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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:22:00 -
[1]
So they give 64% to resist it says in the info, Now I've played for 3 years now but I simply dont understand that why when you buy this and fit to a CNR for example it does not give 64% extra resist at all. Kinetic for example would be over 100% resist with just 1 of these installed.
So with no stacking penalty with only using 1 of these with no invul or any other mod to do with kinetic resist why dont you get the stated 64% resist.
Im not a troll just a dude looking for info
:)
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Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:27:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Stick Cult on 30/08/2010 19:30:21 Edited by: Stick Cult on 30/08/2010 19:30:05 Edited by: Stick Cult on 30/08/2010 19:27:29 I can't think of a way to explain it in a way that makes sense... so I'll explain in examples!
If you have a ship with a base 50% resistance and add a mod that gives another 50%, you'd end up with 75%.... Erm.. I can't think of a way to explain it in words... **** this headache..
Or if a ship with a base of 25%, and add a 50% hardener on: The amount not covered by the resistance (75%) times the hardener is what gets added. So you end up with an extra 37.5% resistance, for a total resistance of 62.5%...
If that makes any sense at all.
edit: A formula, if it makes any sense (if you're only adding 1 hardener).. total resistance = (1-base resistance)*hardener
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:30:00 -
[3]
Ah i see, Thanks alot for taking the time to post.
Its helped greatly
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Kalen Pavle
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:30:00 -
[4]
You start with 50%, add a 50% hardener, you end up with 75%. This is because hardeners operate on the remaining unhardened portion only. It closes the gap from where you are to 100% by the percent it hardens.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:30:00 -
[5]
Because thats not how the resist formula works. Say you have 50% base resist, if you add an extra 50% hardener that gets applied to the remaining resist. (max - base) * extra + base = actual. (100% - 50%) * 50% + 50% = 75%. In addition, there is a stacking penalty added for more resists of the same type. In any case, more is ALWAYS better, so 64% of the remaining is better than 50% or whatever value you have.
Check the Wiki: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Fitting_ships ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ultim8Evil on 30/08/2010 19:33:07 It's a percentage of the remaining unresisted shield.
Say your kinetic resist is already 80% and you add your module that gives you 64% "extra".
That's only 64% of the remaining 20%, which is +12.8%. So your kinetic resist becomes 92.8%.
And that's only if you don't take stacking penalties into consideration.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:33:00 -
[7]
Resists only REDUCE the resistance hole. Once you start thinking like that, you'll understand.
Essentially, you do (100-B)*(R/100) + B = N
Where B = Base resist, R = Resistance modifier from hardener, and N = New resistance. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:37:00 -
[8]
You do get the stated resistà
àto the portion that isn't covered by the other resists your ship has. It works like this:
Your CNR has 25% kinetic resists (on armourà why you'd fit Core X-types to a CNR is a different matter). So when you get hit by a kinetic weapon, 25% of its damage gets soaked up and only 75% remain.
Now you add your X-type kinetic hardener with its 64% resist, and thus 64% of that remaining damage gets soaked up by the hardener. If you got hit by a 100 HP damage weapon, the first step would cut this down to 75%, and the second step would remove 64% of 75 (=48) damage leaving only 27 that actually manages to get through your tank.
Resists aren't added together ù you don't get 25%+64% ù but are rather the damage remainders multiplied together: 1á-á(1á-áresist1)+(1á-áresist2)+(1á-áresist3). In this case, we'd have 1-(1-0.25)(1-0.64)=1-0.75+0.36=73% (and of course to go back to the example, 100 damage hitting a 73% resist means that 27 damage goes through). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jimmmy Jones
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jimmmy Jones on 30/08/2010 19:38:08 Everyone else above me basicly answered already....but I have to put somethign in here.
GO JOIN A CORP THAT WILL TEACH YOU THE BASICS! If you have managed to avoid this for three years then stop, open up recruitment, and find someone. Learning from people who know a lot more than you, and who are in your corp is the easiest way to improve in eve, especially when your still missing large gaps in what you need to know. (that would be you)
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Telvani
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:48:00 -
[10]
Wait 8 helpful to replies to a thread about fitting an X-type armour hardener onto a faction shield tanking battleship without understanding a basic game mechanic in the wrong forum section.
