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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.31 21:42:00 -
[31]
Over the past year I have tried to think of ways of making a bank, and most importantly it being profitable for me.
The only way I have ever been able to see it work, is to use proceeds for offering collateral backed loans.
The problem with this is that there are times when the money is dormant and you earn no money on it but pay interest. Secondly if enough account holders ask for their money you could become insolvent quickly.
I found the only solution was to make term limit bonds which are used directly for loans and would be paid back if the money was idle.
Although my approach is not 100% guaranteed to succeed it was the best method I could see for success. This is the way BMBE is sucessfully working also.
Banks are just too difficult in Eve. They require a lot of work, a website, adequate capital, customers, MD on your side....., etc.
Not sure its worth the effort.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.31 21:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xenuria
Confirming my Investment in the Hydra fund
It would appear that Xenuria is still trying to be the new MD idiot who thinks it is their job to spam every thread.
http://eve-search.com/search/Xenuria/forum/3515
Go back to C&P with the other failures.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.08.31 21:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lecherito And so it begins again...
fun fact: Cista made her first MD appearance trying to launch a bank
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Xenuria
Gallente Crossfire Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Bernard Schuyler I am not sure why Xenuria is so upset, but while I still applaud the notion, I think this particular vision is a bit too risky... no personal slight intended on Cista.
Because of Eve's wallet mechanics, a lot of the normal features of a bank really aren't applicable. I don't need a checking account to pay bills, or somewhere to store my cash other than the mattress, or the need to wire monet hither and yon. The wallet does all that.
The bank as proposed doesn't make loans except to the parent company, and a select list of those who have had previous dealings with the investment fund.
So what is left is interest bearing savings. But in this case it sounds more like a giant unsecured bond that Hydra Investments can draw upon as needed, with a rotating pool of depositors who can alter the size of their stake at will. On the downside, they get no collateral and no stake in the investment company.
Why not just raise a month to month unsecured bond or something, and save yourself the hassle of manually performing God knows how many "Teller" transactions a week?
What happens if former investors don't need a loan, or the parent company doesn't need to use any depositor ISK? Then there is no profit generated, and you lose money paying interest on stagnant funds in wallet?
Again, I am an MD noob, and a lot of these discussions are above my head, but wouldn't a more potentially useful bank model in Eve be something that catered to corporations rather than individual investors? Some kind of reserve bank that successful corporations could loan and borrow from for short term isk fluctuation?
It just seems to me that with the way the Wallet functions, the individual savings investor may as well just stick with the normal bond offers and such that are commonly available.
most of the people here have come to the same conclusion and now we are just going to default to trolling the thread and posting false confirmations. I appreciate you trying to shed light on this but with hydra involved there really is no chance for fairness.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xenuria
most of the people here have come to the same conclusion and now we are just going to default to trolling the thread and posting false confirmations. I appreciate you trying to shed light on this but with hydra involved there really is no chance for fairness.
Are you really so stupid to think that this is part of Hydra Reloaded?
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Xenuria
Gallente Crossfire Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Xenuria
most of the people here have come to the same conclusion and now we are just going to default to trolling the thread and posting false confirmations. I appreciate you trying to shed light on this but with hydra involved there really is no chance for fairness.
Are you really so stupid to think that this is part of Hydra Reloaded?
The OP said it was.
Also no I am not going to copy paste it in my reply. Your going to have to embark on the arduous and taxing task of reading before you hit reply.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:39:00 -
[37]
I have a few questions regarding this latest banking offer.
First why do you want to expand into the banking sector? If you're going to offer loans then setting up a loan backed bond would allow you to make the same offering without the risk or reserve requirements. If you are using the bank to acquire more funding then why not just offer new shares of HFS?
Second could you please breakdown the overall investment strategy for this bank? What percentage of funds are set aside for a loan business? What percent go to HFS? Can you also please explain more here about why HFS would be able to scale rapidly up and down to support a banking system?
I would love to see viable banking in EVE. But in light of all the bank failures and scams, I don't see how "random business turned bank" is a smart move. If the hassle of banking is not the only way to acquire the level of funds you need, then it seems like you are setting yourself up for failure. Just remember that every other possible way of acquiring funds is going to be substantially less work then what you are signing yourself up for.
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Sepi
Gamma Draconis Industries Eternus Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:43:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sepi on 31/08/2010 22:43:43
Originally by: Xenuria
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Xenuria
most of the people here have come to the same conclusion and now we are just going to default to trolling the thread and posting false confirmations. I appreciate you trying to shed light on this but with hydra involved there really is no chance for fairness.
Are you really so stupid to think that this is part of Hydra Reloaded?
The OP said it was.
Also no I am not going to copy paste it in my reply. Your going to have to embark on the arduous and taxing task of reading before you hit reply.
Ok for the previous poster to make it easier for you to read i have highlighted any part of the OP that uses the term hydra or any simlar term
and unless im mistaken you sir need to learn to read and not skip read inserting words where they clearly are not. #
Originally by: Cista2 Hydra Financial Services (HFS) is from today providing regular saving accounts to the public.
HFS is a new entity owned 100% by the investors of Hydra Investment Fund (Hydra). HFS has two capacities atm, a) unsecured loans (only to former investors), and b) the new savings accounts.
For you as investor it simply means you have the choice of placing your isk either directly in Hydra, where profit is variable and unknown, or open an account with HFS and receive a certain fixed interest rate. We wish to serve both types of investor.
HFS offers accounts at 2%, 2.5%, or 3% monthly interest. The exact regulations for both Hydra investors and for HFS accounts are found here. You are free to transfer your account between the two branches.
(So why did we suddenly create another enterprise? Sorry if this is confusing: Basically HFS is an administrative tool. Hydra itself belongs to the investors through their shares, shares are created with each deposit, and shares acquire profit. But deposits in HFS do not create shares, HFS accounts do not increase the size of Hydra, and they have no claim to profits. ThatĘs why they are separate entities.)
**************************************************************************
Report on Hydra Fund as of September 1:
The size of the fund is currently 86 bn isk. Liquidity is 24 bn isk. Stock is 16 bpos. 4 bpos were sold in August for a profit of 1.7 bn isk - altogether I have sold 20 bpos for a profit of 9.6 bn.
Share value grew from 1.20 to 1.22 in August.
There are currently 23 investors besides myself. My own share value is 13 bn isk. Other investors besides myself have to date invested 85 bn isk and withdrawn 18 bn isk.
All this can be seen in the accounts spreadsheet. Contact me if you wish to view the accounts.
Predicted share value growth for August is 3 %.
A holding corp has been established to lock down a portion of Hydra assets. Currently it has locked down bpos of a value of 36 bn isk. The trustees are: Breaker77, Dalden V, Kithran, Lord Arbalest, Magnu Stormhawk, RAW23.
Now unless im mistaken not a single reloaded in that, and unless you can re-quote I believe you owe some form of apology for the mistake. (although i doubt this will happen)
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Xenuria
The OP said it was.
Also no I am not going to copy paste it in my reply. Your going to have to embark on the arduous and taxing task of reading before you hit reply.
For the mentally challenged (AKA you)
Originally by: Cista2 Hydra Financial Services (HFS)
HFS is a new entity owned 100% by the investors of Hydra Investment Fund (Hydra).
...directly in Hydra... ...lock down a portion of Hydra assets.
Read the bolded part. Hydra means hydra investment fund, not hydra reloaded.
Now go away...
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sepi Now unless im mistaken not a single reloaded in that, and unless you can re-quote I believe you owe some form of apology for the mistake. (although i doubt this will happen)
Trolls never apologize, they just keep posting what they want to believe even when it's wrong.
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Zea Aestria
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Posted - 2010.08.31 22:56:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Sepi Now unless im mistaken not a single reloaded in that, and unless you can re-quote I believe you owe some form of apology for the mistake. (although i doubt this will happen)
Trolls never apologize, they just keep posting what they want to believe even when it's wrong.
Xenuria was also under the impression that a share in Titans For You entitled you to receive a titan. /eyeroll
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Xenuria
Gallente Crossfire Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.31 23:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zea Aestria
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Sepi Now unless im mistaken not a single reloaded in that, and unless you can re-quote I believe you owe some form of apology for the mistake. (although i doubt this will happen)
Trolls never apologize, they just keep posting what they want to believe even when it's wrong.
