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Pipa Porto
550
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:25:00 -
[151] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety.
That's an awfully small constellation.
There are plenty of systems with ~80 moons. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:27:00 -
[152] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety.
Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Allocate resources to FiS |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
:lowsec: GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1487
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:28:00 -
[154] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :) Why is it better to randomly redistribute the bottleneck product than to fix the bottleneck.
because publords think that they will get a chance at a personal tech moon EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Pipa Porto
550
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:28:00 -
[155] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:Phill Esteen wrote:Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety. Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved.
Got an idea for how to improve it? EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Got an idea for how to improve it? Remove it, put moon resources into the database dump instead.
After that no-one will be permitted to complain about null-sec being stagnant.
GÇô postum faex est GÇô-á
never forget
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Pipa Porto
550
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:36:00 -
[157] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Got an idea for how to improve it? Remove it, put moon resources into the database dump instead. After that no-one will be permitted to complain about null-sec being stagnant.
I think that's a terrible idea from a lore perspective, but a wonderful idea from a humanitarian perspective. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1487
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:41:00 -
[158] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Phill Esteen wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Got an idea for how to improve it? Remove it, put moon resources into the database dump instead. After that no-one will be permitted to complain about null-sec being stagnant. I think that's a terrible idea from a lore perspective, but a wonderful idea from a humanitarian perspective.
moon scanning is tedious, but not a huge PITA otherwise
however, whoever designed POS management should face charges for crimes against humanity EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Mallak Azaria
412
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:47:00 -
[159] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Again, just cause you want to know about every moon, doesn't mean you need to know about every moon. These numbers are meaningless and at best spread across all of null/low sec.
But again, there is the fear factor of the unknown. Null sec is running scared :) The suggested change of rotating moons every 3 months would effectively cripple small alliances & just give the large ones another reason to hold a monopoly on everything. The idea is literally as stupid as the "Capital BPO's shouldn't be allowed to be copied so small alliances will stand a chance" idea that someone came up with last week. Wait, what. How expensive is a Moros BPO nowadays?
Not too expensive, but it was more the context of the change. He basically wanted it so only BPO's could be used to produce any capital ship, module or component & only allow 1 run to be set, meaning manual input for say, 120 capital armour plate runs. Doesn't really affect established alliances, but would affect small not-so-organised alliances. I will try to find the thread. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:49:00 -
[160] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Not too expensive, but it was more the context of the change. He basically wanted it so only BPO's could be used to produce any capital ship, module or component & only allow 1 run to be set, meaning manual input for say, 120 capital armour plate runs. Doesn't really affect established alliances, but would affect small not-so-organised alliances. I will try to find the thread. Uh.
So all the supercap producers will harm themselves? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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Mallak Azaria
412
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:56:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Not too expensive, but it was more the context of the change. He basically wanted it so only BPO's could be used to produce any capital ship, module or component & only allow 1 run to be set, meaning manual input for say, 120 capital armour plate runs. Doesn't really affect established alliances, but would affect small not-so-organised alliances. I will try to find the thread. Uh. So all the supercap producers will harm themselves?
Probably not any less than POS refuellers currently do. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Big Bossu
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:56:00 -
[162] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:So afraid of unknown. We might not be mining the most profitable moon..... Oh no. I need to know I am playing eve right (by the spreadsheet). Sigh. Minimum 5300 Man hours every time it shuffles. And I made enough assumptions that I'd be comfortable quadrupling that to get a reasonable estimate. Then comes moving POSes around. Have you ever set up or taken down a Deathstar POS? Moon scanning is also necessary to plan your attacks on a new region. So every time someone invades someone else's space that they haven't held before, you have scouts hunting down moons.
0.0 Region has like average of 80 systems. 40 moons is roughly average per system. That would take roughly 2 hours per system. Seeing how large 0.0 alliances are, this really isn't that much effort. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:57:00 -
[163] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Phill Esteen wrote:Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety. Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Got an idea for how to improve it?
Well allow people to scan moons faster seems to be the solution. I keep hearing how long it takes. So allow scanning of multiple moons (by planet, system or constellation for instance). Or perhaps have special probes, consumed on use, which allows scan from anywhere in the system. Speeding up scanning should be easy.
But I should not be the one to improve the system. But the arguments I hear against redistribution just seem weak at best. Yours was actually the best i heard, just plainly asking what would it fix. And, I don't think it is the end all, be all, of a solution, but could be part of the solution. Makes it more challenging to control vast portions of the high value resources. I believe there should be economic reasons to help incite conflict, but we have seen highly concentrated high value resources can lead to its own issues.
Allocate resources to FiS |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1490
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:09:00 -
[164] - Quote
Big Bossu wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:So afraid of unknown. We might not be mining the most profitable moon..... Oh no. I need to know I am playing eve right (by the spreadsheet). Sigh. Minimum 5300 Man hours every time it shuffles. And I made enough assumptions that I'd be comfortable quadrupling that to get a reasonable estimate. Then comes moving POSes around. Have you ever set up or taken down a Deathstar POS? Moon scanning is also necessary to plan your attacks on a new region. So every time someone invades someone else's space that they haven't held before, you have scouts hunting down moons. 0.0 Region has like average of 80 systems. 40 moons is roughly average per system. That would take roughly 2 hours per system. Seeing how large 0.0 alliances are, this really isn't that much effort.
yeah because every character in a given 0.0 alliance is an individual player EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1490
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:Phill Esteen wrote:Many years ago I scanned one constellation for moon materials, probably less than 150 moons in total.