I think something has happened to the forums : S |
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Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Telvani Wait 8 helpful to replies to a thread about fitting an X-type armour hardener onto a faction shield tanking battleship without understanding a basic game mechanic in the wrong forum section.
I think something has happened to the forums : S
I didn't notice that it was an armor hardener... And the wrong forum section, well... what do you expect?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Taedrin
Gallente White Haven Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.30 19:57:00 -
[12]
As many people have mentioned, that's not how the resistance formulas work.
Think about it this way: the bonus is a reduction in vulnerability to that damage type, not an increase in resistance. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Qwert0
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Posted - 2010.08.30 20:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Qwert0 on 30/08/2010 20:57:43 Now even though adding say 50% resists onto 80% only nets you 10% raw resist (to 90%), remember that you are going form 20% to 10% damage taken, which is still cutting it in half. At 98% it will only take you to 99%, but it is still a reduction in damage taken by half (from 2% to 1% damage taken).
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Passageway
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.30 21:09:00 -
[14]
You've played for 3 years and only just found this out
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Doddy
The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.30 23:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TriadSte So they give 64% to resist it says in the info, Now I've played for 3 years now but I simply dont understand that why when you buy this and fit to a CNR for example it does not give 64% extra resist at all. Kinetic for example would be over 100% resist with just 1 of these installed.
So with no stacking penalty with only using 1 of these with no invul or any other mod to do with kinetic resist why dont you get the stated 64% resist.
Im not a troll just a dude looking for info
:)
Its 64% increased resistance to damage received, not to total damage, so you receive 64% less damage. If you have a basic resist of 25% kinetic on that damage type already you are receiving 75% damage, fitting the hardner reduces that 75% by 64% meaning you receive a 48% increase of resists (75%*64%). Add this 48% to the 25% you already have gives 73% resistance. Fitting a second x-type hardner would thus reduse the 27% damage you are still receiving by 64% again for a 16.2% (27%*64%) increase in the resist stat giving you a total of 73%+16.2%=89.2% total resistance to kinetic. The stacking penalty (i forget the formula) reduces this to 88%.
In order to get a resist to 100% you would thus need a 100% hardner.
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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.31 10:13:00 -
[16]
So Ive just seen the replies to my OP and realised I did a massive error by typing Core X type when clearly I meant the GIST X Types 64% shield hards.
Also to the guys who feel its odd for me to realise this, I do not think about the math involved in hardeners/resists only on the market do I work math out. I just always wondered why a 64% resist doesn't give its full amount but now because of you kind people I now know.
Many Thanks
/TS
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:09:00 -
[17]
For bonus points:
As far as the game is concerned, "resistances" are actually resonances, and the resonance value is a straight multiplier on the damage. A "40% resist" is actually a resonance of 0.6, meaning all damage of that type is multiplied by 0.6 - it's just displayed as an increasing percentage rather than a decreasing decimal, because that makes more sense to most people (higher = better). This is also why resist mods have a negative value on their resistance bonus - they're subtracting a percentage from the resonance value.
Once you look at it that way round, everything works in a very straightforward manner. You take your 0.6 resonance (40% resist) and reduce it by 50% (T1 hardener) and you get a resonance of 0.3 (70% resist). This means that incoming damage amounts are multiplied by 0.3 rather than by 0.6.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale For bonus points:
As far as the game is concerned, "resistances" are actually resonances, and the resonance value is a straight multiplier on the damage. A "40% resist" is actually a resonance of 0.6, meaning all damage of that type is multiplied by 0.6 - it's just displayed as an increasing percentage rather than a decreasing decimal, because that makes more sense to most people (higher = better). This is also why resist mods have a negative value on their resistance bonus - they're subtracting a percentage from the resonance value.
Once you look at it that way round, everything works in a very straightforward manner. You take your 0.6 resonance (40% resist) and reduce it by 50% (T1 hardener) and you get a resonance of 0.3 (70% resist). This means that incoming damage amounts are multiplied by 0.3 rather than by 0.6.
Sir you have awsomed all over our forums. Now for an Encore explain why a Caldari Navy EM Hadener gives 55% resists(same as Tech 2) while a CN Invun gives 37.5%(Definatly not the same as 30% Tech 2).
-- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
Ejit
Amarr Hairy Beavers
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale For bonus points:
As far as the game is concerned, "resistances" are actually resonances, and the resonance value is a straight multiplier on the damage. A "40% resist" is actually a resonance of 0.6, meaning all damage of that type is multiplied by 0.6 - it's just displayed as an increasing percentage rather than a decreasing decimal, because that makes more sense to most people (higher = better). This is also why resist mods have a negative value on their resistance bonus - they're subtracting a percentage from the resonance value.
Once you look at it that way round, everything works in a very straightforward manner. You take your 0.6 resonance (40% resist) and reduce it by 50% (T1 hardener) and you get a resonance of 0.3 (70% resist). This means that incoming damage amounts are multiplied by 0.3 rather than by 0.6.
Eh?... wish I'd listened in school now..
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Sir you have awsomed all over our forums. Now for an Encore explain why a Caldari Navy EM Hadener gives 55% resists(same as Tech 2) while a CN Invun gives 37.5%(Definatly not the same as 30% Tech 2).
Because the CN EM hardener very gently nibbles on your cap, whereas the CN Invuln behaves more like a great white in a soup of pre-minced minced tunaà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Sir you have awsomed all over our forums. Now for an Encore explain why a Caldari Navy EM Hadener gives 55% resists(same as Tech 2) while a CN Invun gives 37.5%(Definatly not the same as 30% Tech 2).
Because the CN EM hardener very gently nibbles on your cap, whereas the CN Invuln behaves more like a great white in a soup of pre-minced minced tunaà
Metaphores make everything better!
-- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 31/08/2010 11:29:16
Originally by: CCP Greyscale For bonus points:
As far as the game is concerned, "resistances" are actually resonances, and the resonance value is a straight multiplier on the damage. A "40% resist" is actually a resonance of 0.6, meaning all damage of that type is multiplied by 0.6 - it's just displayed as an increasing percentage rather than a decreasing decimal, because that makes more sense to most people (higher = better). This is also why resist mods have a negative value on their resistance bonus - they're subtracting a percentage from the resonance value.
Once you look at it that way round, everything works in a very straightforward manner. You take your 0.6 resonance (40% resist) and reduce it by 50% (T1 hardener) and you get a resonance of 0.3 (70% resist). This means that incoming damage amounts are multiplied by 0.3 rather than by 0.6.
THAT'S (almost) WHAT I WAS SAYING SINCE AGES AGO !
I was calling it "hardening factor" though, and it's equal to (1/"your resonance").
So, you know, kind of like, double bonus points, man, DOUBLE !
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Sir you have awsomed all over our forums. Now for an Encore explain why a Caldari Navy EM Hadener gives 55% resists(same as Tech 2) while a CN Invun gives 37.5%(Definatly not the same as 30% Tech 2).
Because the CN EM hardener very gently nibbles on your cap, whereas the CN Invuln behaves more like a great white in a soup of pre-minced minced tunaà
Metaphores make everything better!
Also, repeating the same adjective due to copypasta failure makes metaphores awsome awesomeà
Yup. So there. Nothing to see here. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente SUECHTLER Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 31/08/2010 11:41:20 Greyscale. I love the explanation. And it honestly makes more sense explained like that than a lot of the formulas the guys have come up with for it.
Although, how the hell would the server react if you had a hardener with only 1% resistance increase ;P
Like just after beta when some pilot tried to fly up to a ship firing and went to -1m of the ship he was firing on and promptly crashed the server?
Also negative calculation is awesomeness. I like it. Now I know why we cannot escape eve, it is a situation where you divided by a negative number creating a black hole from which none can escape. ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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CCP Shadow
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.31 11:56:00 -
[25]
Little thread, you seem to be lost. Here, let me help you find your new home in Ships and Modules, where you belong.
*magical thread move*
Carry on folks.
-- Shadow
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inario
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Posted - 2010.08.31 12:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: inario on 31/08/2010 12:19:27
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Although, how the hell would the server react if you had a hardener with only 1% resistance increase ;P
1% is the same as multiplying your current resonance with 0.99 therefor if you had a base 40% resist (0.6) you'd end up with 0.6*0.99=0.594 ressonance wich is 40.6% resist.
now if only we knew if the server calculates damage using a decimal resonance or whole numbers only
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Headerman
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Posted - 2010.09.01 10:29:00 -
[27]
A 50% resist module would add a 50% resistance to the current unresisted amount.
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