Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
JonnyRandom
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 00:45:00 -
[1]
I really need to upgrade my Apoc, but I can't seem to decide between the Paladin and the Nightmare. Which one is easier to fit? Which one is less expensive? Which one blitzes faster? I have both Amarr and Caldari and armour and shield skills, so that is not a problem.
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 00:49:00 -
[2]
They're both pretty big pimpin man. I'd say the question is if you want to loot/salvage or not and how your armor vs shield skills line up. :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
|
Rahnim
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 02:01:00 -
[3]
I can recommend the Nightmare, I have tried both.
The tracking bonus of the nightmare is really nice, + the fact that the paladins web bonus, well it has limited range.
|
RentableMuffin
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 04:52:00 -
[4]
both are easy to fit, but nightmare is a bit nicer (can plonk on a 100mn ab), pally is probably a bit cheaper, nightmare blitzes a bit faster
I really like both of them
|
Kobe Sun
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 14:28:00 -
[5]
the webber bonus is a plus on the paladin but a fairly useless one. the only mission where i strap in a webber is AE4. in all other missions its 2 tracking computers.
the real bonus of the paladin is the extended tractor beams and the fact the paladin looks better than the nightmare. you have to look good squashing rats. it's a unwritten rule. |
Kenpotchi
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 14:31:00 -
[6]
hahaha the Paladin looks better then the Nightmare. Good one.
|
Moose Burger
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 14:35:00 -
[7]
I love doing the barrel roll with my nightmare.
I think if i didnt skill up for the kronos, Paladin would probably be the next candidate to be my 10,000m3 hauler. Sadly. i took the kronos.
|
Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers The 0rphanage
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 15:30:00 -
[8]
having had both... i went for the pally in the end.
tracking bonus is meh when you kill stuff 50km away(or use a web if close enough... faction web ftw) dmg is about the same pally doesnt need a cap booster.
as i 2x acc while mission running (alt in a command ship depending on mission) and alt in a pally... i dont need to pay that much attention anymore on cap :P
end of the day it comes down to looks and how you are using it. (im using 2x tracking computer on my pally so tracking has never been a issue) ---------------------------------- Fighting for something
|
TheMahdi
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 16:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: TheMahdi on 30/08/2010 16:33:32 Edited by: TheMahdi on 30/08/2010 16:32:58 Edited by: TheMahdi on 30/08/2010 16:32:08 Having flown both for a while, I generally use my Nightmare now. For a few reasons:
- Most of missions aren't worth salvaging, too many cruisers/frigates and not enough BS. And the Nightmare does all of them faster. The AB/speed, range, tracking and alpha helps alot and mostly the best ISK/hr is basicly the best LP/hr.
- The Nightmare can still fit a tractor and salvager and in a few missions where the BS spawn close (like WC) it works out better than the Paladin.
- You might not think much of the tracking and ability to fit 1-2x Tracking Enhancers, but the tracking and extra range help alot and with maxed supporting Gunnery skills the Nightmare can alpha/hit things at ranges and speeds the Paladin could barely scratch.
- Nightmare looks wicked. Paladin is a banana boat with a bad red paint job.
|
Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 16:39:00 -
[10]
I resent wasting time training up Caldari skills for the Nightmare over the Paladin.
This is what I use to great effect:
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer + Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy Stasis Webifier (18.2km O/H)
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
IMHO, the tracking bonus on the Nightmare is a moot point if you use a faction TC with script, faction web and the Gunslinger AX-2 Hardwiring (5% tracking) with a Paladin.
The only things that you can't hit even when they're webbed are things like Spider Drones and Splinter Alvi that orbit you at >2000m... which your drones will chew through in seconds anyway, so they're not worth degrading your faction crystals for.
The Tachy tracking "problems" are greatly over-exaggerated and easily compensated for.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
|
knentil
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 22:21:00 -
[11]
Another thing to consider is that while it is not required both caldaria BS 5 and Amarr BS 5 probably take less time to train than maruders 5 and are more useful.
