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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:07:00 -
[1]
Everyone has heard the saying in the title. It is definitely in the top 5 rules of EVE. But there is room for interpretation in it.
I have a friend who flies ships which he could only rebuy once or maybe twice before being out of isk. He thinks he is sticking to the "rule", but I don't think he is - he can't long term sustain those ships if he takes more than a couple of losses.
Conversely, I have tens of billions of isk but I'm still leery about flying T2 cruisers. Back when I had "only" hundreds of millions of isk, only T1 fitted T1 cruisers would do in anything but a low-risk pvp situation.
Where do you draw the line? How affordable is affordable enough to be lost?
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Gashblight
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:12:00 -
[2]
If you don't need it to make your money it's expendable. Stock piling billions to fly BS and below is not needed. As long as you can afford to replace your next ship or 3 your good to go imho.
just my 2 cents
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Mordinn
The Bones Brigade
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:17:00 -
[3]
I think your friend is doing it the right way. Those expensive ships are part of what makes PvP interesting.
Fly the ship like you have only one. It makes the eventual loss that much more of an event and it might even make you a better pilot by the challenge of keeping your ship intact.
It's relatively cheap to field baseline ships, so fly an expensive ship once or twice and you can still get back into the PvP thing after in the cheaper ships. If you're in the position of buying those ships, then most likely you know how to earn the ISK to get back into good cheap ships quickly.
---
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gashblight As long as you can afford to replace your next ship or 3 your good to go imho.
pretty much this. I have a few ships that I probably couldn't afford to replace immediately if I lost (although would still we willing to use them, if needed) but that's what ratting/plexing is for. As long as I have a few cruiser/bc/bs to jump into and get back into a fight, that's all I need. .
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:23:00 -
[5]
I think you should fly something that will make your blood pump.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:23:00 -
[6]
I almost exclusively lose, so I have a different take on this rule. I buy and fit ships, I have a hangar or three full of fit ships. I consider them lost already, my wallet is purely what I can buy now, I don't think about replacement. =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Malaclypse Muscaria on 20/08/2010 23:25:05 It's in the eye of the beholder... as with other simplistic rules-of-thumb, ultimately it comes down to how you define the terms, in this case what you personally define as "affordable", and your own particular means / ease / savvy / time / willingness to grind and make more ISK to replace losses. As well as your own subjective comfort zone with your savings, and your own aversion to risk.
In other words, take it as a "rough guideline", not a "rule".
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Gashblight
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gashblight on 20/08/2010 23:24:35 dp
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:39:00 -
[9]
I've not stockpiled more than a few billion isk since I left the napsec scene. If you're in lowsec you more than likely have the ability to gtfo (assuming you fly smart and you're in a bc or smaller hull), so losses aren't as definite a thing as in nullsec unless you're actively warring with someone and going into battles you know will cause serious losses. I also have an alt or two to make bread if I go totally broke (hasn't happened in months, but it does happen from time to time).
I don't really pay attention to price as much as I do how my ship will be viewed by a potential target. If you roam lowsec with a t3 or an expensive t2 ship you're not likely to find any small engagements, just blobs that want your killmail. I usually fly cheap hulls (cyclone, cane, drake, brutix, and a few cruisers) just because it prompts a lot of people to engage with what they assume to be a vastly superior ship.
TLDR: Fly fast and smart and price isn't as big an issue. If you're getting into more attrition than just hunting, you need to base what you fly on your income rather than your stockpile because eventually you will go bankrupt.
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:47:00 -
[10]
I have 50 mil in my wallet and flying a T2 cruiser for PVP if i lose my ship i'll be ratting for a couple hours to buy the T2 cruiser again Any T2 cruiser is ideal for PVP for me, can't change that whether I'm rich or poor
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Jypsie
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:48:00 -
[11]
Total est. Value of ship < 20% liquid ISK
Roughly.
