Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 22:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the talks of players wanting T3 battleships, frigates.... any clue if CCP is gonna throw us a bone and put in a T3 mining ship? Seems nothing new has come to miners in years. You can say Orca and Rorqual but they aren't just for one person to use. Its more for mining ops, not *just* the miner. T3 cruisers and i assume T3 battleships and frigates will be for both solo and group play. CCP said they were talking about comets... which sounded exciting and new. I remember a while ago though them saying that it was just talk and its not gonna happen. |
Thomas Newton
Starlight Operations Starlight Network
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was wondering the same. I just got my Hulk and I would be glad to train for a T3 mining ship for an even better yield. |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good. |
Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
T3 mining ships can work on the same principles that T3 cruisers work on: Specialization.
You've already listed 2 possible ones. More yield. Not just more yield in general but more into specific ores. If you are in High Sec, you can 2-3 times the yield just on veld or omber. Switch out sub systems if you are hunting for a different specific ore.
Maybe this could help with the null sec mining problem and make the low end ores there spawn with huge quantities and needing a T3 mining barge with a huge yield to make those low end ores actually worth bothering with.
Cargo hold optimization is another option I'm sure all miners would love it. would help increase the isk/hr with less traveling to/from.
Just like T3 cruisers can ignore bubbles maybe theres a subsystem that lets you get away from warp scramblers in low sec so more miners would move into these systems. Obviously this wouldn't work on the ships specifically designed to lock you down. Maybe the time it takes someone to lock on to you so is greatly increased so you can get away.
With T3 cruisers came W-space to make them. The new T3 battleships/frigates can be made in another fashion that involves needing a T3 mining vessel to get the minerals to manufacture them. Something dynamic and not static so it takes human interaction and is not so easily botted. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 01:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
There can never be more yield than a Hulk. CCP won't accept that, as it would affect the markets.
|
Brock Nelson
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 01:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supporters of T3 Mining Ship has failed to realize that at first, it will bring better yield and therefore better profit but it won't take long for the price of minerals to drop like a rock when more player switch to T3 Barge and increase supply of mineral. |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 01:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
More yield even to specific ores is not going to help, it will just mean people without T3's will earn less. Instead of mining ops with hulks and Orca's/Rorq's you will see them with only T3's instead. The Hulk (except maybe for solo mining) will be pointless as it wont be able to compete with T3's for yield. Unless there was a drawback, like not being able to drop the ore into a can or an Orca/Rorq. By having a ship with more yield than a Hulk will pretty much make them obsolete in one go and then we will have another ship in Eve that isn't worth the minerals it takes to make.
Extra cargo hold at the expense of yield, that would be OK I suppose, but unless you are mining to pass the time rather than make money I cant see it being used. If you ask most full time miners who aren't doing it solo (as in one miner) I bet they don't fit cargo expanders on their Hulks, for the reason that they drop their ore straight into an Orca/Rorq/jet can before their cargo hold will fill up.
The Skiff already has +2 Warp Strength, a mining ship that is immune to bubbles? Honestly if you get bubbled then you are doing it wrong. Remote Sensor Damp increases the time it takes for locking people up or having a small signature radius, however a 'ceptor will still lock you down fast enough.
I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I think you are looking and saying "how could a new ship make me more money by doing the same thing I am doing now, at the prices I am currently getting?" What you are not seeing is the implications of what would happen if something like more yield or bigger cargo would have on the industry. All it would do is push prices down further.
Now if there was a new resource type or a new way to get current resources (see the inclusion of the Drone Regions and the affect they had on mineral prices as an example of how things shouldn't be done) that could only be accessed by using a T3 mining vessel (like a comet as I have previously said) then it would be all good. But having a T3 just replace a current ship by having better attributes would just be silly.
