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Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
5
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Posted - 2011.09.23 22:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the talks of players wanting T3 battleships, frigates.... any clue if CCP is gonna throw us a bone and put in a T3 mining ship? Seems nothing new has come to miners in years. You can say Orca and Rorqual but they aren't just for one person to use. Its more for mining ops, not *just* the miner. T3 cruisers and i assume T3 battleships and frigates will be for both solo and group play. CCP said they were talking about comets... which sounded exciting and new. I remember a while ago though them saying that it was just talk and its not gonna happen. |
Thomas Newton
Starlight Operations Starlight Network
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 23:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was wondering the same. I just got my Hulk and I would be glad to train for a T3 mining ship for an even better yield. |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 23:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good. |
Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
T3 mining ships can work on the same principles that T3 cruisers work on: Specialization.
You've already listed 2 possible ones. More yield. Not just more yield in general but more into specific ores. If you are in High Sec, you can 2-3 times the yield just on veld or omber. Switch out sub systems if you are hunting for a different specific ore.
Maybe this could help with the null sec mining problem and make the low end ores there spawn with huge quantities and needing a T3 mining barge with a huge yield to make those low end ores actually worth bothering with.
Cargo hold optimization is another option I'm sure all miners would love it. would help increase the isk/hr with less traveling to/from.
Just like T3 cruisers can ignore bubbles maybe theres a subsystem that lets you get away from warp scramblers in low sec so more miners would move into these systems. Obviously this wouldn't work on the ships specifically designed to lock you down. Maybe the time it takes someone to lock on to you so is greatly increased so you can get away.
With T3 cruisers came W-space to make them. The new T3 battleships/frigates can be made in another fashion that involves needing a T3 mining vessel to get the minerals to manufacture them. Something dynamic and not static so it takes human interaction and is not so easily botted. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
37
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Posted - 2011.09.24 01:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
There can never be more yield than a Hulk. CCP won't accept that, as it would affect the markets.
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Brock Nelson
15
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Posted - 2011.09.24 01:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supporters of T3 Mining Ship has failed to realize that at first, it will bring better yield and therefore better profit but it won't take long for the price of minerals to drop like a rock when more player switch to T3 Barge and increase supply of mineral. |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
4
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Posted - 2011.09.24 01:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
More yield even to specific ores is not going to help, it will just mean people without T3's will earn less. Instead of mining ops with hulks and Orca's/Rorq's you will see them with only T3's instead. The Hulk (except maybe for solo mining) will be pointless as it wont be able to compete with T3's for yield. Unless there was a drawback, like not being able to drop the ore into a can or an Orca/Rorq. By having a ship with more yield than a Hulk will pretty much make them obsolete in one go and then we will have another ship in Eve that isn't worth the minerals it takes to make.
Extra cargo hold at the expense of yield, that would be OK I suppose, but unless you are mining to pass the time rather than make money I cant see it being used. If you ask most full time miners who aren't doing it solo (as in one miner) I bet they don't fit cargo expanders on their Hulks, for the reason that they drop their ore straight into an Orca/Rorq/jet can before their cargo hold will fill up.
The Skiff already has +2 Warp Strength, a mining ship that is immune to bubbles? Honestly if you get bubbled then you are doing it wrong. Remote Sensor Damp increases the time it takes for locking people up or having a small signature radius, however a 'ceptor will still lock you down fast enough.
I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I think you are looking and saying "how could a new ship make me more money by doing the same thing I am doing now, at the prices I am currently getting?" What you are not seeing is the implications of what would happen if something like more yield or bigger cargo would have on the industry. All it would do is push prices down further.
Now if there was a new resource type or a new way to get current resources (see the inclusion of the Drone Regions and the affect they had on mineral prices as an example of how things shouldn't be done) that could only be accessed by using a T3 mining vessel (like a comet as I have previously said) then it would be all good. But having a T3 just replace a current ship by having better attributes would just be silly.
As for making those huge lowend roids that you get in 0.0 worthwhile to actually mine them, then that lies not in creating a bigger more effective miner but altering other things in the game to make mining profitable again. Say making all rats in 0.0 more like the Sleepers so that you cant just sit tanking the initial spawn in a well tanked Hulk or other ship for all eternity. Maybe having the response from the local pirates match the number of ships which are in the belt/anom. So if you had ten Hulks then ten rats of similar ship size would turn up to fight you off and if you brought in more ships they would escalate as well. Maybe they wouldn't be that powerful but it would mean you might actually have logistics ships on hand to help tank the rats and a couple of DPS dealers to kill them. Or making mining more interactive, like to increase yield you solve maths questions or some such that relate to the strip miner in some way (yes, not my best suggestion but you know what I mean, plus it would help with bots). Or make the strip miners so that you actually have to aim them yourself to get the veins of ore in the rocks (like in current mines where you have your shafts to match the veins of the ore in the rock). Or maybe even having the ores completely split up, so only certain ores appear in high/low/null sec (which would be kinda interesting). Or any number of ways that I cant think of and are a hell of a lot better than the ones above but do you get my point?
Having said all that, why not just make a mining Titan with an AoE mining thingy and just DD to hell the belts and solve the problem once and for all, just like Titans did with blob's...oh wait... |
Kasha Belle
On your Left you will See Mars
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 02:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
+2 warp strength subsystem would go a long way on a T3 mining ship.
T3 frigates.. cmon who cares ;; there's enough cheap frigates out there: T1 T2 and faction to cater for every situation.... its a stupid meme that's done its rounds. How about some love for the miners please CCp.
And maybe some decent looking ships-- mining barges are ugly as sin |
beor oranes
The Capitalist Protectorate Mad Scientists
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 03:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kasha, I'm all for having better looking mining ships and ones that can operate under harsher conditions, but as long as they are balanced in line with the current ships we have. If can survive doing some ninja mining in low/null sec awesome providing it doesn't out-mine the current Exhumers. The market would adjust to new influx of minerals if more people are mining previously untapped resources, however this percentage would probably be small overall and not have a massive impact, but larger yield mining ship would have a significant impact.
Specialisation yes, but specialising in something other than just bigger yield.
I think instead of having a new mining ship, why not a mining support ship? Not a hauler or a command ship though, more like what a Logistics ship does for a Battleship. Something that makes it more of a ship. How this would work I don't know but something you could have in your fleet that did more than improve cycle time and range or haul out all your ore.
I don't know, the only thing I can come up with is a ship makes mining more efficient or the lasers of better quality, so when you are mining a roid and the T3 targets the roid (or you) and actives a highslot module instead of Veld you get Dense Veld and it can have like 4 of these modules. That would have an impact on the market but it wouldn't just be a bigger better mining ship it would be something new, something different. Though it would just mean that this ship would be a requirement for any serious miner (or not if the improved yield is less than what you would get if you had another Hulk pilot).
Above is not the best idea by any stretch of the imagination but do you get what I am trying to get at? A new mining ship should either improve the ones we have or fill a role that they cant/don't currently do. |
Kasha Belle
On your Left you will See Mars
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
did post something -- but only CCP could mess up with previewing a post result in it disappearing .. you guys suck dogscocks you really do..