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Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:05:00 -
[12]
Compared to the cost replacing the stuff inside my head the cost of replacing the ship is negligible. So I fly whatever ship the fc asks me to.
I take it the OP would need hundreds of billions in his wallet before he would undock with a set of expensive implants.
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:06:00 -
[13]
Edited by: omgfreemoniez on 21/08/2010 00:08:26 What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards.
Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs"
Any tips on getting over this?
EDIT: I realise I take the Internet Spaceships far too seriously, and in fact consider them Serious Business
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards.
Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs"
Any tips on getting over this?
so, on the off-chance this isn't a troll-post, you mean apart from the obligatory "HTFU" and "it's just a game"?
I get annoyed at my own stupidity when I lose a ship and that moment passes quickly. If you get emotionally hurt by losing any kind of pixels in any kind of game, then i refer you again to paragraph one of my post. .
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards.
Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs"
Any tips on getting over this?
Sounds like you need some prescription drugs to manage your emotional state for when you play then. Not logging in for 3 days with a constant barrage of 'what ifs' going through your head over a t1 cruiser loss sounds kinda unhealthy.
Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.
Originally by: CCP Adida Moved from missions and complexes. All other game discussions are only aloud in OOP.
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: omgfreemoniez What about emotionally? I feel that losing a T2 cruiser would really, really, REALLY hurt, even if I could buy 100 more afterwards.
Last time I lost a T1 cruiser I was so ****ed off I didnt log in for 3 days and I couldnt think of anything else but "what ifs"
Any tips on getting over this?
so, on the off-chance this isn't a troll-post, you mean apart from the obligatory "HTFU" and "it's just a game"?
I get annoyed at my own stupidity when I lose a ship and that moment passes quickly. If you get emotionally hurt by losing any kind of pixels in any kind of game, then i refer you again to paragraph one of my post.
It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it. Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say).
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aetherguy881
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:27:00 -
[17]
I guess the quote can be reworded to "Don't fly what you're not willing to lose."
I usually scale it to what my income happens to be at the time. However I'm sporadic when I buy stuff sometimes... ------------------- Always remember this about EVE:
Life is cheap, or 15 bucks a month. |
Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of your killboard stats.
kb stats? Ignore them and find the cherry in the fun of the pew-pew had.
Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of the respect of your corpmates
I suspect this actual "loss of respect" you are afraid of is in your head, not from your corpmates. And if they actually do try to disrespect you for whatever losses you've had, then they are idiots you shouldn't bother relating to in the first place. If you do put up with them nonetheless, then you are disrespecting yourself.
Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of confidence in your abilities
The way to improve your abilities is through practice and learning, and the best lessons are learned out of losses. Embrace them.
Originally by: omgfreemoniez Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death
See above. You only lose your dignity if you stick around with whatever morons are trying to ridicule you for your losses. Screw them and move on.
Originally by: omgfreemoniez And on top of that you lose a ship too
Don't worry, there's many many more where it came from
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:41:00 -
[19]
fly what you can afford to me means you can replace the ship 2x if you lose it. However, I think that's also tempered with an evaluation of the likelihood that you are going to lose it. No reason to fly a decked out T3 into a situation that will likely kill it. Fly T2 in that case. When you do have a reasonable idea of the risks tho, I find its a lot more fun to fly the effective ships. I have about 150 pvp kills in t3 ships and haven't lost one yet. I will someday though, heck my proteus was in structure just a few days ago :P
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:50:00 -
[20]
What "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" actually means is...
..."ISK invested into a ship should be considered lost already, so don't invest more in any one ship you fly than you could stand to earn back without throwing a hissy-fit".
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Sajad
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Posted - 2010.08.21 01:30:00 -
[21]
All ships are disposable if you HTFU.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.21 05:37:00 -
[22]
If losing your ship means you have to 'go back' whether going back means dropping out of FW, the pvp fighting you are in(whatever role you had-you go down a level or levels), or lose out on a significant portion of income then IMO you couldn't afford to lose it.
