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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:12:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
I've always been amused by how easy/hard it is to get ISD to report on an entity or event, where likely=>unlikely does not match the scale of appropriate=>inappropriate. ______________________________
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:31:00 -
[92]
Why waste your time with an elaborate set up? Its just a sad attempt at trying to put your name in the history books at EVE. The past has already shown money is safer in the wallet then "freely given" for some investment opportunity; Eve Investment Bank scandal in 2006, EBANK scam in 2009 and Curzon Dax with his 2009 Christmas scam - invest in him and get his assets when he leaves but instead he just gave it all way for one big last show off. You might actually be able to scam someone out of isk faster by spamming scam-contracts in Jita or make a huge pay off by joining an alliance and working your way to the top where you might actually do something fun before ****ing everyone over disbanding alliance, stealing cap ship assets, and a war just started instead of number crunching theoretical dollars for a game like the kids from South Park. Hell, its just an elaborate way of saying it like Nelson Muntz from the Simpsons - "HA HA!" at the stupidity of the average human.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:44:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
My bet is on over 9000. (I love being clever) ______________________________
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:49:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste I've always been amused by how easy/hard it is to get ISD to report on an entity or event, where likely=>unlikely does not match the scale of appropriate=>inappropriate.
Considering the uber secret USAF connection, expect their next headline to read:
Bank maiden flight aborted or Bank crashes and burns on take off or Bank implodes from friendly fire or This bank has no wings or Bank rockets into oblivion
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 01:59:00 -
[95]
Posting to confirm this ISD group needs to get a new hobby.
Just so I'm clear on how something becomes news:
1. Create character 2. State unoriginal idea, but that you're going to do it better(with no real information as to how you are going to accomplish this) 3. Get login screen news item 4. Profit?
For the record, I will be creating a veldspar mining business which will surpass even that of Chribba's. I can see the headline now: "Extra! Extra! Amarr Citizen to corner veldspar market in a round economy!"
/me waits for a reporter to pick the story up...
-----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.10 02:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 For the record, I will be creating a veldspar mining business which will surpass even that of Chribba's. I can see the headline now: "Extra! Extra! Amarr Citizen to corner veldspar market in a round economy!"
/me waits for a reporter to pick the story up...
I'll take 10b in shares and/or bonds.
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Sazumaan Johnza
Minmatar Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.10 02:54:00 -
[97]
Being a 5 year old char I've built up ISK capital over the years and have invested some of this in DBANK and EBANK.
Total invested was 2.5Bil, representing a relatively small amount of total assets. I invested on a trial basis figuring that it was better to have the isk sitting in the bank than in my wallet. A wrong assumption obviously, as I've lost this entire amount and have learnt some lessons. No doubt I'm not the only one. ;)
Am I bitter? No. All amounts were considered sunk the moment I "invested". Any "interest" received back upon retrieving funds would have been considered a bonus. However, at the time I calculated my chances of some sort of return to be higher than zero. :)
The bottom line is this: There is absolutely NO WAY you are getting my ISK. Why? Because you haven't said anything of substance that would give me even the smallest amount of confidence in your venture, at all, whatsoever.
Make no mistake, with the previous banking failures you have A LOT to live up to.
And you will be watched every step of the way. The hundreds of EVE players that lost ISK from previous so called "banks" will make sure of that.
This is 100% scam in my books, anyone thinking of "investing", be warned.
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Machete Visor
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Posted - 2010.08.10 03:11:00 -
[98]
Originally by: TheBankOfEve
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: TheBankOfEve All members of the bank are responsible people put in a position of trust within the government or companies.
The people running Enron were in a position of trust in a large company. Look how well that turned out.
Enron was run without any real auditing by any major branch of the federal government. EBANK suffered the same effect of being allowed to run without real audits preformed by anyone with knowledge of the banking or financial industry.
I think you are very young. (<30). Enron was audited by a Big 5 accounting firm, with the best reputation in the business. Their federal conviction was thrown out on appeal and they would still be in business today if not for politics.