I think the nightmare also has less support skills required..
|
Bill O'Really
|
Posted - 2010.08.30 22:48:00 -
[12]
Been thinking about it but I like the tractoring bonus too much to give up on my Pally. Most Amarr mission have reasonable to good salvage (around 40 armor plates for a blockade, 30 for the Blood Raider side of world's collide (BR/Angel version ), with skipping the first room, + other assorted salvage maybe worth a third to half as much combined.
You can tractor all to one point and loot it during the mission itself (I have three tractors on it) and quickly salvage everything it with a dedicated ship after you completed a few missions. Blitzing makes you more isk than waiting for ships to come into range in long range missions though. So reel in what is in range and keep killing for the best results.
|
Hyey
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 04:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Riho having had both... i went for the pally in the end.
tracking bonus is meh when you kill stuff 50km away(or use a web if close enough... faction web ftw) dmg is about the same pally doesnt need a cap booster.
as i 2x acc while mission running (alt in a command ship depending on mission) and alt in a pally... i dont need to pay that much attention anymore on cap :P
end of the day it comes down to looks and how you are using it. (im using 2x tracking computer on my pally so tracking has never been a issue)
Uh nightmare doesnt need a cap booster either if you tank properly.
Nightmare blitzes faster so it's probably better overall. ~~ Hyey
|
Madmi CEO
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 12:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kenpotchi hahaha the Paladin looks better then the Nightmare. Good one.
He said that the Paladin looks better than the Nightmare. What you said is not even a correct sentence.
|
Leobon
Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 12:51:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Leobon on 31/08/2010 12:51:16
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Originally by: Kenpotchi hahaha the Paladin looks better then the Nightmare. Good one.
He said that the Paladin looks better than the Nightmare. What you said is not even a correct sentence.
Actually it is. He laughed at his statement by simply laughing at it, repeating him, and then added a couple of sarcastic words at the end. On the other hand sir what you put makes no sence.
|
Akisawa
Caldari Path Of The Cursed
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 13:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Leobon Edited by: Leobon on 31/08/2010 12:51:16
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Originally by: Kenpotchi hahaha the Paladin looks better then the Nightmare. Good one.
He said that the Paladin looks better than the Nightmare. What you said is not even a correct sentence.
Actually it is. He laughed at his statement by simply laughing at it, repeating him, and then added a couple of sarcastic words at the end. On the other hand sir what you put makes no sence.
You talking like a couple of schoolgirls - "it's not WHAT he said, it's HOW he said it"
--- Improving my day by ruining yours
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 13:31:00 -
[17]
I perfer NM. More lows for damage and TEs + tracking bonus. Also shield tankig is sweet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Dusica
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 13:53:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dusica on 31/08/2010 13:53:34 Paladin vs Nightmare
Obvious things are shield tank vs armor tank , easy to train for nightmare , salvage on the go with paladin. Both can be pimped but you will want more on nightmare i think. depends a lot...
First question is tachyon. Both can fit them , but nightmare can have tracking enhancers in low slots and can have spare pg for cap injectors and afterburner so you can get faster to acceleration gates it is very important because of low tachyon tracking you cant just accelerate to gate and shoot npcs on the way. Nightmares tracking bonus is very very helpful as well while paladins web bonus is mostly useless. Paladin has power grid problems when using t2 tachyons. So you can be forced to go faction tachyons with faction repairers etc but still you wont be able to fit heavy cap booster with afterburner like nightmare can.
Why are tachyons good you ask ? First thing they are cheap to use with imperial navy crystals since they shoot rarely on top of using only 4 turrets . Second thing is you will most of the time use multifrequency crystals that means that you will do good ammount of thermal damage that will help you a lot vs pirates and factions that are traditionaly hard for laser users Guristas and Angels.