As for making those huge lowend roids that you get in 0.0 worthwhile to actually mine them, then that lies not in creating a bigger more effective miner but altering other things in the game to make mining profitable again. Say making all rats in 0.0 more like the Sleepers so that you cant just sit tanking the initial spawn in a well tanked Hulk or other ship for all eternity. Maybe having the response from the local pirates match the number of ships which are in the belt/anom. So if you had ten Hulks then ten rats of similar ship size would turn up to fight you off and if you brought in more ships they would escalate as well. Maybe they wouldn't be that powerful but it would mean you might actually have logistics ships on hand to help tank the rats and a couple of DPS dealers to kill them. Or making mining more interactive, like to increase yield you solve maths questions or some such that relate to the strip miner in some way (yes, not my best suggestion but you know what I mean, plus it would help with bots). Or make the strip miners so that you actually have to aim them yourself to get the veins of ore in the rocks (like in current mines where you have your shafts to match the veins of the ore in the rock). Or maybe even having the ores completely split up, so only certain ores appear in high/low/null sec (which would be kinda interesting). Or any number of ways that I cant think of and are a hell of a lot better than the ones above but do you get my point?
Having said all that, why not just make a mining Titan with an AoE mining thingy and just DD to hell the belts and solve the problem once and for all, just like Titans did with blob's...oh wait... |
Kasha Belle
On your Left you will See Mars
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
+2 warp strength subsystem would go a long way on a T3 mining ship.
T3 frigates.. cmon who cares ;; there's enough cheap frigates out there: T1 T2 and faction to cater for every situation.... its a stupid meme that's done its rounds. How about some love for the miners please CCp.
And maybe some decent looking ships-- mining barges are ugly as sin |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 03:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kasha, I'm all for having better looking mining ships and ones that can operate under harsher conditions, but as long as they are balanced in line with the current ships we have. If can survive doing some ninja mining in low/null sec awesome providing it doesn't out-mine the current Exhumers. The market would adjust to new influx of minerals if more people are mining previously untapped resources, however this percentage would probably be small overall and not have a massive impact, but larger yield mining ship would have a significant impact.
Specialisation yes, but specialising in something other than just bigger yield.
I think instead of having a new mining ship, why not a mining support ship? Not a hauler or a command ship though, more like what a Logistics ship does for a Battleship. Something that makes it more of a ship. How this would work I don't know but something you could have in your fleet that did more than improve cycle time and range or haul out all your ore.
I don't know, the only thing I can come up with is a ship makes mining more efficient or the lasers of better quality, so when you are mining a roid and the T3 targets the roid (or you) and actives a highslot module instead of Veld you get Dense Veld and it can have like 4 of these modules. That would have an impact on the market but it wouldn't just be a bigger better mining ship it would be something new, something different. Though it would just mean that this ship would be a requirement for any serious miner (or not if the improved yield is less than what you would get if you had another Hulk pilot).
Above is not the best idea by any stretch of the imagination but do you get what I am trying to get at? A new mining ship should either improve the ones we have or fill a role that they cant/don't currently do. |
Kasha Belle
On your Left you will See Mars
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
did post something -- but only CCP could mess up with previewing a post result in it disappearing .. you guys suck dogscocks you really do..
Always ctrl c anything i know .. |
|
White Sharisa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 05:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
IMO the only way they could bring out a better yield miner without lowering prices is to release it in conjunction with other ships/items that require an excessive amount of minerals to create more need for ore mined to balance the influx of more minerals to the market. |
Talon Kitsune
Ryu-Shirudo
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 05:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
My view on a T3 Mining Ship:
4 High Slots 3 For Strippers, 1 for Cloak/Drone Aug/Etc 6 Mid Slots Gives more flexibility in builds, mostly just allows for a stronger tank. Let's face it, combat ships keep getting meaner. 4 Low Slots But restrict like 2 MLU's to them so you don't up the yield. (More Yield is bad idea). Gives some room for more tank or PDU's, Cargo Expanders, etc.
Base Cargo of like 12,000-15,000m3 to allow for more than one cycle before having to jet/transfer/run back. Get the drone bay up to say 100m3.
Basically it's about giving miners a little more survivability and flexibility, which in turn encourages us to do more then Veldspar farm. |
Thomas Newton
Starlight Operations Starlight Network
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 11:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
A capability to control 10 mining drones but only 5 combat drones as usual ships, 5 mining drones are useful but 10 would better. |
Rosenkranz
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 14:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
The trouble with Exhumers is that they got cheap after invention came out. Then hulks became standard equipment in high sec mining. Prior to that exhumers were too expensive for the typical solo-miner or bot-miner.
