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Big Bossu
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 14:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
I keep getting told that highsec has high rewards and that I should move to highsec?
Could someone knowledgeable tell me, what the ISK/h is in various forms of carebearing:
Mining: 0.0 vs Highsec Highsec lvl4s vs lvl5s. Anomaly farming vs incursion. Exploration in 0.0 vs low vs highsec.
Should I start moving now? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
268
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Posted - 2012.07.27 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
general consensus seems to be that you can expect between 50 and 150mil/hr from all of these. YMMV.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
603
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration. |
Sir Livingston
LOOT GODS
151
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration. agreed
and why are there so many players who try to determine an isk/hr ratio for the profession? EVE is not a job, it's a game. Quit trying to slap a "minimum wage" on activities in a video game. ahahahaha! this is so idiotic i make videos about internet spaceships click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
in-game chat channel: Club Deadspace |
Zicon Shak'ra
Vacuo Anomalia
8
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
You forgot wormholes. W-space, best space. |
Wetwater
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration.
Of course there is. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
605
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
No, there's not. |
Ki're Suahien
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sir Livingston wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration. agreed and why are there so many players who try to determine an isk/hr ratio for the profession? EVE is not a job, it's a game. Quit trying to slap a "minimum wage" on activities in a video game. ahahahaha! this is so idiotic
Because most people farm isk to support their other gameplay. So it only makes sense to pick the most isk/hr efficient method so they don't have to do it for as much time.
Now, there are people who log in soley to gain more isk. I personally agree that it is a rather idiotic approach to a game. But to each his own. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
605
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ki're Suahien wrote:
If you had a large enough sample size there is. How much isk you made in a month by how much time you spent on exploration that month. Even that might not be a large enough sample, though. I guess if he meant, "If I spend 3 hours this afternoon on exploration, how much money will I make?", then yeah that's a ridiculous question with no answer.
Yeah absolutely, the problem is even if you get that sample size and do those calculations, the results you have are simply not useful in any practical sense, for the reason you described at the end of your post.
Whereas with missions/incursions/anomalies/belt ratting/mining, these things are much more consistent and an accurate and applicable isk/hr number can be had relatively easy. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
90
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Of course there is a way to determine isk per hour. Don't be silly :)
If there wasn't, CCP could cut exploration rewards in half and you couldn't tell because there was no way to generate isk/hour.
So, yes, there is isk/hour and it is meaningful as well.
It is what the EXPECTED isk/hour is if you kept at it hour after hour. Sure, if you just look at it for 1 hour or 3 hours you will not realize it but that is not what the OP is getting at. What he is wondering is what is the EXPECTED VALUE in isk/hour he can get from exploring.
In other threads, people ask if exploration pays more than lvl 4's and you get morons who answer "random number generator is random"...but this can be answered in finding the expected value of exploration and compare it to the same value from level 4's. Lvl 4 expected value is easy to calculate compared to exploration but exploration can be calculated.
So, while I agree with you that someone who is going to do it for 3 hours and only 3 hours and then quit the activity to never do it again then it is a near meaningless question. However, 99.99% of the people will not do that. They will explore or do missions tomorrow and next week and next month and they wish to know in which activity they can expect more isk. |
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Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
spreadsheets online was bad enough, but spaceship quickbooks is where I draw the line dammit. |
dexington
90
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration.
There has to be probability density function, that gives a nice bell curve, which tell you what you most probable income is going to be. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
GreenSeed
78
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:general consensus seems to be that you can expect between 50 and 150mil/hr from all of these. YMMV. Due to a recent aligning of planets in some distant solar system, the updated calculations show 130m isk/h as a more accurate figure.
Get your facts straight please.
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Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
21
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Big Bossu wrote:I keep getting told that highsec has high rewards and that I should move to highsec?
Could someone knowledgeable tell me, what the ISK/h is in various forms of carebearing:
Mining: 0.0 vs Highsec Highsec lvl4s vs lvl5s. Anomaly farming vs incursion. Exploration in 0.0 vs low vs highsec.
Should I start moving now?
My basic understanding is you will generally earn more money in low sec and null sec. Mining: the most profitable ores are in null. You can do OK in high sec, but in my experiences to make any decent isk mining you need to be part of a fleet, preferably with an orca booster. I have never mined null but I presume the same holds true. I have an alt that I mainly haul with, he can fly a hulk, and solo mining scordite he may earn ~30mill ISK per hour. That is no gang bonuses and a tanked hulk.