Always ctrl c anything i know .. |
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White Sharisa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 05:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
IMO the only way they could bring out a better yield miner without lowering prices is to release it in conjunction with other ships/items that require an excessive amount of minerals to create more need for ore mined to balance the influx of more minerals to the market. |
Talon Kitsune
Ryu-Shirudo
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 05:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
My view on a T3 Mining Ship:
4 High Slots 3 For Strippers, 1 for Cloak/Drone Aug/Etc 6 Mid Slots Gives more flexibility in builds, mostly just allows for a stronger tank. Let's face it, combat ships keep getting meaner. 4 Low Slots But restrict like 2 MLU's to them so you don't up the yield. (More Yield is bad idea). Gives some room for more tank or PDU's, Cargo Expanders, etc.
Base Cargo of like 12,000-15,000m3 to allow for more than one cycle before having to jet/transfer/run back. Get the drone bay up to say 100m3.
Basically it's about giving miners a little more survivability and flexibility, which in turn encourages us to do more then Veldspar farm. |
Thomas Newton
Starlight Operations Starlight Network
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 11:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
A capability to control 10 mining drones but only 5 combat drones as usual ships, 5 mining drones are useful but 10 would better. |
Rosenkranz
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 14:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
The trouble with Exhumers is that they got cheap after invention came out. Then hulks became standard equipment in high sec mining. Prior to that exhumers were too expensive for the typical solo-miner or bot-miner.
When something becomes standard equipment then, by definition, it's no longer elite. I should think, as long as the bar is set high enough, both in terms of skills needed and resources to build, then T3GÇÖs could boost mining yields and not impact the markets too much. Like anything, it would be a balancing act.
Now, the idea for T3 is a more modular ship.
Some combos could favorGǪ. Ninja mining. Yield vs Cargo Cargo or Yield vs Survival or Range Strip mining vs Drone mining
The combos could be endless. IGÇÖm stuck in a hulk frame of mind since thatGÇÖs what IGÇÖve used for so many years, but thatGÇÖs the problem after all. WeGÇÖve all been a bit stuck for a long time.
But, what I know is that exhumers used to be elite and arenGÇÖt anymore. We need something to be elite.
|
coolzero
Independent Miners Guild Guild Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 16:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good.
better tank!!!!..........
maby a bit more cargo or some utility slot like cloak/probe launcher/gas miners.
keep the yield the same whatever just give it a better tank |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
72
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 19:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
How about this?
Some things this ship could do (not all at once, but its various subsystems provide these bonuses):
-ninja low/null for mining -solid tank -ECM potential -gang link potential similar to T3 -decent miner (just above a covetor with max skills/gear) -drone bonus (up to 10 mining drones, but only up to 5 combat drones) -gas cloud harvester -dedicated specific cargo bays -probing bonus for finding ladar/gravimetric sites |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 19:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:With the talks of players wanting T3 battleships, frigates....
T3 Frigates are an answer to a question NObody is asking.
Tenchi Sal wrote: You can say Orca and Rorqual but they aren't just for one person to use.
The Orca can be converted to fit a 100 mn MWD and makes an excellent 'really fast small freighter'.
Has anyone posting even actually FLOWN a T3 Cruiser ???
If you did, you would realize the instant uselessness of a T3 Frigate. And making BS as T3 would really put them power-wise more in the class of a Dread or something and that will be too much in High-Sec for operations there.
So, going on the 5 possible subsystems, where is there any advantage to any of them for mining ? More CPU ? Covert Configuration ?
Any kind of mining volume INCREASE I am HIGHLY opposed to. It's already plenty fast with the Hulk/Orca pairing, and any more volume WILL crash the markets.....AND help the botting miners grab even more more easily.
Maybe a slightly more 'tankeable' Hulk variant would work. As far as GasHarvesting goes.......it's just fine with the ships we have that can fit 5 Harvester II's.
I'm a hardcore industrialist and this is just a really bad idea. This would FUBAR the market from the flood of minerals which is already out of hand. |
Barakach
Dynamic International Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 21:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Like other have said, anything that increase mineral supply by more than a few percent could just cause the prices to drop and you'll be right back where you started.
I would say something that adds convenience. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 22:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thomas Newton wrote:A capability to control 10 mining drones but only 5 combat drones as usual ships, 5 mining drones are useful but 10 would better. I'd like that, even if it only had 2 strips. Better tank too of course. |
MortisLegati
Calidari Industrial Manufacturing Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 02:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:
I think instead of having a new mining ship, why not a mining support ship? Not a hauler or a command ship though, more like what a Logistics ship does for a Battleship. Something that makes it more of a ship. How this would work I don't know but something you could have in your fleet that did more than improve cycle time and range or haul out all your ore.
I don't know, the only thing I can come up with is a ship makes mining more efficient or the lasers of better quality, so when you are mining a roid and the T3 targets the roid (or you) and actives a highslot module instead of Veld you get Dense Veld and it can have like 4 of these modules. That would have an impact on the market but it wouldn't just be a bigger better mining ship it would be something new, something different. Though it would just mean that this ship would be a requirement for any serious miner (or not if the improved yield is less than what you would get if you had another Hulk pilot).
Above is not the best idea by any stretch of the imagination but do you get what I am trying to get at? A new mining ship should either improve the ones we have or fill a role that they cant/don't currently do.
Inline compression: Sweet baby jesus. 10% less yield in M-¦ but for an ore 10% more dense at the refinery? That's perhaps one of the better ideas I've heard for T3 miners. It would be a bonus in terms of hauling, which is an integral component of many mining setups, but it wouldn't increase yield (which, from an economics standpoint, is a Bad Thing.)
There's a lot of THIS awesome thing OR THIS awesome thing that has to be considered when one looks at T3. I think a lot of the fallacies that appear when people are talking about T3 is that they want these ships to do EVERYTHING that COULD be possible with ALL of the configurations. |
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WHDolphin
W.H. Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 09:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
coolzero wrote:beor oranes wrote:What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good. better tank!!!!.......... maby a bit more cargo or some utility slot like cloak/probe launcher/gas miners. keep the yield the same whatever just give it a better tank
I Agree, You can take a Battle Ship in both High and Low Sec Space. Us Miners would not last very Long in Low Sec Due to the Fact you cant make a Mining Ship into a Tank. A T3 Mining Ship schould be able to mine as well as the T2 and Tank as Good as a Battle Ship. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 10:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
GROWL! My long post just got eaten by the CCP forum monster!!
Shortened reply:
'Let sleeping dogs lie.' With memories of the PI and ship docking/spinning/CQ updates I would suggest we do not ask CCP to fix mining as it is not broken.
I don't think T3 mining ships are required. Any additional hold capacity or increased tanking ability will both result directly or indirectly in increased yield which in turn will bring a drop in ore prices. Bad for the mining community and a bad idea.
