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skitso juggalo
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Posted - 2010.08.16 07:17:00 -
[1]
I was thinking it would be cool when u target a ship u could target certan parts EXT. (engines,brige,wepons,ect) like if u shoot and destroy ther wepons they dont work or shoot ther engine they cant move and brige ther dead but ther ship is not . but i propose this idea as a type of sub targeting for battles mostly for capital ships but able to do to smaller ones to. and it may be helpful for war and piracy
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Eruanno Alcon
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Posted - 2010.08.16 07:34:00 -
[2]
Cool idea, but learn to spell.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.08.16 07:35:00 -
[3]
Eve Search is your friend.
This idea has been brought up from time to time. Players like the idea, the Devs like the idea. And each time the same 2 [semi-related] problems crop up: the technical feasibility of coding it in (it would be a monstrous task) and lag that would result from the server receiving, sending, and calculating more variables than it currently does. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
skitso juggalo
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Posted - 2010.08.16 07:35:00 -
[4]
"exuse the spelling"
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Eruanno Alcon
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Posted - 2010.08.16 07:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: skitso juggalo "exuse the spelling"
Excused.
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Val MeR
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.21 09:11:00 -
[6]
Just a few more variables will do...
You either target the ship (Shields/Armor/Hull) or Modules (MWD, Autocanon, etc)... The damage could only be taken by one group, hence if you are shooting at mwd - ships shields/armor/structure will not take damage... The only catch is - the amount of Shields/Armor/Structure must be a multiplier for modules HP! So it would be very hard to disable a module on a ship with 100% shield and armor...
But that, opens up a possibility, for example, of targeting defensive modules to get advantage in destroying a ship...
Here they come - repair crews and marines ;) haha...
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Val MeR
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.21 09:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Val MeR on 21/08/2010 09:16:23 Edited by: Val MeR on 21/08/2010 09:15:53
Originally by: ShahFluffers Eve Search is your friend.
This idea has been brought up from time to time. Players like the idea, the Devs like the idea. And each time the same 2 [semi-related] problems crop up: the technical feasibility of coding it in (it would be a monstrous task) and lag that would result from the server receiving, sending, and calculating more variables than it currently does.
Damage to the modules is already calculated via overheating... so part of the job is already done. I mean they do have hitpoints... or heat points...
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.08.21 13:15:00 -
[8]
1 - if shields are up you cant damage the modules since they are inside the shield so shield tanking ships would have a clear advantage. 2 - modules would have MUCH smaller signature radius meaning they will be very hard to hit
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Val MeR
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.21 13:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Val MeR on 21/08/2010 13:38:19
Originally by: 1600 RT 1 - if shields are up you cant damage the modules since they are inside the shield so shield tanking ships would have a clear advantage. 2 - modules would have MUCH smaller signature radius meaning they will be very hard to hit
1 If you have a multiplier coefficient of shields/armor/structure applied to a module hitpoints... that could take care of that.
2 Yeahh... good thing
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Marak Mocam
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Posted - 2010.08.21 19:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: 1600 RT 1 - if shields are up you cant damage the modules since they are inside the shield so shield tanking ships would have a clear advantage. 2 - modules would have MUCH smaller signature radius meaning they will be very hard to hit
^
To shoot them should require being in structure or you eliminate armor tanking as a viable solution and armor tanked ships are a rather large chunk of the ships used in the game -- many of them can't fit decent shield tanks at all.
Also:
- Is it targeting components or targeting the component system? -- 8 guns, shooting them 1 at a time or just "shoot at the guns"?
- Does it require a lock timer AFTER being in structure or when initially acquiring the target or can you just decide to target components at any time during the fight with no penalty for changing what you're aiming at?
- What about the components HP? They are designed for heat damage right now but what about being shot? 1 "big gun" does a hell of a lot of damage compared to that 40hp of the component.
Either the HP would have to go up or the damage scaled down. If neither then everyone would need to target components when hitting structure so a "trivial" bleed-through could actually hurt the ship vs ping structure.
Lots of little things to look at.
(how about making the pod a targetable component -- now you can podkill while they fly their ship and leave the ship intact... Beats the hell out of salvaging and looting wrecks.)
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Val MeR
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.22 00:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Marak Mocam
Originally by: 1600 RT 1 - if shields are up you cant damage the modules since they are inside the shield so shield tanking ships would have a clear advantage. 2 - modules would have MUCH smaller signature radius meaning they will be very hard to hit
^
To shoot them should require being in structure or you eliminate armor tanking as a viable solution and armor tanked ships are a rather large chunk of the ships used in the game -- many of them can't fit decent shield tanks at all.
Also:
- Is it targeting components or targeting the component system? -- 8 guns, shooting them 1 at a time or just "shoot at the guns"?
- Does it require a lock timer AFTER being in structure or when initially acquiring the target or can you just decide to target components at any time during the fight with no penalty for changing what you're aiming at?
- What about the components HP? They are designed for heat damage right now but what about being shot? 1 "big gun" does a hell of a lot of damage compared to that 40hp of the component.
Either the HP would have to go up or the damage scaled down. If neither then everyone would need to target components when hitting structure so a "trivial" bleed-through could actually hurt the ship vs ping structure.
Lots of little things to look at.
(how about making the pod a targetable component -- now you can podkill while they fly their ship and leave the ship intact... Beats the hell out of salvaging and looting wrecks.)
No, if you require ship to be in structure before you can target and shoot modules, the whole idea will be pointlessą well not entirely, but it will be like defender missilesą people could use it out of interest, but would prefer to just finish off what is left of the structure.
One, should be able to target and shoot the modules from the start, when ship has no damage at allą lets just start from simple mode and improve on that. Here is my proposal.
Lets say you have a ship with 28 000 ehp. Everything is in there shields, armor, structure, resistsą even modules that contribute to overall ehp. Your ship has 8 hi-slots, 4 med-slots and 7 low slots. Base speed of 220 ms and sig radius of 150 m.
First thing first ū your modules one by one are more prone to blow up (since obviously damage will be focused) so I propose that from the start (no skills no modules), you can only target a rack of modules (hi, med, low). Later on you could target a single module with use of some special equipmentą ship scanner or auto targeting system comes to mind first(underused modules in game anywayą now they have a purpose)!
So you have a choice to either shoot the ship ū taking out its defenses, or target modulesą Lets target weapons. ThatĘs hi slot. You would need (8*(14000/19) = to take out 5895 hp to kill off the high slotą before you start saying thatĘs too easy ū read on.
A little explanation is needed to this math. 8 high slot modules multiplied by (half of the total ehp <-- that could be adjusted to lets say full ehpą /divided by number of modules)ą
Lets remember no damage is taken by shields or armor at the same time only by modules in high slot, but there is a catchą the sig radius of all 8 modules will be just a fraction of ships total sig radius (thatĘs 31 m or 21% of total sigą I just allocated 50% to all modules and 50% to ship itselfą could be done more precise with mass and all), thus making it harder to target initially and taking less damage when hit uponą. Plus ships speed will also be taken into account so you would have to hit a 31 m sig moving even at 220 ms with almost 6000 ehpą if it gets down
As IĘve said thatĘs the simplistic model of how it could work and sure can be improved uponą
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Val MeR
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.22 00:56:00 -
[12]
So if you destroyed a shield extender ū the overall ehp will suffer and it will be easier to kill off other modulesą Like wise with shields/armor/structure the lower they are, the easier its to blow up modules.
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Mecha Polcha
Cause of Crisis
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Posted - 2010.08.25 12:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mecha Polcha on 25/08/2010 12:35:28 Problem is that unlike a POS, all the ships modules are protected by the shield and armor... You'd have to knock those out before you could reach the mods with your weapons. That's why you can keep firing and tanking while you're taking damage.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster
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Posted - 2010.08.25 14:46:00 -
[14]
A simpler solution would be adding a better general hit point system to installed modules and rigs etc..
Then making these able to have different vulnerabilities and resistances. This would potentially make it worth using a more varied types of ammos setup.
The module should just be forced offline ofc, and not destroyed. Might want a "forced/overheating" onlining option but then if the emergency healed module is shot to zero again it should be destroyed.
Such mechanics would be interesting to see how they would shift battles and create new and novel fitting strategies..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams. |
Weena Mercator
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Posted - 2010.08.25 17:26:00 -
[15]
STO did it.
Of course, only certain types of ships and crew can target subsystems.
And all it does is temporarily reduce the effectiveness.
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James Vayne
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Posted - 2010.08.25 18:38:00 -
[16]
To do that a ships shields would have to be cellular in design. a front, sides and aft shield layout. To get to the modules in question you'd have to get through the after shields first and then be able start shooting at the module in question
As it stands a ships shielding is all-encompassing and so in order to reach the module of your choice, you'd have to take out shields first. And once you come across the first epicly fitted shield tanker, your dreams of taking out his WMD will surely die along with your ship.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.08.25 19:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 25/08/2010 19:56:25 Several problems this faces is internal modules such as Cap/Sheild Boosters, Reppers, Hardeners and Damage Mods. Even if these Mods are not targetable that leaves RR, Nuet/NOS, Smartbombs, ECM/ECCM/EWAR and a host of other modules that have no specific place on a ship.
Also the amount of effort targeting several modules on a ship that appears as a small target 10km away is difficult enough. You would need a sub menu just to select the target. Then there is the sive of the Mod it's self it's so small on a moving target you probably will just miss and hit other parts of the ship.
Also take into account size a general scram, webber, hardener will always have the same ammount of HP in a quick Frigate fight I would expect the frigate to try to take out these mods, if they did it to a Battleship / Battlecruiser they could take half the ship offline in seconds. Also every PVE ship would take out the Scram and run making solo PVP a dream.
This is if sheilds did not stop modules goin offline as they should, it would end armour tanking. If you had to get through armour, people would rather blitz structure.
A nice idea but not do able without massive changes to the games overveiw for easy access to new targets, ship design to show where modules are, a redue of Mod size vs ship size, changes to the tanking systems and not breaking the game for solo PVP'ers
Lets have them fix Lag, our overviews, balence the existing ships/weapons and complete the CSM suggestion list before we even think about impementing this. Because it is about 2 years worth of coding.
-- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
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