I have no idea the wage gap between 4's and 5's, from my understanding to do 5's with any semblance of efficiency you either need a group or multi-box. As for high sec 4's I see claims of over 100mill ISK per hour, I personally have never seen that much, I get maybe 50-75 per hour depending on the mission, my attention span and how the market is for LP items. If you want to earn money doing level 4's join faction wars and run their level 4's.
I have never ran incursions, my understanding is they are slightly higher than level 4's. As for anom's it has been much too long since I ran one out in null to remember. Anom's in low and null most definitely beat anything you will find in high though.
Exploration is hit or miss, in low sec I have sites where I earn a quick 50 mill in a mag site, the next I get 5-10. The rewards do scale though, meaning you get higher level DED's in low and higher again in null, and the rewards from ladar and mag sites and anoms goes up as well. |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration.
Last month I spent 16 hours exploring Lowsec and reaped 4.5b ISK averaging 280mil ISK/hr. Last month I spent 10 hours exploring Highsec and reaped 1.2b ISK averaging 120mil ISK/hr.
This was the first month I started tracking my ISK/hr while exploring. Given enough data points I will have a reasonably accurate expectation of my average ISK/hr.
Therefore, there is such a thing as ISK/hr when it comes to exploration. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:There's no such thing as isk/hr when it comes to exploration. Last month I spent 16 hours exploring Lowsec and reaped 4.5b ISK averaging 280mil ISK/hr.Last month I spent 10 hours exploring Highsec and reaped 1.2b ISK averaging 120mil ISK/hr.This was the first month I started tracking my ISK/hr while exploring. Given enough data points I will have a reasonably accurate expectation of my average ISK/hr. Therefore, there is such a thing as ISK/hr when it comes to exploration.
yes, because 26 h of exploration is very large timespan. lol
does it mean that when i find a dread gurista rat in lowsec belt that drops 200mil implant i can say i have 200 mil/h from ratting? not really.
and there is no measurement of how much you can get from exploration, simply because there are other people doing the same thing, and if you are in a timezone when there's alot of people doing the same your isk ratio can't be determined. you can say how much you had from exploration in last month and calculate isk/h from your observations, but if suddenly your alliance will have a new corporation, or one corporation will leave and your alliance holds sov, your isk income from exploration will change. |
Bibosikus
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Intrepid Crossing
133
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
I jump to empire and dual-box 3/ or 4/10's in Minnie space because it's different from null (which is good isk but boring) and overall, actually better isk but still boring.. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
5nipe
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.07.28 01:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
You can have an idea what kind of loot and ISK you can get in hi-sec from exploration. The results based on average 3 hours per day "loop scanning" around 10 systems.
Hi-Sec Exploaration Report
At the very present moment there is nothing close to FW in terms of ISK/Hour, ISK/Skills or ISK/Risk.
And it is a lot of fun too
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Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.07.28 02:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
5nipe wrote:You can have an idea what kind of loot and ISK you can get in hi-sec from exploration. The results based on average 3 hours per day "loop scanning" around 10 systems. Hi-Sec Exploaration ReportAt the very present moment there is nothing close to FW in terms of ISK/Hour, ISK/Skills or ISK/Risk. And it is a lot of fun too
I wouldn't say there's nothing like it, but for low SP players, it's untouchable. For others, there's other isk fountains out theres |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
606
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Posted - 2012.07.28 02:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
ITT people thinking you can apply isk/hr numbers to rewards that are based around a RNG and a player run market. |
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Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.07.28 02:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Choose based on your skills, how much time you can play at once, and most importantly what you enjoy the most. They all make decent money. Missions are cool because they are always there immediately, mostly instant payment and no competition from other players to keep you from running them.
Exploration is a lot of fun when you can consistently find sites but it feels like wasted time when you go a couple hours and end up with nothing but a radar site or even nothing at all.
Faction warfare is a lot different now. You have to sit on all of your LP until your faction decides to dump lp and upgrade to t3/4. You also have to consider the time it takes to cash in all of those lp and move the ships/items. I've found FW doesn't pull quite so far ahead when you factor that in.