I would favour more 'eye candy' though. Possible ideas could be another ship in the Interbus line - maybe a larger courier vessel in that lovely gold colour. . I also still like the idea of the 'Yuh' Minmatar Cargo ship that was a runner up in a ship design contest a while back. It had advertising hoardings along the side for Quafe etc but these could be used,maybe on a hiring basis, to advertise alliances/corporations. Would be another isk sink which we are told could be needed. |
Tenchi Sal
DeathStar Systems
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 11:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
i've tried write two long posts already in this thread and each one was magically deleted during posting, so i'll make this reply short.
to everyone who keeps saying that there would be huge drops in prices for minerals. i'd like you to take the time and look at the introduction of the Orca. almost every hulk i see now has an accompanying Orca with it. I quit about a year and half ago and came back last month. since then the Orcas i've seen in space have sky rocketed. the mineral prices are HIGHER now then they were when i left. Orca increases the yield and reduces the time it takes to haul.
miners need something new. PVE players have incursions @ 100mil+ an hour in high sec. PVPers had FW(before it died) and new sov mechanics. they are even getting new rebalances to their super cap problems. miners have got.....? nothing. no new system.
a new system for mining is needed. a new DYNAMIC system where it requires human interaction to combat the miners biggest problem: bots. with all other players begging for new ships in eve, those new ships can be built with new minerals from a new system for miners. |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Moar yield? That's not very T3. However, like the strat cruisers, subsystems as added to an industrial ship?
Big cargo capacity, ability to fit strip miners, and maybe a cruiser slot layout. Then subsystems for mining, hauling, covert stuff, warp stabilisation, defense, maybe drones? Maybe make the strip miners dependent on the mining subsystem. Could take the covert one straight from the T3 cruisers, possibly. Maybe a black ops jump drive/jump bridge? Or just the ability to use the bridge with the covert subsystem? Shouldn't have more yield than a hulk, but should be tankier and faster. |
Zakarumit CZ
Cold Steel Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ok, there were several good ideas about new mining vessels and bad ones. I think good ideas are that a new cool mining vessel should be really something elite. Something really expensive and really skill intensive. So the person who flies it will be proud to fly it and will be looking forward to fly it again. It doesnt need some better yield then hulk. I think some t3 base can be good-it will be expensive and after introducing few more skills (expensive and long to train) it will be elite. There were some good ideas about what subsystems can do. Allow miners to go to low sec and do some bussiness here. Give them enough tank/firepower/agility to at least have a chance to survive. Give them opportunity to use tons of mining drones instead of strips. Let them use cloak etc. It will produce a lot of fun and possibilities. And thats what old miners need. I started with mining when I entered EVE, made my first ISK via mining and finally made tons of ISK with hulk in empire as well as in null. But eventually you got pretty much bored, especially if you are alone. That leads me to another solution. Yeah, CCP, make a brand new mining system. As someone mentioned, make some minign system where miner will actually need to think a bit. And system where he will have possibilities how to improve his yield when he is clever and possibility to ruin his wallet when hes ass. For example as someone mentioned the system with roids and their veins. I can imagine roids turned into some 'new small planets' where you can see different ores abundance and you will be able to aim strips and decide which place is the best... There are nearly infinite possibilities what to do in order to turn mining into actually more exciting thing. I can imagine even more effects (asteroids splitting, flyign away, exploding...). And yes, for gods sake, add at least a captcha here when not something much more user friendly in order to prevent botting and letting true miners to enjoy mining as well as the fruits that it gives out. |
AtaSaal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 23:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
My Idea for a T3 is a bit mad...
You build a core hull, like current T3 Cruiser. The Modulcomponents are not produced, they are salvaged. From wrecks of Dreadnaughts and Carriers! So the new T3 Miner would be a jury rigged capital ship. The bottleneck would be Modulproduction.
Sample Abilites of Modules: - Using Carrier-Modul for using dronified Miningfrigs. - Asteroidtanking, drawing Asteroids to the ship as big rock-shields, reducing damage from Capitalships and Fighter-Bombers signifcantly - Opening Jumpbridges for Industrials, Exhumers - Cometrider, scanning of Comets, jump to them and dragging them into a belt - Beltpusher, starting on side of the Belt and pushing all Asteroids together into a big ball. - Temporary PoS, anchoring in Belt or arround a Planet with the Option to anchor moduls.
Big and mad. :) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 04:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
AtaSaal wrote:My Idea for a T3 is a bit mad...
- Asteroidtanking, drawing Asteroids to the ship as big rock-shields, reducing damage from Capitalships and Fighter-Bombers signifcantly
Although ridiculous, this would be an absolute MindFrack
....and trippy as heck to watch !!! Double -
Thanks for thinking outside the box................CCP could USE some more ideas, even if sounding initially silly.....potential IS there. God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
62
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think expanding the current t3 subsystems to include industrial subsystems that fit on the current t3 ships is a way more elegant and probably easier way
What miners really are asking for is a ship that can tank the battleship spawns in nullsec or has a better chance of surviving a gank than the current hulk Yes you can tank battleship spawns and yes you can survive suicide ganks but this is at the cost of mining efficiency
What i am thinking about is a industrial miningsub system that replaves the offensive subsystem with 4 high slots 3 for strip miners and one utility slot ( maybe for a cloak or a salvager Bonus should be good but not better than the hulk
another subsystem that replaces the propulson subsystem with a much larger cargo hold and maybe a spacial hold to carry your mining cruystals
thzy all fit on the current t3 hulls and they need 2 new subsystem skills , which you need to leanr besides all the current t3 skills
The other subsystems can be be used since they only add to the defense and survivabillity of the ship
Voila there is my idea about a t3 miner simple , elegant and much easier than designing a new ship all the way from the ground up
of course you do realize that these ships will probably attract more suicidegankers/ griefers/ than a normal hulk I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
WHDolphin
W.H. Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Although ridiculous, this would be an absolute MindFrack
....and trippy as heck to watch !!! Double -
Thanks for thinking outside the box................CCP could USE some more ideas, even if sounding initially silly.....potential IS there.[/quote]
Ok lets Truely be out of the Box and Ridiculous Take the Price and Body (with shild, Armor, & Structure) of a Freighter Give it the layout of lets say a Marauder with the Mining Abiltys of a Hulk. And Call it a T3 Mining Ship! |
Xavier Linx
Omni Research
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 10:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like Idea of modular builds and I think that mining ships can gain more than the T3's of today, even with the same type of module. Ebedded core stab and immunity to bubbles would be great for 0.0 or WH survival and support. A mod for in-miner refining would be great aswell.
In high sec mabe an extended ore hold or specialization on Ice mining / refining. There are other role modules I could think of aswell: Embedded factory for small scale production (Ammo). Extra high slot fittings for more yield, Jump drive, stealth mod.
Yes, any introduction of new industry always has the potential to change the economic landscape of Eve, if you have kept your attention to the market over the last cpl years you know that every patch have affected the markets, some times profoundly. So thats not even a valid argument, IMO.
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Koen L
Galactic Defence Consortium United Pod Service
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 11:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
A tech 3 Mining ship should make mining in 0.0 space more attractive for (high sec) miners. Doesnt really need to make more yield in general, but being specialized in abc ores and stealth mining would be interesting. It should balance the fact that ratting in 0.0 is more attractive then mining at all.
I have seen so many 0.0 systems with full rich belts of best ore but nobody is mining it. Tech 3 Ships could make mining more interesting and lucrativ if done right. I like the idea of stealth mode for those ships, better combat abilities and higher tank plus versatility for special tasks. Fit it for one type of ore with a good tank and able to disappear fast if uncovered, or being able to defend against attackers. Make it elite. Make it expensive. Make it fast. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 12:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
/me wants sniper miner to kill rocks from mad range... and maybe a clocking device too. |
AureoLion
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 14:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
In order to implement one, especially if it has an increased yield, one of those four is needed: Bump-up of mineral consumption. Mining bot scourging (Including ratting bots in drone regions) Revamping of Drone Loots to get refinables out Nerf to refining values of EVERYTHING. (As a bonus, destroys the whole "enough trit/pye for a SC in two JFs" thing) I'd be for refinables out, but still, any is good.