I was only deinstitutionalized very recently and I am still kept under close supervision for my own safety. Sounds like moon scanning needs to be improved. Got an idea for how to improve it? Well allow people to scan moons faster seems to be the solution. I keep hearing how long it takes. So allow scanning of multiple moons (by planet, system or constellation for instance). Or perhaps have special probes, consumed on use, which allows scan from anywhere in the system. Speeding up scanning should be easy. But I should not be the one to improve the system. But the arguments I hear against redistribution just seem weak at best. Yours was actually the best i heard, just plainly asking what would it fix. And, I don't think it is the end all, be all, of a solution, but could be part of the solution. Makes it more challenging to control vast portions of the high value resources. I believe there should be economic reasons to help incite conflict, but we have seen highly concentrated high value resources can lead to its own issues.
give me a good argument for redistributiom EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Mallak Azaria
415
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:19:00 -
[166] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:give me a good argument for redistributiom
Oh wait, I can answer this one! Because small alliances.. Wait, no... Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:21:00 -
[167] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote: ... give me a good argument for redistributiom
Goons, you have proven it's a bad idea to concentrate them.
LOL
But serious, I think if you read my post you may find a few reasons. And I still see fear of unknown as your sole reason against it. As I am sure we can speed up the process.
Allocate resources to FiS |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1491
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:27:00 -
[168] - Quote
Lady Zarrina wrote: But serious, I think if you read my post you may find a few reasons. And I still see fear of unknown as your sole reason against it. As I am sure we can speed up the process.
i meant a good reason
forgive me if it wasn't clear enough EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Big Bossu
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2012.07.28 15:16:00 -
[169] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Big Bossu wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Lady Zarrina wrote:So afraid of unknown. We might not be mining the most profitable moon..... Oh no. I need to know I am playing eve right (by the spreadsheet). Sigh. Minimum 5300 Man hours every time it shuffles. And I made enough assumptions that I'd be comfortable quadrupling that to get a reasonable estimate. Then comes moving POSes around. Have you ever set up or taken down a Deathstar POS? Moon scanning is also necessary to plan your attacks on a new region. So every time someone invades someone else's space that they haven't held before, you have scouts hunting down moons. 0.0 Region has like average of 80 systems. 40 moons is roughly average per system. That would take roughly 2 hours per system. Seeing how large 0.0 alliances are, this really isn't that much effort. yeah because every character in a given 0.0 alliance is an individual player
Just going to point out that to scan a moon, you probably need less than 24h of training. Probably even less, if you optimize alt background and school. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
272
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 15:56:00 -
[170] - Quote
Big Bossu wrote: Just going to point out that to scan a moon, you probably need less than 24h of training. Probably even less, if you optimize alt background and school.
you also need a knife-proof computer as you'll try to stab it after enough moonscanning |
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:02:00 -
[171] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:give me a good argument for redistributiom Oh wait, I can answer this one! Because small bad alliances.. Wait, no...
Here, I fixed it for u.
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Mallak Azaria
449
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:31:00 -
[172] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:give me a good argument for redistributiom Oh wait, I can answer this one! Because small bad alliances.. Wait, no... Here, I fixed it for u.
You can't fix something that isn't broken... Unless it's of Minmatar design. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Pipa Porto
553
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Posted - 2012.07.28 17:46:00 -
[173] - Quote
Big Bossu wrote:Just going to point out that to scan a moon, you probably need less than 24h of training. Probably even less, if you optimize alt background and school.
To build Supercaps, you need about 2 weeks of training.
Just like with building Supers, SP is not the bottleneck for Moon Scanning.
Also:
Quote:optimize alt background and school EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dendrin Koljn
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.29 11:43:00 -
[174] - Quote
well from someone who knows nothing about moongoo etc,
I would have thought having most moons grouped is a detriment to the basic point of the game - which is a dynamic, everchanging sandbox - if something can allow territory control to be almost permanent compared to the control time of other territories then theres a problem.
Having finite moons which respawn randomly, would i believe, increse fights for control of these areas, BUT the time invested in this would be a detriment to the player control of when, where an who to attack.
So keep to them permanent seems a better fit.
Spread them out across ALL regions, high, low and null -
high sec moons - there for show only (and for learning to scan em i suppose) and as primary Incursion Targets.
Low sec moons - FW systems....small amounts of moon stuff as drops/rewards for taking/holding those systems - but not enuf so other systems get ignored, Poss add to Incursion list.
Pirate Space moons - Rentable by corps only (non alliance) - min standings AND minimum member count - corp is part of the Pirate Faction Alliance - with the standings/sec to match.
Null sec moons - Add them to the Incursion lists.. takes a set amount of time after an incursion for the moon to be minable again.
You could also add an Alliance Capital System system to the game, adds defense bonus and stuff to controled territory (bonus decreases with distance), AND the further away a moon is the less material is collected....upto the point where if (example only) any moon over 100 jumps from the capital produces nothing as the logistic costs are too high to make it profitable - ALLIANCES should also have to keep the millions of Non-capsuleers fed and housed (just as a weak justification)
thank you for your time. and its only rough ideas.....i really havnt thought it thru
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