How many times that is true for you is dependent on how likely it is you will lose the ship, IE if the loss was a mission boat you could probably make out with only having enough isk to replace it 1x then go back to making isk as you should have a better understanding of your limitations/mistake and not do it again or significantly reduce the chances of it.
The higher the turnover rate with ship losses the more isk you need to back it up for replacements unless you are willing to drop down to smaller/cheaper ships or less risky methods of play. The latter meaning IMO you couldn't afford to lose it but everyone can have their own metrics for such a thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Su Baru
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Posted - 2010.08.21 05:59:00 -
[23]
There should be two types of ships in your hangar #1 ISK Machine (ONE that only makes isk to buy the 2nd type of ship and modules) #2 Wonder what type of trouble I can get into with this (undock..pewpewpew)
Meaning there is a BS or BC or HAC that only runs missions, anoms whatever makes you ISK.. second type is the OMGIwannaHasFUN ship.. Draw the line before you take ship #1 out for #2's activities..
Cruisers and below are the best type imo, T1 with a few T2 fittings.
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EviaDark
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Posted - 2010.08.21 06:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: EviaDark on 21/08/2010 06:24:19 What the poster above me said, only I make isk through trading so it's really just one ship
Also, I am in agreement with your "friend"
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.08.21 06:28:00 -
[25]
If I'm willing to undock with it then I can afford to lose it. It is more about attachment for me than money. Same with drones, in fact I think I've gotten more emotional about losing drones than ships. My poor little drones...
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Magnus Sunbeam
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Posted - 2010.08.21 06:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez It's not just the loss of the pixels though, it's the whole package of loss that comes with it.
Loss of your killboard stats. Loss of the respect of your corpmates Loss of confidence in your abilities Loss of your dignity as you are ridiculed for your death And on top of that you lose a ship too (which almost seems negligible compared to the other things, I have to say).
It makes you feel **** and not want to log in.
You've 10s of billions and still fret over this? Maybe PVP just isn't for you. Best to stick to other activities and watch the wallet grow fatter. Also, it's justa game. Why are you getting worked up over something make believe in real life?
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.08.21 07:15:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Hentes Zsemle on 21/08/2010 07:19:43 If you fly something which is too cheap, pvp doesn't have a meaning, you don't care about your ship, you don't want to save it at all costs and you don't thing about the possible outcomes of a fight. It also restrects your options, since a cheap ship usually means its weak, but surely lacks something the T2 counterpart has. You are less likely to loose a T2 ship than a T1.
If have never been pvping, starting with T1 small and cheap ships is good, otherwise they are not going to let you to have the most fun possible in pvp.
sry, to reply to the op.. 1-10% of total wealth per ship, its highly dependant on what kind of ship it actually is
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Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.21 07:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez Everyone has heard the saying in the title. It is definitely in the top 5 rules of EVE. But there is room for interpretation in it.
I have a friend who flies ships which he could only rebuy once or maybe twice before being out of isk. He thinks he is sticking to the "rule", but I don't think he is - he can't long term sustain those ships if he takes more than a couple of losses.
Conversely, I have tens of billions of isk but I'm still leery about flying T2 cruisers. Back when I had "only" hundreds of millions of isk, only T1 fitted T1 cruisers would do in anything but a low-risk pvp situation.
Where do you draw the line? How affordable is affordable enough to be lost?
T1 cruiser gangs can certainly be fun because you don't have to care so much, but there is also a fun element in flying T2 because it makes you determined to win. How you fly your ship and how you dictate a engagement becomes a lot more important.
-------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
flakeys
DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.21 08:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder I think you should fly something that will make your blood pump.
In some cases even a kessie could do that
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.08.21 08:29:00 -
[30]
I prefer 'don't put all your eggs in one basket'. Pretty obvious though, isn't it? People really need telling?
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