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5nipe
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.07.28 03:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:
Faction warfare is a lot different now. You have to sit on all of your LP until your faction decides to dump lp and upgrade to t3/4. You also have to consider the time it takes to cash in all of those lp and move the ships/items. I've found FW doesn't pull quite so far ahead when you factor that in.
First of all, you don't have to wait for anything. You can go to faction LP shop any time you want and cash out any number LP you have. May be it it is not the best way to execute your business plan, but nothing stops you collect LP for some time and convert them to ISK when it is most convenient moment.
But with FW you can predict your profit. Stop thinking like a gambler. Do not think how much you miss due low Tier. Think how much you make at most pessimistic rate.
Let's say I want to play tonight 3 hours. With exploration I can make couple billions or end up with almost nothing.
With FW I will probably spend 1.5 hour inside FW plexes making LP. Calculation on lowest possible rate 10.000 LP in 10 min I will make about 100.000 LP. with rate 1:1 (most likely on Tier 1) I get 100 mils. On Tier 5 I can easily cash 500 mils.
So, it is very, very predictable.
Regarding time to convert LP. Last time I had 1.2 Mil Minmatar LP. It took me 1 hour and 15 minutes to cash them at 1:6 rate on Tier 5 and actually get ISK in my valet.
But I still love exploration, especially in low sec.
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Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
230
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Posted - 2012.07.28 05:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:yes, because 26 h of exploration is very large timespan. lol
does it mean that when i find a dread gurista rat in lowsec belt that drops 200mil implant i can say i have 200 mil/h from ratting? not really.
and there is no measurement of how much you can get from exploration, simply because there are other people doing the same thing, and if you are in a timezone when there's alot of people doing the same your isk ratio can't be determined. you can say how much you had from exploration in last month and calculate isk/h from your observations, but if suddenly your alliance will have a new corporation, or one corporation will leave and your alliance holds sov, your isk income from exploration will change.
You're an awfully bad troll. You completely glazed over the part where I said "Given enough data points I will have a reasonably accurate expectation of my ISK/hr." That's how statistics works, comrade. And what the hell does sov holding in nullsec have to do with exploration in High or Lowsec? I mean, other than not a goddamn thing at all. |
dexington
91
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Posted - 2012.07.28 06:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:and there is no measurement of how much you can get from exploration, simply because there are other people doing the same thing, and if you are in a timezone when there's alot of people doing the same your isk ratio can't be determined. you can say how much you had from exploration in last month and calculate isk/h from your observations, but if suddenly your alliance will have a new corporation, or one corporation will leave and your alliance holds sov, your isk income from exploration will change.
You can't determine isk/hr as a number that tells you what you going to earn the next hour, the isk/time ratio tells you what you can expect to earn with in the same amount of time, depending on play style and where you live the optimal time value changes.
Personally i save all loot i find from exploration and sell it once a week, and while there are good and bad weeks there are some clear patterns in the amount of isk i make. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
60
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Posted - 2012.07.28 07:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
dexington wrote:You can't determine isk/hr as a number that tells you what you going to earn the next hour, ..
Or, in statistical terms: Exploration isk/hr has a much larger standard deviation than lv4 hisec mission isk/hr.
Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
60
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Posted - 2012.07.28 07:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:That's how statistics works, comrade.
Humans, by nature, are bad at statistics. This is why lotteries and most other forms of gambling exist. |
dexington
91
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Posted - 2012.07.28 08:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Exploited Engineer wrote:Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated.
It's like calculating the isk/hr of buying a lottery ticket. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Nethrun
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 09:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
dexington wrote:Exploited Engineer wrote:Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated. It's like calculating the isk/hr of buying a lottery ticket.
Yes, you just have to get X Y and you can easily calculate it.. How many tickets do you buy per hour, whats the chance of winning. Im not saying its accurate but if you spend enough time doing it, the drop chances will start to show a tendency or a generalization in the drop patterns. But yeah.. i know what you mean ;) |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
608
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:
You're an awfully bad troll.
You know, just because someone has an opinion that differs from your own and is posted on a spaceship forum, doesn't make them a troll right?
This is a troll:
you're too dumb to know what a troll is
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
608
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Posted - 2012.07.28 13:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
In other news, armchair statisticians unite! |
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