Anyway, i think banking in eve is a really bad idea. Any uncollateralized superconglomeration of ISK in eve is a bad idea.
If you wanted to really start this up, you would put backing for all deposits with a trusted player (in the form of plex). BTW - that is how real banks earn their trust. They are backed with a reserve system and the FDIC funds.
No one banks based on good intentions or reputation alone. That is silly.
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Deltronious
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.10 03:40:00 -
[99]
Bottom line is this: Until CCP implements some way of legitimizing an eve-bank and making it secure without just trusting you with our money the only people you're going to get to invest in your bank are the naive or stupid. I'm saying nothing about your RL trustworthiness as TBH it has nothing to do with it. Money given to your bank is literally just that - GIVEN. No guarantee it will ever come back. I would probably "invest" a token amount - 5 mil or something and just see how good you are at returning the interest on it for a year or something before trusting you with any larger amount. By that time you've probably given up on the huge time involvement in managing such measly amounts for such a small return that you say to yourself (even if your intentions are honest at this point) "ahh what the hell its a game, I'm just going to take the money and run." - As would I. Dammit I've just spoiled my chances of ever opening an eve-bank of my own.
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Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering Needless Friends
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Posted - 2010.08.10 04:13:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Deltronious Bottom line is this: Until CCP implements some way of legitimizing an eve-bank and making it secure without just trusting you with our money the only people you're going to get to invest in your bank are the naive or stupid.
And you think a RL bank is more secure - you sir are the naive one.
Im opening an account today, need something to place my liquid assets.
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Osihiru
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Posted - 2010.08.10 04:37:00 -
[101]
Hi.
Just as a note. I looked at your website and noticed one major thing missing that is posted on all major banking sites in the world. Well, reputable ones. A prospectus. It outlines the funds held, the quarterly profits, the outstanding loans, the expected dividends, if any, and other such various stuff, in one report, so that investors can make an informed decision. It shows what the company is comprised of in ways that are beneficial to the reader. They are often long and arduous, but a must if you want people to look into them. They are required for all current shareholders.
I work for a major worldwide money management firm, and deal with this all the time. You might consider looking at functioning large banks and see what they do for their shareholders. This will give you some footholds on your growing bank. Posting up to date financial information is key to a success. It is not easy to run a bank, so I applaud you on your endeavor.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:21:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:27:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
/c
Although I assumed this to be the case, the reporter sure did a great job of making it look like you endorsed this or advised in some way.
-----------------/finger I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:33:00 -
[104]
We must protect the public! To the MDmobile.
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Stalking Mantis
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:37:00 -
[105]
Dear Sir, Allow me to introduce myself. I am a corporate banker in real life specialized in the field of Corporate Finance, Project Finance, Structured Finance and Syndicated lending. While I admire the attempt and I am tempted to open an account I see to many holes in this model of a bank (at least from my banking experience. While I am not here to criticize for the sake of criticism I would like to point out a few key elements that need to be taken into consideration:
1-While liquid cash is very important to allow a bank to provide loans to consumers one must bear in mind that if the depositors that you have obligated yourself to pay out a fixed set of interest exceed your borrowing base then you will be forced to pay out of your banks funds to the depositors in order to honor your checking/saving accounts obligations regardless of your ability to generate profit in any said month.
2-In light of the above I have viewed the interest rates you have put up for your checking/savings accounts and when you factor in that you have set a monthly profit for your shareholders bear in mind that these shareholders will also want their profit regardless of your ability to generate profit through loaning in any given month
3-In the case of your lending activities not generating enough profit to cover your obligations to both the depositors and the shareholders what is your business plan?
4-I also noticed a serious lack of set interest rates on your loans and given the monthly obligations I mentioned above do you know what is the minimum interest you need to charge on your loans in order to meet your monthly obligations?
