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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2010.08.24 13:11:00 -
[31]
I love self destruct, good way to geneate the rare vintage of pirate tears.
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Jeneroux
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.24 13:36:00 -
[32]
If you catch me. The least I can do is annoy you.
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Draco Carollis
Amarr The Dead Canary Mining Corporation Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.08.25 01:33:00 -
[33]
An old enemy of our corp was attempting Grand Theft Mobile Lab, and I was performing hit and run attacks with a meta-fit sniping Megathron to defy them (I had no chance of winning, but you never did know). Took down one tackling rifter that attempted to pin me, and got the pod, but the second I just missed (and only one hit would have done it). I was pointed, and a T2 fit close range Abbadon warped next to me.
I knew at that moment I was going down. So I deployed sentries, turned on DCU, targeted the abbadon, hit approach and activated Self destruct. He had 2 minutes to kill me, and he failed - I SD'd with 50% hull remaining, and he had 50% armour left.
Next time, I'll also load Antimatter and overheat my guns - didn't have either that day.
Is it a legitimate tactic? Yes. All is fair in love and war. You don't like it, bring more DPS. My experience with PvP is that a primaried target goes down in 30 seconds.
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Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.25 02:01:00 -
[34]
Make a fake mail and **** fit it, upload to major kb sites.
The tears you get our epic.
-------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
Creiter
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Posted - 2010.08.25 02:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: AfroHorse Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change?
No one cares. All KB generated stats are player generated, just as EVEmon is player created and maintained. As CCP doesn't care enough to create some kind of in game EVEmon aside from the crappy counter under player stats and we are solely responsible to keep something in the que, CCP shouldn't be responsible to produce a secure record of ship destruction so you can record it. Hell, you might as well ask for "EVEbox Live" achievements that unlock for every so many kills generated for a specific ship class.
The only record I would care to see is now that we have EVEGate it could be an "offical source" of "Player X Destroyed Player Y" without listing who flew what, did how much damage, in what alliance/corp, in what system, and what modules dropped. I don't need to know down to what exact utility modules someone was flying, all PVP ships have a weapon system that easily identifiable that has MWD/Web/buffer type and corresponding rigs.
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Bacchus Dionysus
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.08.25 12:38:00 -
[36]
i admit that efficiency is a better measure of corp/alliance pvp quality than individual player quality, and that pro bncing distorts that number as much as self-destructing. never really done the blobfest, so i guess maybe someone who hides in big fleets might get high efficiency with little skill as well. like any statistic, it's more accurate as your sample gets larger. it's not so much about epeen stroking as it is about evaluating your own (alliance/corp/pilot) success and having the tools to quantify improvements or identify systemic failures.
that said, taking risks and killing ships > taking risks and dying, so overall efficiency remains a good measure pvp success.
anything that gives us a better picture of what is actually happening in pvp (km from self-destruct)is a positive change.
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SwissChris1
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Posted - 2010.08.25 12:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Aerilis How about every time you undock there's a 50% chance your ships reactor spontaneously fails and it self destructs? That would be cold and harsh.
haha or what if there was a small chance that your warp drive blows up mid-warp and you get stuck in the middle of no where until someone finds you
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bornaa
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Posted - 2010.08.25 15:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Merdaneth
The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks.
well you have to be pretty damn stupid (nothing personal...umm...ok, just a little) if you think the god of pvp is the guy that *****d on a titan km in a ibis. or the guy that only undocks when he has a fleet of 30 people behind him and gets his 100% efficiency this way. however, if you analyze killmails a lil better you can see who are the skilled pvp'ers and what they do, and since for some reason eve doesnt have this implemented, killboard stats are the only sense of accomplishment most of us pvp-ers have in this game.
Originally by: Merdaneth
A. it is not a good PvP metric
its all we have at the moment so deal with it. there is no other way to show someone what you have done in pvp but this.
Originally by: Merdaneth
B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly?
report how? oh you mean like a mental killmail but without any details? and then you go on a killboard and post what looks like an imaginary kill without any detailed info? dumbest thing i ever heard. just send in the damn killmail then.
Originally by: Merdaneth
C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there.
if its nonsense then why did ccp make this sd mechanic send no killmail and drop no loot? and people that DO self destruct care about the "nonsense" killboard efficiency and exploit the system. someone worked their ass off and maybe risked alot to catch that carrier and this SD way he gets no recognition or money for his efforts or risks. some people live off pvp too you know? this would feel to carebears like your last boss in your plex you spend hours to clear self destructs when he sees hes gonna get killed and doesnt drop them few billionss of loot. and alot of people that pvp dont care about money, they just want a killmail to show so its even worse to deprive them of the prize they fought for.