Xenuria was also under the impression that a share in Titans For You entitled you to receive a titan. /eyeroll
When I was younger I tried calling bethesda tech support but I didn't dial a 1 (because it didnt say to) and I kept getting some guys cell phone. He got mad at me and I told him a video game company had posted his number on their site.
Even if this is not hydra it still smells like it which is to say if you invest in this you deserve whats coming.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.31 23:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Xenuria
Even if this is not hydra it still smells like it which is to say if you invest in this you deserve whats coming.
This is the most sensible thing you have posted in MD. Congrats and thanks for somewhat sticking to factual info.
IMO, there are a few things Cista could have done differently to get this going. Probably doesn't matter now, but here goes anyway...
1. Started a discussion thread to iron out details a little better.
2. Covered the whole BoD situation, which would have covered the "hit by a bus" scenario. Sure we all know who the BoD members with voting powers are, but even I don't know who, or even if, anyone has an alt in the corp that shares can be sent to to start a CEO takeover vote in the event Cista gets "hit by a bus".
3. While personally I don't doubt Cistas ability to make ISK, even closing out some of his bonds to create a better debt/equity ratio would have looked a little better (this is just my opinion).
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.09.01 05:44:00 -
[44]
Originally by: PinkFish First why do you want to expand into the banking sector? .... If you are using the bank to acquire more funding then why not just offer new shares of HFS?
In the short term there is no reason except to provide another service. We do not need more capital right now as our liquidity is high. But in the long term it may double our value to cater to two different types of investors. Also see response to Breaker below.
Originally by: PinkFish Second could you please breakdown the overall investment strategy for this bank? What percentage of funds are set aside for a loan business?
I have clarified in the charter now that "The deposits in HFS are used by Hydra Fund for its trade." There is no wall between the two entities, only their accounting is performed separately. In that sense, there is no business strategy for HFS, it will act as an extension of the Hydra Fund wallet.
----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.09.01 06:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Breaker77 Sure we all know who the BoD members with voting powers are, but even I don't know who, or even if, anyone has an alt in the corp that shares can be sent to to start a CEO takeover vote in the event Cista gets "hit by a bus".
That's right, sorry, we are still working on that and a mail will be sent around to the trustees soon. Kithran so far is the one with an alt in the corp, but all trustees are encouraged to do the same.
But there is some sense to launching this service "prematurely". You're not an investor, but Hydra doubled in size in August, liquidity skyrocketed, and as a result profits diminished. Our growth needs to be very gradual, and this new service should only provide more capital slowly over the next sixth months, not on launch day.
This is also why there - at least in the beginning - is a delay on the 3% accounts. We don't want too many heavy investors. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Kithran
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Posted - 2010.09.01 07:50:00 -
[46]
Posting to confirm I have an alt in the relevant corp.
Kithran
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Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.01 09:00:00 -
[47]
A few points to note to attempt to shed some light in this dark and troll induced quagmire:
1. The Hydra Investment Fund consists of the pooled ISK of a number of equity investors. 2. It is managed by Cista2, and is evolving in its specifics based on Cista2's ideas, discussed and approved by the equity investors where relevant. 3. Cista2 had an idea to offer a fixed rate investment to potential investors, as a separate option to equity investment. It was anticipated that overall a profit over and above the interest cost would be able to be made, to the benefit of the fund. 4. Cista2 chose to implement this in the form of 'savings accounts', as there was not a specific cash requirement, merely a belief that additional funds could be utilised sufficiently. Perhaps more importantly - in order to try and build the services that the fund is providing. 5. This is not the next superbank. It does not have the security, scale, oversight and reporting structure to be such. 6. The offering is quirky and not to everyone's taste (not at all surprising coming from Cista2). There is a simple solution to this, and I'm not even going to bother coining the phrase.
