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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
The Snowman
Aliastra Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
hmm, by the sounds of it, its an obvious and very long awaited fix.
Was there any gory technical details that was preventing this fix sooner? |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.
I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.
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Johan March
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
I support this change. |
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
96
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.
You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether. |
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
103
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
What is the point of self destruct anymore.
Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.
I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely? |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
86
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vaari wrote:What is the point of self destruct anymore.
Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.
I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely? Because f*** you, thats why. On a serious note, I do agree that a self destructed ship should not drop modules. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
jonnykefka wrote:Myz Toyou wrote:Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live. You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether.
I-¦m being conservative cos we saw less SDs from 6 month back till today but maybe we were just lucky running into less tards lately.
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Aareya
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
7
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2077
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Yanaoo
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
5
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:07:00 -
[70] - Quote
Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time. |
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G0hme
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
14
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
<3 CCP Masterplan! Poke me at FF2013 for a Guinness and an Oban!
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
Well its still chance based, which would be equal to the level of incompetance of the person setting up in the charges inside your ship. Put them up right, no salvaged loot, miss a spot - loot drops! Makes perfect sense. Am I the only one thinking: "Mini-Game" when you initiate SD? Would love to be able to run around my ship placing charges and then run back to the escape pod just in time for the explosion not to kill my clone!
SD Timers:
Frigates: 30sec Cruisers: 1sec Battleships: 2min Capitals: 5mins Supers: 10mins (You would need alot of time to set up all those charges) Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
360
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
What about players that set the self destruct and then eject. What happens and what does the kill report look like?
This still does not solve the SD at a pos thing.
Maybe every kill in WH space creates a kill report? |
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
104
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Aareya wrote:I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct.
No one asked your opinion, wench. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
818
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
not sure about that. The killreport for not killing a ship might make many killboard power user happy. But the cargo drop change somehow removes a fun game mechanic.
also a question:
what happens if you self destruct in a T3? Wiki states no skills get lost, TQ behavior has always been a bit random. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8784
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself. I like this idea.
Making SDs like any other kill rather removes their purpose except as a way of not triggering your clone jump timer.
If they were used as a GÇ£last spiteGÇ¥ effort GÇö yielding no intel and no loot GÇö then that purpose would remain (of course GÇ£no intelGÇ¥ would only mean that the KM showed an empty ship, not that one wasn't posted), but that last middle finger should indeed come at a cost.
GǪoh, and yes, when you're brave enough to do it devs, the timers really could use a once-over to make them scale with the general durability of the ship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Minmatar Citizen 76959458587
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Yanaoo wrote:Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time.
+GêP |
Scrym
Un-Lucky Confederation of the 45
0
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dovinian wrote:Excellent change! Thanks for pushing this through.
No, no. Thank YOU |
Candente
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
24
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo. |
G0hme
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
15
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Candente wrote:About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo.
Thats a load of bull, nobody want the mods of your T2 fit Carrier anyway. Assuming that people SD to keep a few modules from falling into the enemies hands is why they do it is ridiculos and naive. Its to not have it show up and the killboard and nothing else! You can't vapourize a ship. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
23
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Candente wrote:About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo. Agree with the above.
Generating a kill report is fine, dropping loot isn't imo. Scuttling your ship has to serve some function beyond "I'm stuck in WH space", otherwise you might as well remove the timer completely. |
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Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
51
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
So after this change an SD will
- Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point? |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
1
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Valeo Galaem wrote:So after this change an SD will - Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point?
Saves ammo and time. |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
29
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Very very happy with this change. |
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
Finally. No more taking the coward's way out. |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma
50
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
I don't like this change, self district was excellent way of griefing people that are abut to kill you, flipping them of as saying, GÇ£Hahahaha ...you shell have no loot, no kill mail and no Lieutenant Yar!" It is far more tears inducing then any spam in local or even actually killing their ship. Just look at all those people crying in this tread about long lost killmails! What else in eve could make one player cause more frustration then then blue balling opponent at climax of victory in such beautifully destructive fashion?
In fact IGÇÖd like to propose change that would enhance this experience, in addition to denying loot and killreport when player self destructs all people that attacked him should have this video run in their EVE client screen:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo[/url]
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Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
125
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
Valeo Galaem wrote:So after this change an SD will - Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point?
Self Destruct is a function that allows you to get back to your clone station with a penalty of a ship / pod loss. Reason why you need it is if you are stuck, either by your own mistake (in w-space system) or through actions of others (fight occurred away from a gate or wormhole) and you are bubbled and scrammed. Basically SD is there to prevent time greifing from others, without SD they can try to "ransom" you and waste hours of your time. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
860
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
Looks like a good, popular change.
Now how about ejecting when hull is below 20% remaining, and having the ship instantly explode due to loss of a pilot with the mechanic skill? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
187
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 22:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Id rather this apply only to capitals. There has been more than one time where I have been tackled by something I could tank permanently + a falcon (or falcons), and ended up self destructing.
Edit: Basically, there are actual uses for self destruct, mostly denying loot and km to people whose idea of pvp is an assault frigate and multiple recons. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
386
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Posted - 2012.07.27 23:02:00 -
[89] - Quote
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
I agree, self destruct should void the insurance Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
721
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Posted - 2012.07.27 23:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yet another half-arsed change. Who the hell considered it's a good ideat to entirely remove an established game feature on mere excuses of a) ships having WAY TOO MUCH EHP and b) ease of creating ONE-SIDED fights
How about you adressing these ISSUES instead of their minor consequences
What's the point in having SD now
Recently you just killed off an entire world of active shield tanking by introducing a single OP module which everyone and their dog is using now or gonna use soon, now this. Why remove game features or replace them with half-baked solutions It it really that hard to come with proper solutions, which will not negate one each other, but complement instead
Upond SDing:
- killmail is generated - no loot drops - no intel on ship setup is provided - no insurance is payed out
solves all the problems 14 |
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