5-Banks rarely find a customer that can provide full collateral to a loan and if they do they expect very low interest rates have these interest rates been factored into 4 above?
6-If you have a lack of customers able to provide full collateral what plans do you have to reduce you lending risk?
7-When such a lack of fully collateralized customers becomes a factor (and it is only a matter time until that happens) how will you negate the risk of default on your liquidity while bearing in mind your obligations in 1 and 2 above?
While I am not mentioning the above to provide ammunition for anyone doubting you I am providing it as something one needs to consider as the basics of basics of banking and this coming from a career banker please accept these simple questions from banker.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:37:00 -
[106]
All it takes is lots of noobs opening accounts with 5M ISK for it to add up.
At the log in screen people see Chribba endorses a bank (I know he didn't, but!), so they throw a few ISk for the lol's. They get to say I invested in Chribba's bank.
I bet the bank is already sitting on multi B's in ISK.
A crappy situation made a 100 times worse because ISD doesn't bother to check their facts before posting.
The OP has already disappeared from the forum. He may of had grand ideas but once he got nailed for the silly idea it was easier to just steal the money.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:43:00 -
[107]
I INVESTED IN CHRIBBABANK; AND NOW IM BORKE! OMG1ONE1ONE1ONE1ELEVEL11!EXCLAMATION!
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.08.10 05:51:00 -
[108]
Quote:
And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank, my statement was a purely suggestive way of what's needed for any bank or public service in order for from my view be able to bulid a steady base.
Now, imagine if you started your bank. I am sure tons of people would trust you.
I can see why you won't be eager to start such a venture though. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.10 06:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: cosmoray
A crappy situation made a 100 times worse because ISD doesn't bother to check their facts before posting.
Indeed. The report makes it sound like they have 10 billion isk in capital rather than 2 bil. Surely only a pedant would complain about their figures being wrong by a factor of five!
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.08.10 06:16:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Originally by: Chribba And apparently my statement was formulated a bit differently than how I expressed myself. So just to clarify, I do not endorse or in any other way affiliate with this bank [...].
Although I assumed this to be the case, the reporter sure did a great job of making it look like you endorsed this or advised in some way.
Aye, that is such a twisting of Chribba's meaning that one wonders if the reporter might be on the take. FBANK... EBANK... DBANK... CBANK, where ISD would, mistakenly, have the C stand for "Chribba Approved". į į
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Stalking Mantis
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.08.10 07:13:00 -
[111]
ISD should modify the news lead as ISD reputation is now on the line.
Speaking of reputations I was for a brief moment considering investing as a shareholder but then again the 1-lack of any solid answers by the OP to questions raised and 2-what seemed like a prolonged argument about the RL credentials of a USAF employee (yes I say employee not officer) had all the tell tale signs of a fail (even of not by intention but by sheer lack of USAF employee experience in banking).
ItĘs a great idea, would love to see banking in Eve work. But then again much has been said to this point already.
[/url] |
SunGod RA
Endless Destruction
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Posted - 2010.08.10 07:47:00 -
[112]
hey
*a battle rages in the background*
hey
*the sound of metal clashing, guttural noises*
hey
*the thick fog takes on a reddish hue*
hey
*as the coppery smell of blood permeates the air*
HEY
*i have fought long and hard but alas*
HEY
*i cannot, will not*
HEY
*surrender, TO MY LAST BREAF I WILL FIGHT THE URGE TO SHIPTOack*
hey i have 17mil can i help?
(o-o-o-o-obligatory)
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Breaker77 Well this has now made the news on the login screen. Even with quotes from Raw23 and Chribba!!
Who wants to take bets on how much ISK he will get before he folds up and walks??
My bet is on over 9000. (I love being clever)
Are you betting over 9000 or are you betting ON over 9000?
The latter is kind of a safe bet seeing as Cista already plopped in a mil, and I put in 0.01 ISK, bringing the total up to over 9000.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.08.10 09:41:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Thoraemond Further question for the OP: what is the nature of the connection between thebankofeve.com and gamerswarchest.com, if any?
Good catch. With the linkfire.us and this one, to an ouside observer dealing with this stuff in RL, this looks more like a (RL) link farming venture than an attempt at an EVE bank. The one guide listed in the "Guides" section of that warchest thingy is clearly no EVE guide ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:03:00 -
[115]
LMAO Julius, EPIC find :)
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:07:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edit 2: Oh hey, look what I found!
Lolwut I already haz dividends?! Sorry you guys all missed the boat. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.08.10 10:10:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Edit 2: Oh hey, look what I found!
Lolwut I already haz dividends?! Sorry you guys all missed the boat.
And I can only guess that the deposit checker truncates decimals, because my 0.1 ISK was never entered into my account (which you can freely view here, by the way).
Also, the master account is viewable here: http://thebankofeve.com/?p=accounts/member/
I was half hoping to find a directory listing there, showing all the .php files...
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Jeeta Ho
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:21:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Jeeta Ho on 10/08/2010 11:24:31
Best laugh I've had in weeks -- noobs piddling away their ISK at "banks" -- and since folks with more ISK than brains are so eager let me throw this fond memory at y'all, just for "ol' times sake":
MADOFF
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:46:00 -
[119]
Wow! Sometimes MD does a really good job!
Nice finds Julius et al!
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.10 11:50:00 -
[120]
As a service to anyone following the link from the news item, I've used my early post (4th reply in the thread) to give a summary of this thread:
Quote:
Since this thread is now linked from the news item and I thought I'd use this post to summarise some of the objections brought up in this thread.
- The website is NOT SECURE. Despite claiming "safe, secure banking", TheBankOfEve has made no effort at all at securing their website. ACCOUNT INFO OF ANY ACCOUNT HOLDER CAN BE VIEWED BY ANYONE (I can't stress that enough), which obviously is a problem. It is likely that the site lacks basic security measures, and perhaps might be vulnerably to malicious attacks.
- No research has been done. TheBankOfEve has shown that no attention at all has been paid to the hurdles previous banks have encountered, and no thought has been given to the reason why all banks have ultimately failed. At one point TheBankOfEve referred to DBANK as if it was still operating (while in fact it had a critical website failure followed by the manager making off with the money one year ago.)
- The business plan of TheBankOfEve is not viable. - From what we've been able to gather, the business plan is very sketchy and not very well thought out. The bank aims to make enough isk to cover the interest by withdrawal fees and partially collateralised loans. Experiences of MD regulars have shown that partially collateralised loans will eventually result in a loss, which is the reason why the industry standard is to require at least 105% collateral. Furthermore, it is expected that the withdrawal fees won't bring in any significant isk; many people will put their isk in the bank and let it accrue interest, making only one or two withdrawals before closing their account many months later. Instead of discussing his business, TheBankOfEve has claimed to be in a position of trust in real life, which is irrelevant as a position of trust in real life (if that's true, it could easily be faked) does not mean one can run a complicated business like a bank in EVE.
- TheBankOfEve has made false claims on who is involved. The claim that respected community member Hexxx (one of the founders of EBANK) "has been consulted and is offering advice on how to run a bank in EVE" has been denied by Hexxx himself: he offered to give advice, but was not contacted since.
- Many characters involved in TheBankOfEve are less than two months old. None had any public dealings before launching this bank. The might easily be run by one person using extended trial accounts (so it costs nothing).
These are the major concerns brought up in this thread. Several smaller ones have been brought up, but I'll leave it to the interested reader to find them.
As an aside, the consensus seems to be that ISD has been reckless and utterly stupid by reporting the launch of The Bank Of Eve as it did. A completely new player with a scrappy - almost non-existent - business plan gets credulously promoted as the up and coming bank without any hard questions being asked, and worse, general quotes from well-known and very respected EVE players get distorted as if they've endorsed this specific new bank.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
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