Despite the trollery there are some valid and constructive points raised in this thread. There are clearly some matters that need further consideration, and Cista2 is in the process of discussing these with the equity investors in order to improve and revise the details of the service where necessary.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.01 12:01:00 -
[48]
Just a heads-up that I'm going to have to pull out of the trustee role for the Hydra fund (as per my mail to Cista). I've just accepted a job that will, on a worst case analysis, take me almost completely out of circulation 3 days a week (870km commute each way ) and that will give me a backlog of other work and family commitments the rest of the week. So, unfortunately eve commitments will have to take a back seat, at least until I have had a bit of experience of how badly this is going to mess with my life. This was the most recent one I had taken on so it will have to be the first to go.
Apologies to all concerned and good luck with the fund!
ps. Don't feed the troll (Xenuria). Or, alternatively, just point and laugh.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.09.07 09:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Cista2 on 07/09/2010 09:12:18
A couple of news items:
In post #2 Pinkerton asked if the HFS account holders will be paid first in a forced liquidation situation. The investors have decided that yes, the HFS accounts will be paid out first. The Hydra investors, as the owners, must bear that responsibility in a crisis. This has been added to the charter.
Also, in light of the T4U failure we have been tightening the setup and regulations of our new bpo lockdown corporation. For the sake of public transparency there will be a forum discussion post about the security aspects coming to you in a few days.
----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.09.07 20:25:00 -
[50]
I have to say that nothing about this screams "must invest!".
Nothing secured. No collateral. No audits. Money deposited may or may not be returned depending entirely on the goodwill of the people running the show. No votes, no shares, no nothing. Low interest rates, board may or may not change the terms after the fact. You have a "dead man's" provision that, again, you could change the terms on that would allow you to harvest the entire operation.
Then there is the statement that Hydra Fund doesn't need the capital currently which begs the question of just why you're bothering and how you plan to pay for the interest.
Then there's the issue of HFS being able to only loan money to investors of the parent fund....
Even if I were to assume, a major assumption at this point, that this isn't a scam there is absolutely nothing being offered that could possibly interest me in it.
...
So what precisely is so attractive about this?
Let's reverse the situation as an example. Let's say I create the Preemptive Paranoia Financial Services Fund and offered the same terms to you. Would you be interested? Why?
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.07 20:35:00 -
[51]
I look forward to the future "EBANK part 2" meltdown thread, and congratulate Cista on whatever billions (s)he manages to acquire through Yet Another Eve Bank.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.07 20:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: pmchem I look forward to the future "EBANK part 2" meltdown thread, and congratulate Cista on whatever billions (s)he manages to acquire through Yet Another Eve Bank.
I have in my hand a little tiny pebble.. when I look at you, then look back to the pebble, then look back to you, then look back to the pebble. I'm perplexed.. I actually can't discern which object has more intelligence, or to which one I have insulted more by comparing you to a little tiny pebble.. Since the pebble in my hand it is real..
Here ya go tiny pebble, I'm sorry I said you where as unintelligent as that other thing..
Amarr for Life |
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CCP Jericho
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Posted - 2010.09.08 05:28:00 -
[53]
Inappropriate post removed.
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Squid Prime
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Posted - 2010.09.08 08:44:00 -
[54]
After more than a dozen very well put questions, the OP barely managed to give some elusive answers and didn't clarify much either. Which leaves a very strong impression this new venture was by no means thoroughly thought, the "plan" is actually made of mere ideas and sketches and the launch was at best a premature one.
In the light of recent events and previous banking attempts (some with way less flaws than yours) I can't see why would anyone use this "service" you provide. It doesn't necessarily yell "scam" but it doesn't say "we're professional" either.
...btw, did this bank hit the news yet?
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.09.08 09:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Squid Prime the "plan" is actually made of mere ideas and sketches and the launch was at best a premature one.
This "launch" does not change much for the Hydra Fund. The object is simply to let it be known that the option for fixed rate accounts is possible for any future (and present) investors. What Magnu Stormhawk posted above describes the situation well.
Scepticism is sound, and I am not posting here to quell people's hesitations. You can simply stay clear and watch the project from the sidelines. But if anyone has specific questions I will certainly try and answer. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.09.08 09:38:00 -
[56]
This will fail, along with all other banks in EVE ---
☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
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