Originally by: Merdaneth
Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics.
well whats wrong about that? its a competitive game and killmails are the only way to measure someones success. i dont know why you play this game, maybe you use it like an extended chatroom or enjoy killing ******ed artificial intelligence ships and make 100000 zillion isk you have no clue what to spend on. what if that carrier you were "supposed" to kill was full faction fitted and was worth 50 bil isk? o wait, he self destructed so we'll never know. but we can say we killed A carrier. its a ******ed mechanic. end of story.
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bornaa
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Posted - 2010.08.25 15:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jones Bones Bring more DPS.
dumbest reason ever. you are about to kill a bigger ship with a smaller fleet and you get rewarded with no loot or killmail? yes lets stimulate more blobbing in eve, please.
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Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.25 17:24:00 -
[40]
I really wasn't trolling, just fake it. The amount they cry when they see you went ahead and did it anyway. You attacked carrier, you saw it explode, they don't own a carrier anymore. Its not like you invented a loss. Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating.
Flame away
-------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
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bornaa
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Posted - 2010.08.25 17:33:00 -
[41]
Edited by: bornaa on 25/08/2010 17:33:08
Originally by: Razzor Death I really wasn't trolling, just fake it. The amount they cry when they see you went ahead and did it anyway. You attacked carrier, you saw it explode, they don't own a carrier anymore. Its not like you invented a loss. Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating.
Flame away
actually its a great idea. fake the killmail of the guy that sd'd with a handsome faction fit. and lets see him justify it how it isnt true. :D
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Bacchus Dionysus
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.08.25 23:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Razzor Death Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating.
yeah exactly.
just don't allow self-destruct when a pilot is aggressed or targeted, tbh.
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Storm Shield
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Posted - 2010.08.26 08:07:00 -
[43]
It's True.......Epeeen Tears ARE Funnier than Care Bear Tears
Now as I have heard you Epeeeners out there ,say to all the Care Bears that you so happily gank and then laugh at them when they complain.
"Do us all a favour......Get a cup of concrete and drink it all down and harden the **** UP!"
It's a game with a two way street....and only a fool trys to drive down the wrong side of the road.
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Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.26 12:39:00 -
[44]
See above for example of tears when you dare to fake anyway.
-------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
bornaa
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Posted - 2010.08.26 14:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Storm Shield
Now as I have heard you Epeeeners out there ,say to all the Care Bears that you so happily gank and then laugh at them when they complain.
It's a game with a two way street....and only a fool trys to drive down the wrong side of the road.
to stop being a dumbass carebear that is afk minning/ratting can be overcome by the player itself. ****ty mechanic that gives you no reward when you "win" can't.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.08.26 14:22:00 -
[46]
I agree with Aeriliis; so many other idiots and carebears here its unreal.
For all the ammo and time you spend shooting a cap, to not even get a mail when they self destruct is daft. You even get mails from crappy towers and for every new damn noob ship you get, so why not from self destructing capships?
The denial argument fails because the real denial from a self destruct comes in denial of loot - denial of the event ever happening by not producing a mail is daft. Destruction of the ship is the reward/owners pain - the killmail is just a statement of that fact - Anyone getting butthurt by idiots Epeen waving of killmails is a delicate flower indeed.
It should generate a mail with damage done etc like normal, but saying the person proudly self destructed. Will probably not happen though as CCP have not got the resource to do any sensible changes lately.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2010.08.27 01:09:00 -
[47]
You roam systems running from hundreds of players a day until you find that one ship that you can kill in 5 seconds with zero chance of loss. You do this day in and day out padding your KB stats just so that you can say you are a god at PvP. That is not skill, yet it's basically what all of the "1337" PvPers do. Well congratulations, you win EVE. Now suck it up buttercup and quit crying about people taking away your precious. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
GavinGoodrich
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.08.27 02:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Merdaneth Edited by: Merdaneth on 23/08/2010 07:34:17
Killmails are just a piece of text. If you really want one, I can send you one if another carrier self-destructs.
Well said, sir. \o |
Merdaneth
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.08.27 08:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus
edit: rereading and thinking about this, it's important to note that for me kb stats are not so much about epeen stroking as they are about evaluating your own (alliance/corp/pilot) success and having the tools to quantify improvements or identify systemic failures.
Many people say this. Although nobody asks to divide the 'kills' and the 'isk' by the number of pilots on the killmail. Most look more at their isk efficiency and number of kills than look at a weighted point system. Racking up high scores is what interests most people in killboards, not actual tools, or such tools and good stats would be hugely more popular. It doesn't take a genius to note that giving 40 people 1 kill each when they shoot someone is not the same as a single pilot getting one kill when he shoots the same ship solo. It is not hard to work such a thing into KB software.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
AdZc
Caldari Legio Prima Victrix
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Posted - 2010.08.27 15:35:00 -
[50]
Edited by: AdZc on 27/08/2010 15:48:43 Edited by: AdZc on 27/08/2010 15:36:12
Originally by: Allant Doran
Originally by: Ping Fa Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10
Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve
Just sayin.. :p
Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick)
Just sayin.. :p
hey look, another person who thinks Activion has any say over what Blizzard do.
Blizzard and Activision are owned by the same company, Vivendi. The ycannot tell each other what to do but they are linked. Kinda like when you make yourself dinner, your brother doesn't tell you what you want then eat it for you.
Lol who said anything about Activision?
And i agree with that anyway.
Satan > Activision and Blizzard both (and apple,bunige, IW...i could go on)
/end derail
p.s. self destruct is fine, its better than an eject? only problem is they may get ready to pod u. better to wait till ur about to pop.... eject and warp, you get ur pod out and they dont stop shooting and blow the ship neway.
Ofc there is a risk they get ur carrier.
p.p.s. even better, at about 10secs before self destruct, eject and warp, no chance they will be able to board. Mind you does anyone know if a self destruct cancels on eject?
Originally by: Wacktopia
1.In r/l blasters actually hit the target becoz they were made better after the web nerf 2.Minny grls wil do pretty-much anything. 3.Quafe tastes like ass*(I know this becoz of 2. |
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.08.27 18:31:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Eris Davion on 27/08/2010 18:34:39
Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:23:31 Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:22:28 It is a ******ed mechanic, that should not possible during combat or at least should deny the insurance and shut off any module the second you activate it. That's all.
Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all.
Why shouldn't it be possible?
If suicide-ganking in hi-sec is fair-game, then I don't see a (mechanical) problem with self-destructing to deny loot/killmail.
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Taedrin
Gallente White Haven Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.27 22:31:00 -
[52]
My opinion? Self destructing should generate a kill mail, but also destroy all loot. The act of "scuttling" a ship as an act of defiance is perfectly fine. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Cucumber Sammiches
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Posted - 2010.08.28 08:40:00 -
[53]
Pfft, just post a fake killmail
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NightHaunter
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Damu'Khonde
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Posted - 2010.08.28 23:54:00 -
[54]
Self-destructing should cause a large AoE damage. Should also provide a mail. I want to see both.
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Paxi Plexi
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.29 13:55:00 -
[55]
About another improvement to killmails: Why not just assign a point alue to any ship (as is done in KBs already, although I don't know how that is computed) and whenever the attackers have more than twice the points of the victim(s) the killmail shows no names but just: poor VICTIM was utterly blobbed by ### cowards. |
Scoundrelus
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2010.08.30 04:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed.
i agree that self-destruct should generate a km for the player with the final blow before self destruct. don't really care about the loot.
This has to be a joke right? "camouflaging their true ability"? Buddy I got news for you, you can check the top killer on an alliance/corp killboard who has like 1000+ kills and you'll see involved parties are about 15 - 200. This is especially true of large 0.0 alliances and Merc Corps, both boast their awesome PvP ability but all their kb shows is that they can take on one ship with 15 ships + ECM. There's no "true ability" there, just CTRL-Click + F1.
On top of all that killboards are very deceptive, for example I'm part of a high quality PvP corp but our killboard sucks at the moment because we're in a huge transitional period and haven't been on a single op. Killmails don't provide **** but e-peen enlargement that's why all these clowns are always screaming "wait let me get on the killmail!".
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Portmanteau
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Posted - 2010.09.02 06:38:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aerilis It's ******ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant ***** you are. Loot I don't really care about.
Get rid of killmails, then the effect is just about the same anyway, they lost their ship, you made them do it.
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5hadow Wolf
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Posted - 2010.09.03 17:29:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove kill-mails from the game.
Meh, Corp sites would be filled with screen-shots afterwards.
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Caldari citizen52145894561
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Posted - 2010.09.05 05:53:00 -
[59]
actually I think it was changed recently, self destruct now drops a wreak and loot, but no kill mail. why did they nerf it, they should have made self destruct instant, they should make pirates WORK for their isk other than farming carebears
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Portmanteau
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Posted - 2010.09.05 11:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Caldari citizen52145894561 actually I think it was changed recently, self destruct now drops a wreak and loot, but no kill mail. why did they nerf it, they should have made self destruct instant, they should make pirates WORK for their isk other than farming carebears
instant ? hahahaha u are srsly dumb, no loot would ever be dropped again
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