When something becomes standard equipment then, by definition, it's no longer elite. I should think, as long as the bar is set high enough, both in terms of skills needed and resources to build, then T3GÇÖs could boost mining yields and not impact the markets too much. Like anything, it would be a balancing act.
Now, the idea for T3 is a more modular ship.
Some combos could favorGǪ. Ninja mining. Yield vs Cargo Cargo or Yield vs Survival or Range Strip mining vs Drone mining
The combos could be endless. IGÇÖm stuck in a hulk frame of mind since thatGÇÖs what IGÇÖve used for so many years, but thatGÇÖs the problem after all. WeGÇÖve all been a bit stuck for a long time.
But, what I know is that exhumers used to be elite and arenGÇÖt anymore. We need something to be elite.
|
coolzero
Independent Miners Guild Guild Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good.
better tank!!!!..........
maby a bit more cargo or some utility slot like cloak/probe launcher/gas miners.
keep the yield the same whatever just give it a better tank |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 19:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
How about this?
Some things this ship could do (not all at once, but its various subsystems provide these bonuses):
-ninja low/null for mining -solid tank -ECM potential -gang link potential similar to T3 -decent miner (just above a covetor with max skills/gear) -drone bonus (up to 10 mining drones, but only up to 5 combat drones) -gas cloud harvester -dedicated specific cargo bays -probing bonus for finding ladar/gravimetric sites |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 19:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:With the talks of players wanting T3 battleships, frigates....
T3 Frigates are an answer to a question NObody is asking.
Tenchi Sal wrote: You can say Orca and Rorqual but they aren't just for one person to use.
The Orca can be converted to fit a 100 mn MWD and makes an excellent 'really fast small freighter'.
Has anyone posting even actually FLOWN a T3 Cruiser ???
If you did, you would realize the instant uselessness of a T3 Frigate. And making BS as T3 would really put them power-wise more in the class of a Dread or something and that will be too much in High-Sec for operations there.
So, going on the 5 possible subsystems, where is there any advantage to any of them for mining ? More CPU ? Covert Configuration ?
Any kind of mining volume INCREASE I am HIGHLY opposed to. It's already plenty fast with the Hulk/Orca pairing, and any more volume WILL crash the markets.....AND help the botting miners grab even more more easily.
Maybe a slightly more 'tankeable' Hulk variant would work. As far as GasHarvesting goes.......it's just fine with the ships we have that can fit 5 Harvester II's.
I'm a hardcore industrialist and this is just a really bad idea. This would FUBAR the market from the flood of minerals which is already out of hand. |
Barakach
Dynamic International Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 21:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Like other have said, anything that increase mineral supply by more than a few percent could just cause the prices to drop and you'll be right back where you started.
I would say something that adds convenience. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 22:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thomas Newton wrote:A capability to control 10 mining drones but only 5 combat drones as usual ships, 5 mining drones are useful but 10 would better. I'd like that, even if it only had 2 strips. Better tank too of course. |
MortisLegati
Calidari Industrial Manufacturing Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 02:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:
I think instead of having a new mining ship, why not a mining support ship? Not a hauler or a command ship though, more like what a Logistics ship does for a Battleship. Something that makes it more of a ship. How this would work I don't know but something you could have in your fleet that did more than improve cycle time and range or haul out all your ore.
I don't know, the only thing I can come up with is a ship makes mining more efficient or the lasers of better quality, so when you are mining a roid and the T3 targets the roid (or you) and actives a highslot module instead of Veld you get Dense Veld and it can have like 4 of these modules. That would have an impact on the market but it wouldn't just be a bigger better mining ship it would be something new, something different. Though it would just mean that this ship would be a requirement for any serious miner (or not if the improved yield is less than what you would get if you had another Hulk pilot).
Above is not the best idea by any stretch of the imagination but do you get what I am trying to get at? A new mining ship should either improve the ones we have or fill a role that they cant/don't currently do.
Inline compression: Sweet baby jesus. 10% less yield in M-¦ but for an ore 10% more dense at the refinery? That's perhaps one of the better ideas I've heard for T3 miners. It would be a bonus in terms of hauling, which is an integral component of many mining setups, but it wouldn't increase yield (which, from an economics standpoint, is a Bad Thing.)
