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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.08.25 17:15:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Razar51 when stuff is removed from game, there is usually quite a bit of warning, and u very rarely if ever get isk compensation. So, sorry to say, but tough luck, i had to buy them too way back when
I know that for removed pos modules u could sell them back to npc, but skills dont work the same way
is ultimately up to ccp, but i wouldnt count on an isk refund for skillbooks
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.08.26 20:06:00 -
[32]
another bump to the front
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Morcam
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Posted - 2010.08.26 20:15:00 -
[33]
I can't say I understand people who want to keep learning skills on the basis that they allow you to waste time now to save time later. That's a nice idea, being able to invest in something so it pays off later, but skills are not the place to do that, and the current learning skills are just a speed bump. It's a nice idea that leaning skills are optional, but in realistic gameplay, they simply aren't. You either have to train them, or you will fall behind the other players for reasons that are completely pointless.
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Teck Nine
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Posted - 2010.08.26 21:26:00 -
[34]
Now that I've trained a couple basic learning skills to level 4 and couple advance learning skills to level 3 I have to say that I do not want the learning skills to be taken away. They saved me days of having to train a skill to the next level. I say leave the learning skills in the game. If people chose not to train them then let it show.
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Cyniac
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Posted - 2010.08.27 13:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Razar51 Edited by: Razar51 on 20/08/2010 01:16:36 CCP wishes they could remove them [Referring to learning skills]
I must have missed it - could you please provide a reference to backup this statement?
I've seen several comments where CCP mentions they wish to do address the issue of learning skills, however this is not identical to saying they should be removed.
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.08.27 16:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Razar51
(remove/never created, whatever u want to say)
^^this
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Cyniac
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Posted - 2010.08.27 16:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Razar51
Originally by: Razar51
(remove/never created, whatever u want to say)
^^this
Sorry I might not have been clear enough - this remains your statement - not that of CCP. Could you direct me to the CCP statement on which you base your assumptions please?
I've heard and followed through on some CCP statements in this matter but I've not yet seen one to this effect, though I happily admit I don't have an encyclopeadic knowledge of CCP statements!
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Scoundrelus
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2010.08.28 15:03:00 -
[38]
So I would get the 1.8 mil SP I put into learning and be able to distribute it as I pleased?
/signed
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2010.08.28 19:49:00 -
[39]
Signed, all my 3 chars got lvl 5's in all learning skills already but it was so annoying to train them up.
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.08.30 03:00:00 -
[40]
bump
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Portmanteau
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Posted - 2010.08.31 03:53:00 -
[41]
very much /signed. I nearly quit from boredom when I had to train these pointless timesinks early in the game just to stay competetive, unlike some other bitter knob heads, I'd rather no other new players ever had to go thru that mind numbing garbage in what should be their "honey moon" period in this game. It's in CCP's interests to do this really, learning skills are about the worst ever idea they had regards the new player experience, I wonder how many it has actually caused to not re-sub after the first month or two ?
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.09.01 17:33:00 -
[42]
bump
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Ronald Raygunn
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Posted - 2010.09.04 14:54:00 -
[43]
I am kinda loath to feed the troll and kick this back up to the top of page one, but I must post my findings on the matter...
Started a new character about a week ago, last Wednesday, I believe it was, to test this whole Learning Curve thing that everyone is STILL complaining about. In that time I have trained all Tier 1 Learning Skills to 4, with Learning itself at 5. Tier 3 Learning skills are currently at 3 and 4, its a half and half right now. (Charisma doesn't really count, short of diplo skills and such, so I have left them out for the time being.) I have also trained afterburners to 3, frigate to 3, Cybernetics to 3, Hull Upgrades and Repair Systems to 3...are you seeing where I am going with this? There can be a nice mixture of skills that advance you in learning as well as in more functional roles such as flying your ship fast, repairing the damage to your ship, dealing damage, etc. The learning skills are NOT slowing me down.
Now throw in the 100% bonus to skill point learning up to 1.6 million sp. I don't think the people in the camp of removing learning skills realize how much of a boon this is. To train a Tier 1 learning skill (or any other Tier 1 skill, for that matter) to level 5 takes about 2 and a half days. Since I am sitting at about 700k sp right now, I still have 900k sp to go before the bonus is removed. I can essentially train all my learning skills to 5/4 in this window and henceforth train as fast (implants not withstanding) as my 2 yr old toon. For a beginner toon, that is mind-blowing for those with the perception to realize what it means. In two weeks, all training skills can be taken care of and done, leaving the gargantuan task of training every other GD skill in this game, and done so efficiently.
In the end, CCP has given new characters all the tools they need to ensure they are getting the most bang for their sp buck in record time. With the bonus AND with the choice in the beginning of the game to pick and choose where you want your sp to go and what skills you want to train, I'd wager that I am better off now than I was two years when I first started playing the game and many beginning skills were chosen for me. Being able to throw skills in the mix that help me run missions is a plus as well, and has not been detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. Honestly, knowing that all my learning skills are almost done and the benefits I recieve from training them up has been a relief to me. It's actually the most fun I have had playing this game in recent memory.
I understand what you are saying about making the attributes reflect learning skill training without actually having to train them or have them in the game. You have to realize that many, MANY players before you have trained them up because they recognized the value of them. Essentially, they, as you so eloquently put it, "wasted" time training these skills and there is no way to compensate them for that, even if you give them an appropriate amount of SP. It sounds pretty harsh, but having experienced what a new player would experience in making a new character, I really have to say that one just has to suck it up and accept the learning skills for what they are...slightly annoying but otherwise a quick process that will aid your character's training for the length of time that you play the game.
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.09.07 14:09:00 -
[44]
bump
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.09.09 20:34:00 -
[45]
bump for more discussion
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Rise Of Man
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Posted - 2010.09.10 01:27:00 -
[46]
No. A very bad idea. Learning skills are not a problem.
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.09.10 01:56:00 -
[47]
Learning skils are pretty simple. Train them or don't. They aren't even close to required to play the game. Not really seeing the problem.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Mansion of maniacal experiments Outer Heaven
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Posted - 2010.09.10 07:20:00 -
[48]
Supported. Remove the learning skills, they are bad.
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Razar51
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Posted - 2010.09.13 17:30:00 -
[49]
opinions seem pretty mixed on this topic, for those that are for or against it, could you please explain exactly why you are against it
do you feel that training learning skills is part of the eve experience and helps to teach new players better time management?
or do you feel training learning skills deters new players from playing the game and helps(someone is probably going to challenge my word choice there) keep older players ahead of the newer players longer?
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Calgura
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.13 19:23:00 -
[50]
I will *****, moan, whine, complaing, and probably bomb CCP (where the hell is Iceland?!?!?!????) if they remove my Learning skills.
Why? Because I spent months training them, and now some newbie who doesn't take ANY grinds in Eve automatically gets them at the same level as me? I spent time training them, why shouldn't I train faster than someone who stuck with the 4/4 or 5/4 routine? Sure, it'll take YEARS for me to get a return on my training investment, but isn't that my decision to make?!?
I could probably accept this if the people who actually spent the time training them to level 5 got a +1 free on all the stats where they've done 5/5 (if Learning 5 as well of course), or similar, since I could've enjoyed myself a lot more if I hadn't done the training of Presence to level 5 (let's not mention my perfect skills in Leadership and Trading... And corp management, shall we?).
P.S. I trained all Learning skills to 5 while I was taking a minor break from Eve to play WoW with the GF for a few months, so I don't really care.
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