Starting cargo of ~6000 CPU/PG contrains specified in their subs EHP ^same - Hull/Armor HP should be pretty low, to dampen the DCs usefulness, since the ship is balanced on the assumption that lows are yield-buffers. Base Speed/Agility of a 25-50% buffed version of a Skiff.
Role Bonus: Mining lasers have been refocused, allowing their pulling strenght to destabilize a warp core. Mining lasers can be used on ships, hitting for minimal damage (iirc 100 dps/laser) and doing a -1 warp core strenght. Gas harvesters do a light webbing (20%), ice harvesters have a chance to jam (~1.5 strenght) and deep core miners do their damage reduced by 80%, but directly applied to the hull, bypassing armor and shield.
Now, for planning: Offensive subsystems: - Hyper-Focusing Beams - ~120% of a hulk's yield. - 3 highs, 3 turrets. Damage bonus of 50%. - Hauler Reconfiguration - Gains an Ore Bay of 200k m3. 6 highs, 0 turrets. - Covert Ops Reconfiguration: Extra highs for cloak, can use cov ops cloak, can jump on cov ops bridges. ~90% of a hulk's yield. - 5 highs, 3 turrets. - Drone Reconfiguration: Bandwidth upped from 50 to 125. Can field 5 additional mining drones. Mining drones mine 300% more. Drone damage up by 25%. 3 highs, 0 turrets. (That should make up 10 drones, base 600, up to 2400. Rigs may throw it off balance, though.
Defensive Subsystems: Supplemental Screening (+2m) Amplification Node. (+2m +1L) Reinforced Shield Emitter - Can use Stront to Reinforce shields for up to 5 minutes. Consumption balanced to about ~1mil a minute. Can't cancel until completed. Will not be able to move for 3min after the Reinforce finishes. Tactical Boosting Reconfiguration: +2 high, can fit boosting links. (+1m)
It's important to note that ONLY the amplification node subsystem should be able to tank triple-BS spawns with ease (Others should with deadspace fittings). EHP with no faction mods should be around 50k, 150k for supplemental screening, and proper loss for the -2 mids on the reinforced shields and -1 mid on Tactical Boosting, bringing total ehp down to something 30k and 40k. Starting cargo of ~6000 CPU/PG contrains specified in their subs EHP ^same - Hull/Armor HP should be pretty low, to dampen the DCs usefulness, since the ship is balanced on the assumption that lows are yield-buffers.
Electronic subsystems: CPU Efficiency Gate - Fatter CPU for active tanking. (+3 mids) Long-Range Reconfiguration: 100% bonus to targeting range, 300% bonus to mining laser range. (+2 mids) Emergent Locus Analyzer: 50% bonus to scan strenght, (+1 high +3 mids) Sub-Optimal Jamming Arrays: 50% bonus to jammer strenght & range. -50% to shield HP and boosting. (+4 mids)
Engineering Subsystems Power Core Multiplier - (+2 mid, +1 low) Allows enough grid to fit another LSE. Capacitor Regeneration Matrix (+2 mid, +1 low) Allows enough to fit and run a XL booster. Compactation Refocusing - Grid goes down to non-LSE allowing, unless using drone offensive sub. compact ore, about only what it mines itself. (+1 mid) Warp Core Power Relay - Max cap down by 20%. Warp strenght of +4. (+1 mid)
Compactation Refocusing and Warp Core Power Relays have a CPU loss over the other systems, about the need to run an additional MLU.
Propulsion Subsystems Cargo Bay Reconfiguration - +100% cargohold, Mass doubles, max speed -50%, can't fit AB/MWD. +1 low, +1 mid. Interdiction Nullifier - Immune to bubbles, +2 warp strenght, stacks with power relay. +1 low. Propulsion Side-Powering - Eliminates the capacitor need malus of a MWD, AB has +50% speed bonus. +1 low, +1 mid. Jump Drive - Ship gains a jump drive that can lock on normal cynos. +1 low, +1 mid.
All in all, a fleet of those WILL be able to put up a fight against a small gang, and a single one will be able to resist a short amount of time to wait on cavalry. For use in hisec, suicide ganking would be out of it's way, like it's out of it's way on tengus, though. Faction fit it and it'll blow up.
To rebalance the nerf of yield, Faction MLUs should pop up, and be quite expensive. Same applies to faction miners. T1 MLUs should be around ~3%, T2 ~5% and Faction ~7% - At the moment, using double MLU's is basically needed.
ORE LPs would become actually wanted, driving someone to that region of nullsec to do actual missioning. Surely won't hurt. Numbers _will_ need tweaking.
Mining should be able to pull in higher numbers with higher investment. And the ships should be able to defend themselves to a degree, like missioning ships can defend themselves, to a degree.
|
stoicfaux
240
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: So, going on the 5 possible subsystems, where is there any advantage to any of them for mining ? More CPU ? Covert Configuration ?
Some fuzzy ideas:
Offensive: * Increased laser mining amount * reduced strip miner cycle time * increased drone bay, drone damage bonus, and drone travel speed * Q-ship: moderate bonuses to guns/missiles * Increased life of T2 mining crystals, increased yield of crystals
Defensive: * Increased mineral specific cargo bay * Increased buffer tank + resists * Increased active boosting tank * Fleet boosters - mining links/boosters
Electronics: * Increased fitting- ex: CPU Efficiency Gate * Boost tractors, probes, and mining scanners * CovertOps cloak * Super boosted tractors with increase to number of targeted items, limited RR * Detects afk cloakers * Automatically dumps minerals to jet-can
Propulsion: * Increased Warp Strength plus agility * Increased Agility * Faster warp speed, reduced capacitor needed for warps. * MWD - used for Q-ship, to cloak+mwd
Engineering * increase life of T2 mining crystals? * increase general purpose cargo space by reducing "engine size": reduced agility, slower warp, lower top speed, reduced capacitor. Turns you into a space whale/mini-freighter so you can transport your rocks to a market hub.
Although TBH, I imagine miners would be happier with a T3 Secure, Fast Anchoring, Anchor Anywhere, Jet-Can.
|
Azaraius
Pawn Brokers
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 23:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Are you guys all forgetting CCP's idea to have Planatary ring mining? At one ofe the last Fan fests I believe I remember they were working on making it possible to give miners something new to do... Now on that note... maybe you need a t3 mining ship to stay in position with a moving ring. Maybe t3 mining ships would need thrusters on all sides and special tractor beams to pull in astroids from deep in the ring (maybe a ring would be too think to fly through). And arent these forums for CCP to read through for new ideas anyway, so who knows. |
GooieGoober
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 23:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
What about adding a module that allows for remote refining?
it would be soo cool to be able to mine the roids and refine on the spot...maybe at a minor loss...but you could haul away much more in the cargo bay.
I had often thought about a complete change in the mining operation....maybe instead of lasers/strips, you just collect the roids, break them up into smaller fragments, take those back to the starbase and then "prescreen" the usless material from them, then run them through the refinery. Prescreening would take time...unlike the instant refining.