There's a lot of THIS awesome thing OR THIS awesome thing that has to be considered when one looks at T3. I think a lot of the fallacies that appear when people are talking about T3 is that they want these ships to do EVERYTHING that COULD be possible with ALL of the configurations. |
|
WHDolphin
W.H. Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 09:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
coolzero wrote:beor oranes wrote:What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good. better tank!!!!.......... maby a bit more cargo or some utility slot like cloak/probe launcher/gas miners. keep the yield the same whatever just give it a better tank
I Agree, You can take a Battle Ship in both High and Low Sec Space. Us Miners would not last very Long in Low Sec Due to the Fact you cant make a Mining Ship into a Tank. A T3 Mining Ship schould be able to mine as well as the T2 and Tank as Good as a Battle Ship. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 10:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
GROWL! My long post just got eaten by the CCP forum monster!!
Shortened reply:
'Let sleeping dogs lie.' With memories of the PI and ship docking/spinning/CQ updates I would suggest we do not ask CCP to fix mining as it is not broken.
I don't think T3 mining ships are required. Any additional hold capacity or increased tanking ability will both result directly or indirectly in increased yield which in turn will bring a drop in ore prices. Bad for the mining community and a bad idea.
I would favour more 'eye candy' though. Possible ideas could be another ship in the Interbus line - maybe a larger courier vessel in that lovely gold colour. . I also still like the idea of the 'Yuh' Minmatar Cargo ship that was a runner up in a ship design contest a while back. It had advertising hoardings along the side for Quafe etc but these could be used,maybe on a hiring basis, to advertise alliances/corporations. Would be another isk sink which we are told could be needed. |
Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 11:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
i've tried write two long posts already in this thread and each one was magically deleted during posting, so i'll make this reply short.
to everyone who keeps saying that there would be huge drops in prices for minerals. i'd like you to take the time and look at the introduction of the Orca. almost every hulk i see now has an accompanying Orca with it. I quit about a year and half ago and came back last month. since then the Orcas i've seen in space have sky rocketed. the mineral prices are HIGHER now then they were when i left. Orca increases the yield and reduces the time it takes to haul.
miners need something new. PVE players have incursions @ 100mil+ an hour in high sec. PVPers had FW(before it died) and new sov mechanics. they are even getting new rebalances to their super cap problems. miners have got.....? nothing. no new system.
a new system for mining is needed. a new DYNAMIC system where it requires human interaction to combat the miners biggest problem: bots. with all other players begging for new ships in eve, those new ships can be built with new minerals from a new system for miners. |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Moar yield? That's not very T3. However, like the strat cruisers, subsystems as added to an industrial ship?
Big cargo capacity, ability to fit strip miners, and maybe a cruiser slot layout. Then subsystems for mining, hauling, covert stuff, warp stabilisation, defense, maybe drones? Maybe make the strip miners dependent on the mining subsystem. Could take the covert one straight from the T3 cruisers, possibly. Maybe a black ops jump drive/jump bridge? Or just the ability to use the bridge with the covert subsystem? Shouldn't have more yield than a hulk, but should be tankier and faster. |
Zakarumit CZ
Cold Steel Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ok, there were several good ideas about new mining vessels and bad ones. I think good ideas are that a new cool mining vessel should be really something elite. Something really expensive and really skill intensive. So the person who flies it will be proud to fly it and will be looking forward to fly it again. It doesnt need some better yield then hulk. I think some t3 base can be good-it will be expensive and after introducing few more skills (expensive and long to train) it will be elite. There were some good ideas about what subsystems can do. Allow miners to go to low sec and do some bussiness here. Give them enough tank/firepower/agility to at least have a chance to survive. Give them opportunity to use tons of mining drones instead of strips. Let them use cloak etc. It will produce a lot of fun and possibilities. And thats what old miners need. I started with mining when I entered EVE, made my first ISK via mining and finally made tons of ISK with hulk in empire as well as in null. But eventually you got pretty much bored, especially if you are alone. That leads me to another solution. Yeah, CCP, make a brand new mining system. As someone mentioned, make some minign system where miner will actually need to think a bit. And system where he will have possibilities how to improve his yield when he is clever and possibility to ruin his wallet when hes ass. For example as someone mentioned the system with roids and their veins. I can imagine roids turned into some 'new small planets' where you can see different ores abundance and you will be able to aim strips and decide which place is the best... There are nearly infinite possibilities what to do in order to turn mining into actually more exciting thing. I can imagine even more effects (asteroids splitting, flyign away, exploding...). And yes, for gods sake, add at least a captcha here when not something much more user friendly in order to prevent botting and letting true miners to enjoy mining as well as the fruits that it gives out. |
AtaSaal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 23:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
My Idea for a T3 is a bit mad...
You build a core hull, like current T3 Cruiser. The Modulcomponents are not produced, they are salvaged. From wrecks of Dreadnaughts and Carriers! So the new T3 Miner would be a jury rigged capital ship. The bottleneck would be Modulproduction.
Sample Abilites of Modules: - Using Carrier-Modul for using dronified Miningfrigs. - Asteroidtanking, drawing Asteroids to the ship as big rock-shields, reducing damage from Capitalships and Fighter-Bombers signifcantly - Opening Jumpbridges for Industrials, Exhumers - Cometrider, scanning of Comets, jump to them and dragging them into a belt - Beltpusher, starting on side of the Belt and pushing all Asteroids together into a big ball. - Temporary PoS, anchoring in Belt or arround a Planet with the Option to anchor moduls.
Big and mad. :) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 04:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
AtaSaal wrote:My Idea for a T3 is a bit mad...
- Asteroidtanking, drawing Asteroids to the ship as big rock-shields, reducing damage from Capitalships and Fighter-Bombers signifcantly
Although ridiculous, this would be an absolute MindFrack
....and trippy as heck to watch !!! Double -
Thanks for thinking outside the box................CCP could USE some more ideas, even if sounding initially silly.....potential IS there. God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
62
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think expanding the current t3 subsystems to include industrial subsystems that fit on the current t3 ships is a way more elegant and probably easier way
What miners really are asking for is a ship that can tank the battleship spawns in nullsec or has a better chance of surviving a gank than the current hulk Yes you can tank battleship spawns and yes you can survive suicide ganks but this is at the cost of mining efficiency
What i am thinking about is a industrial miningsub system that replaves the offensive subsystem with 4 high slots 3 for strip miners and one utility slot ( maybe for a cloak or a salvager Bonus should be good but not better than the hulk
another subsystem that replaces the propulson subsystem with a much larger cargo hold and maybe a spacial hold to carry your mining cruystals
thzy all fit on the current t3 hulls and they need 2 new subsystem skills , which you need to leanr besides all the current t3 skills
The other subsystems can be be used since they only add to the defense and survivabillity of the ship
Voila there is my idea about a t3 miner simple , elegant and much easier than designing a new ship all the way from the ground up
of course you do realize that these ships will probably attract more suicidegankers/ griefers/ than a normal hulk I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
WHDolphin
W.H. Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Although ridiculous, this would be an absolute MindFrack
....and trippy as heck to watch !!! Double -
Thanks for thinking outside the box................CCP could USE some more ideas, even if sounding initially silly.....potential IS there.[/quote]
Ok lets Truely be out of the Box and Ridiculous Take the Price and Body (with shild, Armor, & Structure) of a Freighter Give it the layout of lets say a Marauder with the Mining Abiltys of a Hulk. And Call it a T3 Mining Ship! |
Xavier Linx
Omni Research
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 10:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like Idea of modular builds and I think that mining ships can gain more than the T3's of today, even with the same type of module. Ebedded core stab and immunity to bubbles would be great for 0.0 or WH survival and support. A mod for in-miner refining would be great aswell.
In high sec mabe an extended ore hold or specialization on Ice mining / refining. There are other role modules I could think of aswell: Embedded factory for small scale production (Ammo). Extra high slot fittings for more yield, Jump drive, stealth mod.
Yes, any introduction of new industry always has the potential to change the economic landscape of Eve, if you have kept your attention to the market over the last cpl years you know that every patch have affected the markets, some times profoundly. So thats not even a valid argument, IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |