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Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
807
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:06:00 -
[121] - Quote
Or you could, you know, just go get some tech moons of your own. Resource motivated conflict is a major cause of player driven content creation. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |
None ofthe Above
308
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Posted - 2012.07.27 23:09:00 -
[122] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:Because I'm not allowed to have my own opinion and must do whatever some arrogant internet spaceships big shot tells me am I right? The Mittani can say whatever he likes, I'll say what I like.
I believe we deserve all the tech in the game because we are outright better people than the rest of you. We have the numbers and organization and wealth to take whatever we want, when we want and you can't stop us. If that's a problem for you, do something about it in game, just like we have. Stop whining to the developers because the rest of the game is a room full of jealous kittens all squabbling over their own selfish wants.
What would happen if CCP redistributed tech? Whatever worthless pubbie alliance ends up with a few moons would suddenly find the most organized and efficient military force this game has ever seen showing up on their doorstep. They would chest beat for a few days like they always do. Then they would fall to pieces as each member of the alliance jumps ship to save themselves. As happens every single time we burn a region to the ground. The pubbie is incapable of teaming up effectively. The pubbie is unable to look past his own interests. The pubbie runs away after making sure his "friends" run slower than he does.
Thanks for making me laugh.
I really can't even begin to respond. The levels of irony and sperge are too deep to even start to get into. I guess I'll have to admit that you are your own best counterargument and simply applaud the performance.
Bravo sir. EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
808
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Posted - 2012.07.27 23:15:00 -
[123] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: Thanks for making me laugh.
I really can't even begin to respond. The levels of irony and sperge are too deep to even start to get into. I guess I'll have to admit that you are your own best counterargument and simply applaud the performance.
Bravo sir.
"I don't actually have a counter-argument so here's some high sounding mumbo-jumbo to make it seem like I didn't get dunked."
Just paraphrasing your post a little. Just a little. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:44:00 -
[124] - Quote
And this is the sound of being dunked so hard the backboard breaks. |
None ofthe Above
308
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tarsus Zateki wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: Thanks for making me laugh.
I really can't even begin to respond. The levels of irony and sperge are too deep to even start to get into. I guess I'll have to admit that you are your own best counterargument and simply applaud the performance.
Bravo sir.
"I don't actually have a counter-argument so here's some high sounding mumbo-jumbo to make it seem like I didn't get dunked." Just paraphrasing your post a little. Just a little.
Just a little. :D
But fair enough.
I'll grant you this. I don't have a perfect solution to all this, it is a right fine mess CCP has gotten itself into.
You are quite right that any of these fixes will probably be ripe for exploitation by the Goon Finance team. Between the amassed wealth and their level of competence (which I have a healthy respect for) the rich will likely keep getting richer. Although changes might give other parties a chance to grab a piece of the pie, I've not deluded myself into thinking the Goons, CFC or related parties will curl up into a ball and die out of these changes.
EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
581
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:03:00 -
[126] - Quote
To help my friend, none ofthe above, out. There is some complexity to these moons. Seems like the main stream view of moons and such that CCP sells is a bit different then how the goons see moons. CCP was hoping moons would create conflict mostly. The goons do do conflict, but they also like something else from their moons. I would say the word that fits, but its kind of taboo here in EVE to utter it.
But with this alchemy fix to moons, it satisfies what the devs kind of wanted from tech and moons, the fight and conflict, but it does seem to leave the goons without much future here or no game design for them.
The main problem with the goons though, is that I am at a lost to see how to help them out. Its kind of cool what they want, but its really hard to implement or keep it going here, not really sure what to do with it, plus I just saw it now so its a bit soon.
. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
250
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:
Thanks for making me laugh.
I really can't even begin to respond. The levels of irony and sperge are too deep to even start to get into. I guess I'll have to admit that you are your own best counterargument and simply applaud the performance.
Bravo sir.
I see krixtal is avoiding another ban. |
None ofthe Above
308
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:23:00 -
[128] - Quote
rodyas wrote:To help my friend, none ofthe above, out. There is some complexity to these moons. Seems like the main stream view of moons and such that CCP sells is a bit different then how the goons see moons. CCP was hoping moons would create conflict mostly. The goons do do conflict, but they also like something else from their moons. I would say the word that fits, but its kind of taboo here in EVE to utter it.
But with this alchemy fix to moons, it satisfies what the devs kind of wanted from tech and moons, the fight and conflict, but it does seem to leave the goons without much future here or no game design for them.
The main problem with the goons though, is that I am at a lost to see how to help them out. Its kind of cool what they want, but its really hard to implement or keep it going here, not really sure what to do with it, plus I just saw it now so its a bit soon.
.
Heh what? Are you trolling again or high?
"goons do do conflict" - poetic
"seem to leave the goons without much future here"
Goons will have to adapt, I am sure. Some changes. But they have plenty of resources and probably understand alchemy better than anyone.
You can start writing the eulogy if you like, but I doubt these changes will be the death of goondom.
EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:31:00 -
[129] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: I was simply pointed out The Mittani himself is on record as thinking the concentration was a bad idea. But now GEWNS are here in the forums defending the status quo.
the tech nerf was 100% needed
10:1 tech alchemy, however, appears to be an overnerf that does not create new moons worth fighting over and makes tech still worth mining but not really worth fighting over
I don't even really like the method where tech is left as the bottleneck, I would prefer it be moved to an r64, but that'd be more difficult to jam into a minor patch |
None ofthe Above
309
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:38:00 -
[130] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: I was simply pointed out The Mittani himself is on record as thinking the concentration was a bad idea. But now GEWNS are here in the forums defending the status quo.
the tech nerf was 100% needed 10:1 tech alchemy, however, appears to be an overnerf that does not create new moons worth fighting over and makes tech still worth mining but not really worth fighting over I don't even really like the method where tech is left as the bottleneck, I would prefer it be moved to an r64, but that'd be more difficult to jam into a minor patch
10:1 alchemy does seem to be "spinning the dials and see what happens". CCP has a tendency to overdo things once the get going nerfing something.
I was hoping for something a bit more subtle with alchemy, it being the first step, and something more comprehensive and game changing down the road.
Ah well. EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
581
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:49:00 -
[131] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:rodyas wrote:To help my friend, none ofthe above, out. There is some complexity to these moons. Seems like the main stream view of moons and such that CCP sells is a bit different then how the goons see moons. CCP was hoping moons would create conflict mostly. The goons do do conflict, but they also like something else from their moons. I would say the word that fits, but its kind of taboo here in EVE to utter it.
But with this alchemy fix to moons, it satisfies what the devs kind of wanted from tech and moons, the fight and conflict, but it does seem to leave the goons without much future here or no game design for them.
The main problem with the goons though, is that I am at a lost to see how to help them out. Its kind of cool what they want, but its really hard to implement or keep it going here, not really sure what to do with it, plus I just saw it now so its a bit soon.
. Heh what? Are you trolling again or high? "goons do do conflict" - poetic "seem to leave the goons without much future here" Goons will have to adapt, I am sure. Some changes. But they have plenty of resources and probably understand alchemy better than anyone. You can start writing the eulogy if you like, but I doubt these changes will be the death of goondom.
You forget, my friend, that I never troll, just look like it. Also you came from EVE or for EVE, but the goons did not come from EVE or for EVE. So doing what they want, is always hard to implement. There are ideas, then there are non-EVE ideas, and they are harder to do or implement.
I kind of see what that goon wants with the 64, but good luck with CCP. I would say the best thing to do, is talk to the other tech owners and stuff and people who want to get into tech, and wether they like the alchemy way or the 64 way. Maybe there is a bigger market for it. You guys aren't the only people who own moons, or want them. So it will be hard for CCP just go off of what you want really. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
581
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:58:00 -
[132] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: I was simply pointed out The Mittani himself is on record as thinking the concentration was a bad idea. But now GEWNS are here in the forums defending the status quo.
the tech nerf was 100% needed 10:1 tech alchemy, however, appears to be an overnerf that does not create new moons worth fighting over and makes tech still worth mining but not really worth fighting over I don't even really like the method where tech is left as the bottleneck, I would prefer it be moved to an r64, but that'd be more difficult to jam into a minor patch 10:1 alchemy does seem to be "spinning the dials and see what happens". CCP has a tendency to overdo things once the get going nerfing something. I was hoping for something a bit more subtle with alchemy, it being the first step, and something more comprehensive and game changing down the road. Ah well.
Its hard to do something comprehensive, becuase the need for tech is so basic. Like invention is a simple way to deal with T2BPOs but our need for t2 items is so basic, that is what we are stuck with. I would like to do something more comprehensive with T2BPOs as well as tech, but the general flow of items, or how people need that item too much would have to be different.
I kind of like these changes in tech, becuase it might allow more changes to invention. We will now have tech in a different way then we use to, so all of a sudden, T2 item flow might change. and make invention look really old or simple as well. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:34:00 -
[133] - Quote
So the big reason to not to redistribute moons is because some people have a database of current moons and they don't want to make a new one..... I hope to GOD they are not serious. Talk about afraid of change. I don't scan moons, but if it is truly that bad, ask that it is improved. Ohhhhhh wait, then it will be easy for others to make a database or the database pointless.
Adapt. Nothing wrong with a little unknown. Or does that scare you.
Allocate resources to FiS |
Pipa Porto
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:So the big reason to not to redistribute moons is because some people have a database of current moons and they don't want to make a new one..... I hope to GOD they are not serious. Talk about afraid of change. I don't scan moons, but if it is truly that bad, ask that it is improved. Ohhhhhh wait, then it will be easy for others to make a database or the database pointless.
Adapt. Nothing wrong with a little unknown. Or does that scare you.
Quick, how many Mineable Moons are there in EVE?
A: Around 160,000
Nobody has a complete database of them all. Goonswarm is the closest, and they've been working on it for half a decade now. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:43:00 -
[135] - Quote
I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe. Allocate resources to FiS |
Mallak Azaria
409
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:44:00 -
[136] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe.
A member of the Republic Military School doesn't need to know, but a sov-holding alliance does. Especially the poor people who end up scanning these moons. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1486
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:45:00 -
[137] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:So the big reason to not to redistribute moons is because some people have a database of current moons and they don't want to make a new one..... I hope to GOD they are not serious. Talk about afraid of change. I don't scan moons, but if it is truly that bad, ask that it is improved. Ohhhhhh wait, then it will be easy for others to make a database or the database pointless.
Adapt. Nothing wrong with a little unknown. Or does that scare you.
"i, who have never scanned a moon, have valuable insight on moon scanning" EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Pipa Porto
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:45:00 -
[138] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe.
Yes you do. Every moon is potentially valuable, so every moon would need to be re-scanned. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Mallak Azaria
409
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:48:00 -
[139] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe. Yes you do. Every moon is potentially valuable, so every moon would need to be re-scanned.
Asuming that the mid-grade moon scanning probe was used & taking in to account flight & recording times, how many man-hours would you estimate that it would take to re-scan 160k moons every 3 months? Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
So afraid of unknown. We might not be mining the most profitable moon..... Oh no. I need to know I am playing eve right (by the spreadsheet). Sigh.
And yes I don't scan moons, as I pointed out, But I understand it is painful. So ask for it to be improved. But again I know you don't want that , it will erase the "hard" work previously done. Allocate resources to FiS |
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Pipa Porto
549
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe. Yes you do. Every moon is potentially valuable, so every moon would need to be re-scanned. Asuming that the mid-grade moon scanning probe was used & taking in to account flight & recording times, how many man-hours would you estimate that it would take to re-scan 160k moons every 3 months?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1708944#post1708944
I did a calculation including only flight times between moons. It discounted recording time, discounted the probe time at the end of each system, discounted resupply. Everything but the time it takes to align away, warp, land, align to moon, shot probe.
5300 Man Hours. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Pipa Porto
550
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:55:00 -
[142] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:So afraid of unknown. We might not be mining the most profitable moon..... Oh no. I need to know I am playing eve right (by the spreadsheet). Sigh.
Minimum 5300 Man hours every time it shuffles. And I made enough assumptions that I'd be comfortable quadrupling that to get a reasonable estimate. Then comes moving POSes around. Have you ever set up or taken down a Deathstar POS?
Moon scanning is also necessary to plan your attacks on a new region. So every time someone invades someone else's space that they haven't held before, you have scouts hunting down moons. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1486
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:59:00 -
[143] - Quote
i have another great idea
all sov in the game should drop every three months so ~small alliances~ can get a chance EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:59:00 -
[144] - Quote
Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :) Allocate resources to FiS |
Mallak Azaria
411
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Posted - 2012.07.28 12:59:00 -
[145] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:I never said complete database.
Since they have put work into making one, we should not mess with anything that would nullify this work. Is that what I am hearing?
I don't care if there are 1 million moons, you don't need to know about every moon in the universe. Yes you do. Every moon is potentially valuable, so every moon would need to be re-scanned. Asuming that the mid-grade moon scanning probe was used & taking in to account flight & recording times, how many man-hours would you estimate that it would take to re-scan 160k moons every 3 months? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1708944#post1708944I did a calculation including only flight times between moons. It discounted recording time, discounted the probe time at the end of each system, discounted resupply. Everything but the time it takes to align away, warp, land, align to moon, shot probe. 5300 Man Hours.
Somewhere beween 7 & 8 months.
Rotating moons every 3 months is clearly a great idea. It definately wouldn't give huge coalitions a reason to hold every single moon in the game, just in case. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:01:00 -
[146] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:i have another great idea
all sov in the game should drop every three months so ~small alliances~ can get a chance
Wow never thought I would hear a goon suggest such a wonderful idea..... LOL
Now, where did I say a redistribution needs to be done every 3 months? Allocate resources to FiS |
Mallak Azaria
411
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:02:00 -
[147] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :)
Your suggested change would effectively cripple small alliances & just give the large ones another reason to hold a monopoly on everything. The idea is literally as stupid as the "Capital BPO's shouldn't be allowed to be copied so small alliances will stand a chance" idea that someone came up with last week. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Pipa Porto
550
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:18:00 -
[148] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :)
Why is it better to randomly redistribute the bottleneck product than to fix the bottleneck. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety. GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:24:00 -
[150] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :) The suggested change of rotating moons every 3 months would effectively cripple small alliances & just give the large ones another reason to hold a monopoly on everything. The idea is literally as stupid as the "Capital BPO's shouldn't be allowed to be copied so small alliances will stand a chance" idea that someone came up with last week. Wait, what.
How expensive is a Moros BPO nowadays? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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