I say pre-screening...because the mining laser seems to do this for you. There is no way a hulk is going to be able to haul in a few huge veld roids if that was just veldspar in them in any reasonable time.
Maybe add this feature to a T2 Orca/Roq? |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 03:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
For T3 what makes sense is a wormhole offering. so make it a 5 high slot with bonuses to gas harvesting.
And yes both the Mackiinaw and the Skiff out mine the hulk on special skills for ice and Mercoxit. I see no reason not to make a really good gas havest specialty ship. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Marl Xun
Xun Armaments Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 14:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Could T3 ships could also be used to combat bots?
[Ore Type] subprocessor - increases the yield of the listed ore type but dedicates the ship's hardware to that ore type. You cannot mine any other type of ore. This would, if nothing else, force macroers to return to base to refit from time to time
Microcompressor - compresses ore in the same way as a Rorqual (much lower efficiency however, 2:1, 3:1, etc). Does not require fuel or lock down the ship, but cannot mine ore while compressing. This will allow people who are not afk to mine-compress-mine while at a belt, increasing overall yeild while making things more difficult for macroers.
I'd like something to do with drones, but I'm not sure what at this point. |
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 15:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
I agree that there cannot be changes to yield and so on because of the ultimate effect that would have on the market, so instead of increasing yeidl and/or barge cargo capacity, give miners the opportunty to scan down grav sites or other mining opportunities with ores that are more rare, while in their hulks.
Given the current RL questions about dark matter and stuff, lets have dark matter (or antimatter - where does the AM in ammo come from I wonder) as a substance that has to be scanned down and harvested, then refined in the players PI set up, before it can go to market.
Maybe the result could be specialised fuel for supercaps (or something similar) so that there is a demand generated...how much would a supercap pilot be willing to pay to have fuel delivered to him...-ú-ú-ú-ú-ú!
H |
DrBmN
Axial tilt Blue Moon Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
a very interesting thought.
i would love to see t3 mining ships to happen.
let me add this, in every mining crystals description it say that the charge size is SMALL, wonder what upcoming ship will use a large one ;) |
|
Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 11:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
AureoLion wrote: Propulsion Subsystems Interdiction Nullifier - Immune to bubbles, +2 warp strenght, stacks with power relay. +1 low.
This is probably the most ******** thing you could ever do. Not only does it allow for safe 0.0 mining, even more so it makes botters completely uncatchable. Even without the nullification thingy, I would never give a default WCS to any ship but those who have them. The T2 haulers have 20 seconds align time, so it's fine, but I can already see players crying for mining ships with 30k m-¦ cargo bay, +2 warp stab, nullifier, covert cloak and 10 seconds align time.
T3 nullifiers were one of the worst things CCP has done recently. I don't really mind them on T3 cruisers, but on mining ships that is pure comedy. Maybe if in turn they took 30 seconds to align, but other than that, no.
And to clarify: I don't ever bubble camp, I use nullified T3s sometimes too, and yeah they're terribly broken. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 11:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
why do you need a new t3 ship?
just get ORE to release a new line of INDUSTRY subsystems for the current t3 ships |
ehon
Edani Innovations
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There can never be more yield than a Hulk. CCP won't accept that, as it would affect the markets.
every thing effects every thing thus one has to do things no matter what it does.... |
ehon
Edani Innovations
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
i don't see the t3 making the yields killer higher really. i was hoping for some other stuff like being able to fit a tank while having max mining speeds. cargo space could be nice. Plus null keeps complaining about their null sec not moving the resources it needs the t3 could be more of a battle ship size with a tank some hold and yield.
the biggest complaint i have had for this inferior barges has been the complete lack of tank ability. even focused on pure tank they could not surpass a basic crusier fit. |
Father Ted
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
I could see a T3 only ships miner module that compressed the ore. T2 miners (not strip miners) with compression unit in High Mid or Low. Limited by the subsystems and how many turrets they allow.
Same yield as any t2 miner, so less than Hulks. But he compression would make the smaller volume hold worth while for low and null sec mining. |
Vanessa Vansen
Ore Hogz Rolling Thunder.
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 06:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
There were several similar threads in the old forum e.g. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1568829
The following corresponds to post 14 of the thread mentioned above
Quote:The bonus of the industrial modules correspond now to the exhumer bonus, i.e. more yield instead of faster cycles.
1. Industrial ("offensive") subsystem the first three subsystems should lead to a similar yield than the corresponding exhumer but with faster cycles
a) ore prospector (resembles Hulk) 3 high slots Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 15% better yield for Strip Miner (covers Mining Barge Skill Bonus) 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level. (covers Exhumers Skill Bonus)
b) icebreaker (resembles Mackinaw) 2 high slots Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 100% bonus Ice Harvester yield but 25% penalty to ice harvester duration 5% reduction in Ice Harvester duration per level.
c) mercoxit prospector (resembles Skiff) 1 high slot Able to equip Strip Miner and Ice Harvester turrets. 15% better yield for Strip Miner (covers Mining Barge Skill Bonus) 60% bonus to Mercoxit Mining Crystal yield multiplier per level
d) gas harvester 5 high slots 100% bonus Gas Cloud Harvester yield but 25% penalty to Gas Cloud Harvester duration 5% reduction in Gas Cloud Harvester duration per level.
2. "Electronics" subsystem
a) Harvester/Miner Range 5% bonus to range of strip miners/ice harvester/gas cloud harvester per level. (max. targeting range should be able to cover that with maximum skills)
b) Survey Range 50% bonus to range of survey scanner per level
c) Emergent Locus Analyzer see corresponding T3 cruiser sub system
d) Improved Mercoxit Mining 20% reduced chance of Mercoxit gas cloud forming per level
3. "Engineering" subsystem 4500m3 Cargo hold (that should do), 25m3 drone bay, 25 Mbit/sec drone bay, 2 low slots, 4 medium slots
a) Covert Reconfiguration Can fit covert ops cloaks. -96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level.
b) Ore Packing 4000m3 Ore Hold per level.
c) Warp Stabilizing +0.4 warp strength per level.
d) Drone Upgrade 5m3 drone bay per level. 5 Mbit/sec bandwidth per level.
Defensive and Propulsion similar to corresponding Tengu subsystems, warfare processor -> foreman processor with bonus on Mining Foreman Links.
Please notice that it is not possible to have all three sub-systems (covert reconfiguration, warp stabilizing and interdiction nullifier) at once, but two off them. |
Hebrang
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 10:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
How about they just fix harvester implants and turn them into what we want .... and have money to pay.... +5s with bonus to striper range.... cause +3 no thank you thats for pvp |
AureoLion
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:AureoLion wrote: Propulsion Subsystems Interdiction Nullifier - Immune to bubbles, +2 warp strenght, stacks with power relay. +1 low.
This is probably the most ******** thing you could ever do. Not only does it allow for safe 0.0 mining, even more so it makes botters completely uncatchable. Even without the nullification thingy, I would never give a default WCS to any ship but those who have them. The T2 haulers have 20 seconds align time, so it's fine, but I can already see players crying for mining ships with 30k m-¦ cargo bay, +2 warp stab, nullifier, covert cloak and 10 seconds align time. T3 nullifiers were one of the worst things CCP has done recently. I don't really mind them on T3 cruisers, but on mining ships that is pure comedy. Maybe if in turn they took 30 seconds to align, but other than that, no. And to clarify: I don't ever bubble camp, I use nullified T3s sometimes too, and yeah they're terribly broken. Apart that tacklers for gangs with multiple points are quite common, yes, that subsystem (AND the other +warp ones) are meant to increase inertia substantially, since the inertia is derived from the warp core in this universe. Forgot to mention that, i seem to take fluff as gameplay value. with both stabilizing subs and no nano's, it should align in 40s or so. That ship tanks quite a bit, and it's not meant to be shotted by a scout, anyway. We can't motivate ship balancing on bots, though. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
there's never going to be any more t3 ships, all the people involved are now making pretty dresses for your dollies |
Sobkilla
Sob Industries League of Hephaestus
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 20:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
id have to say the best t3 miner would be to take a hulk give it a lil more ehp/tank and 1 extra high slot for a covert ops cloak all that is needed null / low sec mining would become alot more popular then it is now. which would not hurt the market values of ore as there would still be plenty of them getting caught uncloaked and destroyed. |
|
Fiedems
Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.01 05:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
I like a lot of the ideas here, really like the idea of my hulk being able to survive a bit longer. However, I kinda wish they would just fix the hang ups on asteroids.
I'm so tired of not being able to warp because I'm stuck on a piece of space dust. Recruiter for CIRAD http://cirad.f-con.us/ We are always looking for good pilots, join CIRAD PUBLIC to chat. |
Doracos
Teylas Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.01 12:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
t3 could bring one important thing.... MORE HP - make the more difficult to gang in hi sec. |
Igniskhin
Veyr The Veyr Collective
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 01:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Although a T3 industrial ship would awesome (cov-ops, nullifier, better align times, etc etc.) am i the only one who would be happy if they tripled the Hulk's power grid allowing for a cruiser size tank? |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 09:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
the only thing needed for miners would be a bigger tank and more storage. higher speed, allign and manouverability would be a nice kandy. but they shouldnt have more mining yield then a hulk with max skills
simply said WE NEED A HULK WITH MORE EHP :D ^^ |
WHDolphin
W.H. Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 09:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
as both a group and solo miner in Eve starting back in 07, I can say the yeld of a hulk is a great yeld. and I would say the people in this form saying the miners dont need a T3 ship probly belong to the people that like to gank us at the belts. We Miners Need A Tank Mining Ship. And That Type of ship would bring more miners into Low Sec if not into the 0.0 |
tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 13:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:why do you need a new t3 ship?
just get ORE to release a new line of INDUSTRY subsystems for the current t3 ships
this one |
Battle On
Jitex Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 15:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
i would like to see the T3 mining ship as following:
just like a T3 Cruiser, you can modify it however you like.
if you wanna mine ice, you can fit it with 3 icemining lasers and some modules to boost cycletime/range if you wanna mine regular ore, you can fit 3 regular stripminers and some subsystems to boost your cycletime/range if you wanna mine morphite, you can fit it with 2 deepcore stripminers ans some subsystems to boost your cycletime/range/chance on explosion decrease if you wanna harvest gas, you can fit it with 6 gasharvesters and some special subsystems for more yield (a rokh can fit 8 harvesters so it woul be a shame is a BS would beat a T3 miner). if you wanna do this all, you can choice a combined one with with 4 slots (3 for turrets and 1 for something else like a cloak) and subsystems for the thing you are doing.
also there should be subsystems for faster ability, so that it will be faster then the exhumers and mining barges. the cargo will be depending on which subsystem you use. instead of an "cargo hold" you will have a "ore hold" (like an orca), "ice hold" or "gas hold" + a cargohold of 1,000 m3 for the crystals. the amount of cargo these will have, will be the job of CCP. if you ask me i would say give the ore on 10,000m3, the ice one 15,000m3 and the gas one 5,000m3.
midslots will be depending on which subsystem you use for that. you can choice for boosting stuff or for tanky stuff. same goes for lowslots.
this all wouldnt effect the market too much and will give more satisfaction to the player for the more profit he makes. |
Vanilla Twilight
Your Slit is Mine Federation
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 17:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
T3 miner should have a better tank to be against suicide ganks. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 18:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
we'd still suicide them
all miners will hang |
grumpyguts1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 18:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:we'd still suicide them
all miners will hang
You really are short sighted, no miners, less minerals(can get some from mission salvage).. no shiny ships to gank or gank in DOH!!!!
|
|
Battle On
Jitex Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.02 19:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:we'd still suicide them
all miners will hang
killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec, so killing them would result in skyrocket prices of regular minerals, which will include all ships made out of it. you really wanna pay 100mill for a frigate? xD |
James Biggles
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 16:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
instead of going T3 mining ships a complete rewamp of the construction of capitalships and supers could be a way to go, change what goes into a capital ship so that you can only farm the resources needed to build them in 0.0
Then add ships that are big nice and tasty to shoot up that can mine this mythical stuff that goes into your caps. Say a carriersize miningbarge that can fit some sort of supermining laser that while it can mine regular stuff i isn't profitable because it has to siege or because it consumes fuel when it turns this supermining laser on, so it is only usefull to people that want to build a supercap.
So that you can build subcaps out of the stuff in highsec, in low sec you can mine the stuff you need to build subcaps and regular capitals, and in 0.0 you can mine all of the above, however you can only mine the magical dreamstuff that titans and motherships are made of from upgraded industrial systems, say a limited magical dreamstuff from small and a little more out of mediums, large is 50% and x-large and giant is mostly magical dreamstuff.
This would add a new angle to sov warfare, you would have to protect your mining op, and lets face it if i dangled 5 sieged carrier size targets in front of Legionxdeath, goons, white noice or whatnot with the promise of say a billion isk KM and a slowing of your opponents supercap building schemes, there would be tears somewhere, if not the miners then the people trying to stop them mining.
In my oppinion the way it is currently going where the big alliances buy their capitals from people in lowsec and just freighter in the bulk of the lowend minerals from highsec, isn't how it should be.... however that is my oppinion i am sure someone in 1 or 2 posts will have something completely diffrent to say about the matter. |
Serial Chi
DeathStar Systems
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 19:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
looking at the new dev blogs.... looks like this will just be a dream. |
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 22:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There can never be more yield than a Hulk. CCP won't accept that, as it would affect the markets.
If you put a kink in the mineral supply from drone regions (by getting rid of Plush Compunds) and looting (getting rid of all M0 drops and making M1-4 refine more worthless) you can balance it with higher miner yeild. After all 'everything you fly comes from the miner', or is supposed to.
How about a T3 strip miner rather than a T3 barge? Just make sure its not another POS-owner only system though, POS-owners already get far too much of the game to themselves. 99.5% of the playerbase never get the roles needed to run POSses, and of the 0.5% that do, around 95% of them are in 1-man or alt corps. POS-owners already get far too much of the game (and the isk income) exclusive to themselves. A player starting up today has more chance of eventually flying a supercap than getting pos rights. |
Marcus Caspius
Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 15:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
My 2 cents - a Crystal Bay that offers bonus to the storage of Mining Crystals. Its a right ROYAL pain in the @R5E to haul Crystals to and from a belt... |
Winlet Dorn
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 16:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
In reading what CCP has put out there, I don't think we'll ever get a better mining ship than the Hulk.
However, i''ve actually been thinking of this for a while, and there is a way to produce a T3 mining ship, but keep the actual yield per ship the same. I had a whole backstory worked up on it and everything (but lost the stats I worked up). |
Abadayos
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 12:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
I have an idea that would possibly make a T3 'miner' ship both required and viable.
Star mining. Yep you heard it right. There is 1 in every system and what do we do with them? Use them for free lighting on our ship hulls and that's about it.
Now here is a VERY vague idea I had running through my head whilst reading this thread:
Each star has a different class and luminosity that dictates it's color, most of us know and understand that and how stars work. Now we all know how much power they generate and all the fun stuff that happens with sun spots and stuff like that (for those that don't, here is a wikilink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunspot ).
Now my idea is mining the sun for antimatter isotopes from sun spots and solar flares. I have no idea if it's possible in physics but hey, we shoot things with lasers and pew pew in space ships so we are all open minded enough to ignore that part.
Now the use of the T3 mine would be to be able to survive close enough to the sun to harvest these anti-matter isotopes and contain them safely. The ships would be modular like the current cruisers with a relatively low cargo space (most of it would be taken up with shielding and containment systems for the anti-matter. There could be sub systems that grant bigger cargo spaces but remove the ability to hold anti-matter and another to possibly boost mining yield to be about 70-80% of a Hulks yield, but NOT more. Being so close tot he sun would permit a stronger shield tank, but it in a skill based 5% mod/lvl or just more slots for a better tank. Also being able to have 2 hi's for the steller miners (sorry, not got a better name for them...it's a fresh idea).
Also unrefined anti-matter could only be transported by the T3 miner to the refining location. Once the anti-matter is refined it's easier to transport and thus not needing a specialised cargo hold (think that ship with a general cargo hold, Command Center cargo hold and PI crap cargo hold. Having a General cargo hold, very small, and an antimatter hold which is larger)
Now...what the hell would Anti-Matter be used in? Well could be refined and combined either at a PoS or using PI to make tech 3 ordinance and newer propulsion sub systems and engineering sub systems. After all they have to be powered somehow...why not throw a chunk of refined and augmented antimatter for all your new power needs?
The advantage is it doesn't touch the current mineral market due to being worse than a Hulk at mining and making something different to 'mine'. Idea needs fleshing out but if it's any good it would no doubt get some attention. |
XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 17:18:00 -
[68] - Quote
James Biggles wrote:instead of going T3 mining ships a complete rewamp of the construction of capitalships and supers could be a way to go, change what goes into a capital ship so that you can only farm the resources needed to build them in 0.0
Then add ships that are big nice and tasty to shoot up that can mine this mythical stuff that goes into your caps. Say a carriersize miningbarge that can fit some sort of supermining laser that while it can mine regular stuff i isn't profitable because it has to siege or because it consumes fuel when it turns this supermining laser on, so it is only usefull to people that want to build a supercap.
So that you can build subcaps out of the stuff in highsec, in low sec you can mine the stuff you need to build subcaps and regular capitals, and in 0.0 you can mine all of the above, however you can only mine the magical dreamstuff that titans and motherships are made of from upgraded industrial systems, say a limited magical dreamstuff from small and a little more out of mediums, large is 50% and x-large and giant is mostly magical dreamstuff.
This would add a new angle to sov warfare, you would have to protect your mining op, and lets face it if i dangled 5 sieged carrier size targets in front of Legionxdeath, goons, white noice or whatnot with the promise of say a billion isk KM and a slowing of your opponents supercap building schemes, there would be tears somewhere, if not the miners then the people trying to stop them mining.
In my oppinion the way it is currently going where the big alliances buy their capitals from people in lowsec and just freighter in the bulk of the lowend minerals from highsec, isn't how it should be.... however that is my oppinion i am sure someone in 1 or 2 posts will have something completely diffrent to say about the matter.
How does one fit so many misconceptions in a single post?
You don't have any idea how current supercap industry works do you? |
Jin Jurayle
NOMAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship? |
XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jin Jurayle wrote:Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship?
No. |
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Anachronic
Abacus Industries Group Knights Of Freedoms
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
XXSketchxx wrote:Jin Jurayle wrote:Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship? No.
+1...no reason for a refining ship...it would make POS refining more obselete than it already is...also...no |
Velicitia
Open Designs
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 19:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Anachronic wrote:XXSketchxx wrote:Jin Jurayle wrote:Just throwin the idea out there. How about as a T3 ship .... a mining & refining ship? No. +1...no reason for a refining ship...it would make POS refining more obselete than it already is...also...no
+1 for better POS refineries!
also, no to the refining ship. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
506
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 19:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Battle On wrote:killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec No they aren't.
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Anachronic
Abacus Industries Group Knights Of Freedoms
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 20:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Battle On wrote:killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec No they aren't.
this...have you seen the amount of minerals that come out of mission loot and drone poo? |
caliis
Sphere Industries V0RTEX.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 20:32:00 -
[75] - Quote
the main thing miners need are stronger tank not more yield. one of the reasons mining in low and null sec is not tried is it isn't worth the money. you make more fitting a combat ship and ratting then you do mining in null sec. but ratting in low sec is risking PVP from other ships. so simply put a t3 miner should be based on skills and in relation should AT BEST mine like a hulk tank like a ratter, and be able to kill rats.
evidence of this is hulks in .5 . rats dont kill a correctly trained miner, also a well trained miner can kill rats in .5. these 2 things should translate to T3 mining ship in 0.0. pvp is a different story but does translate to hulks get ganked in high sec, theyll get ganked in low sec just wont be easy as f1,f2,f3
p.s. i know hulks can tank and kill rats in 0.0 with the right build. I'm talking better then now. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 20:54:00 -
[76] - Quote
In addition to this, the sources of minerals need to be looked into. As a miner, someone needs a REALLY GOOD incentive to risk a 200m ISK ship in lowsec. Right now, those incentives aren't really there since lowsec ore isn't exactly "better" than what you can get in hisec. Sure the yields are better -- but the value of what you're getting isn't necessarily high enough to warrant lowsec mining.
Make lowsec have a place as a GOOD source of minerals... and then the miners will head over that way... |
Anachronic
Abacus Industries Group Knights Of Freedoms
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 21:20:00 -
[77] - Quote
caliis wrote:p.s. i know hulks can tank and kill rats in 0.0 with the right build. I'm talking better then now.
So let me get this straight...you want a hulk to be able to do something it is already able to do sufficiently...better. In your other thread you more or less said you want a T3 mining ship to be able to rat while it mines. This isn't going to happen. The hulk is just fine where it is being able to tank and just defend itself enough as well as pull in ludicrous amounts of ore. We don't need a permatanking mining ship that can hold off a 0.0 rat wave on it's own. |
Page Starcaster
Society of lost Souls
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
T3 mining ship should have less yield than a hulk with a better tank and a small jumpdrive (like the ones black ops use).
Even just have a T3 battleship subsystem that adds mining bonus to the ship. As it is the Rokh can out mine a retriever, only a covetor or hulk out mine it. The T3 battleship with mining subsystem could have a yield slightly better than the covetor but not as good as the hulk. Add the value of a T3 tank and a possibly a small jump drive and solo mining in low and null might be feasible. The cost of a T3 battleship should be in the 3-4 bil isk range(since a T3 cruiser if I recall corectly is currently 1-2 bil isk with a full set of subsystems) keeping it as an elite ship not all miners would use.
Any ships with an increase in yield will only drop the mineral prices even more. |
caliis
Sphere Industries V0RTEX.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 02:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
Anachronic wrote:
So let me get this straight...you want a hulk to be able to do something it is already able to do sufficiently...better. .
"yep" same as combat pilots do. since more combat in a new ships seems to be the norm why not have it so better hulks mine the same but fight better?
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 03:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
stratigic miner... better tank, gas harvesting bonuses, 5 high slots to fit five gas harvesters (or six highs if you think a cloak and 5 are necessary), no strip miner mountability, largish cargo... fair sized drone bay.
Hulks are fine as the top miner.. but they need a bit of love to get what I suggest should be higher EHP for a hulk, [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
|
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
103
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 15:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Battle On wrote:Weaselior wrote:we'd still suicide them
all miners will hang killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec, so killing them would result in skyrocket prices of regular minerals, which will include all ships made out of it. you really wanna pay 100mill for a frigate? xD what, you can't afford that? |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 15:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
My idea from ages ago was a T2 mining frigate (T2 Navitas etc):
GÇó Much improved resists - ability to tank low sec/null sec rats for a duration maybe GÇó Can fit specific more efficient gas/ice/mineral harvesters or mining lasers GÇó "Towable" trailer storage silos for cargo capacity that attach and detatch from the ship
The idea is to facilitate:
GÇó More 'ninja' mining GÇó Making low and null sec easier (less risky) to mine in small groups compared to using barges GÇó More cat and mouse chasing of miners with the trailers making a good 'prize' target. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 16:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
Brock Nelson wrote:Supporters of T3 Mining Ship has failed to realize that at first, it will bring better yield and therefore better profit but it won't take long for the price of minerals to drop like a rock when more player switch to T3 Barge and increase supply of mineral.
Prices will drop before the ships even hit singularity. Look at how much PI fuel has gone up since the customs office dev blog.
Get this through your head people: BETTER MINING SHIPS ARE BAD FOR THE PROFESSION |
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 04:29:00 -
[84] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Brock Nelson wrote:Supporters of T3 Mining Ship has failed to realize that at first, it will bring better yield and therefore better profit but it won't take long for the price of minerals to drop like a rock when more player switch to T3 Barge and increase supply of mineral. Prices will drop before the ships even hit singularity. Look at how much PI fuel has gone up since the customs office dev blog. Get this through your head people: BETTER MINING SHIPS ARE BAD FOR THE PROFESSION
So what? We're forever stuck with a Hulk?
Nice and fair.
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 12:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hulk is a DAMN good mining ship. The trouble is that as miners, there is competition between other miners ... and the damn bots.
Kill the bots, fix the profession. Simple, huh? |
Luxi Daphiti
Biotech Transtellar INC
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 13:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
Most of us seem to agree that increased yield is bad, which makes sense.
But I was thinking, what about maybe adding a turret hard point? Shooting those rats myself would be so much easier then using drones - and I can't see it increasing yield that much (Not like I warp out when under attack, the Hulk makes a good tank) but it would be useful. And also perhaps discourage pirates a little more.
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 14:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
1 or more turret slots would be nice. However, I think you would need to break them in such a way as to not allow the fitting of miner turrets (e.g. "due to the highly specialised nature of Mining Barges and Exhumers for strip mining, Outer Ring Excavations chose to not include the routines necessary to control the smaller mining turrets") |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 14:27:00 -
[88] - Quote
beor oranes wrote:What would a T3 mining ship offer to a miner?
A better yield? More cargo capacity?
Until a function for a T3 miner is found there is no need for one. If you increase the yield then it wont actually improve mining or make miners any more isk because it would be the standard for anyone mining.
Now a subsystem for T3 cruisers (and any new T3 ships) which gives bonuses to Gas Harvesting or a bonus to obtaining any new feature (like comets) would be pretty good.
I would settle with a cov-op T-3 Miner :) |
Domonix Deuce
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 16:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tenchi Sal wrote:T3 mining ships can work on the same principles that T3 cruisers work on: Specialization.
You've already listed 2 possible ones. More yield. Not just more yield in general but more into specific ores. If you are in High Sec, you can 2-3 times the yield just on veld or omber. Switch out sub systems if you are hunting for a different specific ore.
Maybe this could help with the null sec mining problem and make the low end ores there spawn with huge quantities and needing a T3 mining barge with a huge yield to make those low end ores actually worth bothering with.
Cargo hold optimization is another option I'm sure all miners would love it. would help increase the isk/hr with less traveling to/from.
Just like T3 cruisers can ignore bubbles maybe theres a subsystem that lets you get away from warp scramblers in low sec so more miners would move into these systems. Obviously this wouldn't work on the ships specifically designed to lock you down. Maybe the time it takes someone to lock on to you so is greatly increased so you can get away.
With T3 cruisers came W-space to make them. The new T3 battleships/frigates can be made in another fashion that involves needing a T3 mining vessel to get the minerals to manufacture them. Something dynamic and not static so it takes human interaction and is not so easily botted.
Id kinda like to see a miner with bigger cargo or better an ore hold + cargo and bonus to scanning, ideally covert reconfiguration could even work for low sec miners |
INFANITI
Center Of Free Engineers
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 22:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
You know i would love to see CCP do something about the Asteroid Belts systems, If they going to make new T3 mining ships whats about the asteroid ! ( It 's time for a change )
And are there no planatery asteroid belts? |
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DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 07:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
Luxi Daphiti wrote:Most of us seem to agree that increased yield is bad, which makes sense.
But I was thinking, what about maybe adding a turret hard point? Shooting those rats myself would be so much easier then using drones - and I can't see it increasing yield that much (Not like I warp out when under attack, the Hulk makes a good tank) but it would be useful. And also perhaps discourage pirates a little more.
Actually, I disagree. Training extensive mining skills (esp. exhumers 5) means mining amount is near maximum possible for the tech 2 mining exhumers. Increased yield as a player rewards me for my effort. Increased yield as a bot / macro means those people have "FREE" income. I want my mining time to be worth something. Also, CCP needs to figure out a mining tax so corporations seek out miners as much as they seek out pve and pvp pilots.
CCP MUST actually do something about bot/macro players. How long will a bot/macro last in low/nul sec? Since CCP refuses to permanently ban any account using bot/macro programs, I say eliminate high-sec ore spawns, thus removing their income. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 13:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
Anachronic wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Battle On wrote:killing miners is just a loss for nullsec, 90%+ of all the minerals are mined by miners in highsec No they aren't. this...have you seen the amount of minerals that come out of mission loot and drone poo?
And you know how many goodies/ships come from high sec to null sec produced by alt corps of all major alliances?
Or do you think their null sec empty belts of miners just deplete them selves and magically pop in their hangars?
Null sec are good at giving lessons to high sec, but never to do stuff in their own homelands other than scam themselves with neutral alts and pew pew.
Awesome people.
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Kriegman
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.30 21:39:00 -
[93] - Quote
I want new shiny mining ships to blow up and salvage. Hopefully they drop expensive modules to make ganking more profitable. |
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