Second question is Pulse lasers. They are good easy to fit and not cap hungry both ships will have tons of spare grid to fit what ever they desire. Nightmare on top of afterburner and cap booster will be able to fit even some faction heavy nos in high for even more cap that is always needed on that ship. Paladin is relatively fast for Ammar ship and considering it losses apoc bonuse it will use a lot of scorch since it is on the edge of his salvage reach. Good tracking on both ships with this bonus you might find some uses in web since you do not need tracking computer because you do not want any more then 46km range of scorch since what you kill you want in your salvage range. Problem comes vs guristas scorch does minor damage vs them so you will often be forced to "sprint" to them to multifrequency range.
All in all both are good but have edge in deferent tasks.
Nightmare is LP grinder that means it blitzes trough most missions far faster it does more thermal so it is suitable for some none amarr missions and its shield means it can tank some none amarr enemies , it is great if you got home in null sec with great agents there i did made several bilions there farming LP most of the time and nightmare is king of all amarr ships. So nightmare null sec blitzing for LP grind.
Paladin is salvage boat. Salvage materials lately in empire started to become profitable once again. With this you will want pulse lasers and amarr agent so you can get a lot of sansha and blood missions that are easy to do with scorch and great for loot and salvage. It is very good obviously in high sec. Since in high sec LP rewards are a lot lower then in null sec you will not waste a lot by doing missions a bit slower. So paladin is high sec salvaging for profit on market.
I trained for nightmare first then for paladin. Would suggest you do the same.
Eternal Will. |
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 13:55:00 -
[19]
Looks like easy decision to me. Do you salvage/loot your missions? If yes, use paladin, if not, use nightmare. Thats about it. The difference in killing performance is really very low when both ships are gank fitted.
|
Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 15:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 31/08/2010 15:32:58 Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 31/08/2010 15:31:59
Originally by: Riho
pally doesnt need a cap booster.
lol, mine does...the way I have it fit and use it. just use both. nm fit for gank and range, which you'll use most often. pal for close range where more tanking is needed. but, still gankly at the same time.
imho the best way to use either ship and fit to go with them.
[Nightmare, Bad MoFo] Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Cap Recharger II X-Large Shield Booster II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Auto Targeting System II Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Drones_Active=Hammerhead II,5 Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,5
Implant_Active=Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' CR4 Implant_Active=Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer Implant_Active=Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' CC8 Implant_Active=Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'Gunslinger' CX-2 Implant_Active=Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Lancer' G2-Epsilon
more expensive sb is just a personal choice. add gist xl if you wish and think you need to rep your shields in that mish even though the rats are all dying at 50km and never scratch your ship.
[Paladin, Mega Pulse Monster of Doom] Centus X-Type Armor EM Hardener Centus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer Tracking Enhancer II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Energy Burst Aerator II
Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,5 Drones_Inactive=Hammerhead II,5
Implant_Active=Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer Implant_Active=Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Squire' CC8 Implant_Active=Pashan's Turret Customization Mindlink Implant_Active=Pashan's Turret Handling Mindlink
Obviously, closer range with moo tank was goal here. I just love being able to take advantage of a marauders large cargo bay to hold 800's and allow the gank to come out. Also, forget tach's on this. PG problems and pg imps are something that just shouldn't be in you brain to pve. --
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
|
TheMahdi
|
Posted - 2010.08.31 17:21:00 -
[21]
Edited by: TheMahdi on 31/08/2010 17:21:17 I use a cap booster on NM and CNR, but not on Paladin. The NM doesn't really need TCs or that much tank (due to shields + pure gank), the cap booster is more for being able to use the AB imo, I barely even use 5 caps on most missions, but it doesn't need any more range or tracking so why not fit an AB and cap booster?
Paladin is nice for WC like missions and when you don't feel like shooting wildly at triggers. But I'd much rather have an AB, a shield tank and maximum gank for blitzing 90% of missions (i.e. NM/CNR).
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |