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Macs Mayhem
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Posted - 2010.09.04 16:17:00 -
[1]
We really need a vast number more solar systems to support growing more player communities.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.09.04 17:56:00 -
[2]
there is soooooooooo much empty space even in highsec, more so in lowsec and 0.0. we dont need more. we just need people to spread out.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.09.04 18:38:00 -
[3]
darius mclever, go take sov in those 10 jumps between 2 power blocks that fight each other. Let us know how it goes.
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Morcam
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Posted - 2010.09.04 19:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Morcam on 04/09/2010 19:08:50
Originally by: Sig Sour darius mclever, go take sov in those 10 jumps between 2 power blocks that fight each other. Let us know how it goes.
This. And most of that empty space is empty because it's horrible space that the big alliances don't want. That doesn't mean they won't **** you if you try to take it.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.09.04 19:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sig Sour darius mclever, go take sov in those 10 jumps between 2 power blocks that fight each other. Let us know how it goes.
and you really think that problem would go away with adding more normal 0.0 space? see what happened when they added drone regions ... the same power blocks grabbed it.
wormhole space is kinda safe from that problem, because logistics is a problem there.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.04 19:37:00 -
[6]
Adding systems will only result in power-blocs becoming even more bloated.
What needs to be done is for CCP to introduce mechanics that penalise overextended entities. Having 200+ capitals is currently all you really need to hold onto huge tracts of land (oversimplification), with only a fraction of the actual systems ever seeing anything other than passer-throughs. Move away from the automatic win that the blob/capital-blob currently represents and population WILL increase.
Low-sec needs its own rules. Pirate focused dumbed down sovereignty system with benefits large enough that low-sec corps and alliances will wage war to control systems/constellations. It always makes me sad to think of just how bad low-sec is, it is extreme risk for no additional benefit .. the only thing "better" compared to 0.0 is the absence of bubbles so clones live longer
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Rhadia
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Posted - 2010.09.04 23:12:00 -
[7]
I wish they'd make it so we can scan down/utilize Dead Space pockets. It's the most sensible solution for providing havens for small groups and pirates to dig in.
Adding more space that is just as easily accessible as the rest of it is not a solution. Using the space we have and providing secluded hard to reach areas (Same logic as wormholes being havens for smaller player entities) is a far better choice.
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Jaggati Khan
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Posted - 2010.09.05 00:35:00 -
[8]
darius is just a troll right? i dont think ive actually be positive about anything anyone posts in here, much less give a reasonable argument??
anyways, i support this :)
currently there is a fair amount of un claimed space in null sec (mainly drone regions which most combat pvp/pve pilots wont touch cus of bounties) as for the rest it is pretty much taken - there are systems in delve and branch too but you gotta go via IT or nc to get there and you certainly would find it hard to keep, there are many reasons for this for example entry points (gates)? not enough of them into null either imo and so makes it easier to camp (yeh you have wh's but mass issues) also local chat allows unimaginable intel that stops people dead in their tracks (how many people would rush out if a small fleet of viators were making their way through your space?)
also the fact that you cant really hunt for bounties in high sec means a lot of players are out in null/low simply to sate their lust for pew pew...
im not entirely sure how many systems there are in eve but as this is a galaxy then theres no reason why it shouldnt have more systems - well except server requirements?
how about some sort of new regions/constellations that can only be found via wh's? local chat could be the same as wh space but the systems would operate in the same way as normal systems with belts/rats etc - though as these would in effect be 'lost' colonies they would presumibly have no bounties - maybe the 'regional' size systems would have a little empire in there (incl their own high sec but without concord) plus stations and rat bounties?
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Jaggati Khan
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Posted - 2010.09.05 00:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rhadia I wish they'd make it so we can scan down/utilize Dead Space pockets. It's the most sensible solution for providing havens for small groups and pirates to dig in.
thats an interesting idea, maybe you could create a specific 'pirate' corp (im thinking to utalsie some sort of skill tree) to actually be able to use or create your own deadspce pirate areas? no pos's, limited/different defenses but an ability to build maybe some sort of gate (like a jb but would be limited in ship jumps by mass jump size and total mass accepted like wh's but add a timer)??
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.09.05 00:49:00 -
[10]
Without revising sovereignty mechanics or creating space that doesn't face the same issues of 00 adding to 00 is a waste, it would just get added to the folds of fat of existing powerblocks. I think empire is large enough, not to say that they couldn't grow but there are plenty of systems and people generally benefit from being in empire clustered together, only out in 00, or WH/lowsec could would people benefit somewhat depending on play style from being further apart more sparsely situated.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.05 01:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jaggati Khan
Originally by: Rhadia I wish they'd make it so we can scan down/utilize Dead Space pockets. It's the most sensible solution for providing havens for small groups and pirates to dig in.
thats an interesting idea, maybe you could create a specific 'pirate' corp (im thinking to utalsie some sort of skill tree) to actually be able to use or create your own deadspce pirate areas? no pos's, limited/different defenses but an ability to build maybe some sort of gate (like a jb but would be limited in ship jumps by mass jump size and total mass accepted like wh's but add a timer)??
Dead Space Proposal - Battle Dust Proposal |
Morcam
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Posted - 2010.09.05 15:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: darius mclever see what happened when they added drone regions ... the same power blocks grabbed it.
What? No, they didn't. But I'd honestly say the problem with the current 0.0 is that it's just not accessible enough. Holding down an entire region, NPC or sov, pretty much consists of plopping down bubbles at a few key gates, putting a few people on them, and taking a nap. Single players looking for money don't stand a chance, and smaller groups usually get eliminated in station games. Decent fleets could hold some NPC 0.0, but without cap pilots there's not a way to take and hold any sov.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:12:00 -
[13]
why do you think that more additional space would not get grabbed by one of those "big blocks", which leads to the situation we have already. Even if it would not, another big alliance would form and keep the space. Its the nature of people masses they group together for achieving big goals as keeping space, which is valuable as the 0.0 space.
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Morcam
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Robert Caldera why do you think that more additional space would not get grabbed by one of those "big blocks", which leads to the situation we have already. Even if it would not, another big alliance would form and keep the space. Its the nature of people masses they group together for achieving big goals as keeping space, which is valuable as the 0.0 space.
Four coalitions is still better than three, in the end.
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ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.05 18:44:00 -
[15]
More Nullsec Less Highsec
You can go through hundreds of systems in Highsec with like 2 hulks in them, cut them out and replace with null. Server load is not impacted, and we get more nullsec. Yes you'd crowd more people into smaller highsecs but that's why you don't go crazy on it and leave a few of the non-congested highsecs to be filled out by the influx of people from other sparesely utilized highs
Anything to clear people out of HS is a good measure
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.09.05 19:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ImmaSplodeYou More Nullsec Less Highsec
You can go through hundreds of systems in Highsec with like 2 hulks in them, cut them out and replace with null. Server load is not impacted, and we get more nullsec. Yes you'd crowd more people into smaller highsecs but that's why you don't go crazy on it and leave a few of the non-congested highsecs to be filled out by the influx of people from other sparesely utilized highs
Anything to clear people out of HS is a good measure
How does making the empty space alliances grab bigger help the game, while shrinking highsec?
If you don't do something about stupid alliance 'land grabs', changing how it works so they aren't so easily able to 'control' swaths of space there is no point in making it bigger.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Hofbrau Dunkel
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Posted - 2010.09.05 22:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Adding systems will only result in power-blocs becoming even more bloated.
What needs to be done is for CCP to introduce mechanics that penalise overextended entities. Having 200+ capitals is currently all you really need to hold onto huge tracts of land (oversimplification), with only a fraction of the actual systems ever seeing anything other than passer-throughs. Move away from the automatic win that the blob/capital-blob currently represents and population WILL increase.
Well if the lag were fixed...
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Portmanteau
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Posted - 2010.09.06 04:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jaggati Khan darius is just a troll right? i dont think ive actually be positive about anything anyone posts in here, much less give a reasonable argument??
anyways, i support this :)
you're wrong, he's right, in spite of the fact he's a troll. It's like Hirana said, more space with just make the NAP fest power blocs even worse than they are, what's need is a change in mechanics, don't hold ur breath. Mebbe you'll get lucky and most 0,.0 players will quit because of the lag/NAPfest.... who knows ?
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: darius mclever there is soooooooooo much empty space even in highsec, more so in lowsec and 0.0. we dont need more. we just need people to spread out.
I think is talking about TQ server not test. I can pretty much fly to any high sec system and find at least 5 people in it, most of have 20 and many have 50. Sometimes in non station systems that have all the belts stripped during off peak hours it will be a whole 5-10 minutes before someone comes in system.
If i were a real space pilot and my ship was broke down in space somewhere i would hope the system i was in was as busy as even the most remote eve solar systems as i would be rescued and home by dinner.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: darius mclever there is soooooooooo much empty space even in highsec, more so in lowsec and 0.0. we dont need more. we just need people to spread out.
I think is talking about TQ server not test. I can pretty much fly to any high sec system and find at least 5 people in it, most of have 20 and many have 50. Sometimes in non station systems that have all the belts stripped during off peak hours it will be a whole 5-10 minutes before someone comes in system.
If i were a real space pilot and my ship was broke down in space somewhere i would hope the system i was in was as busy as even the most remote eve solar systems as i would be rescued and home by dinner.
try devoid/khanid/kador space. or deep heimatar/metropolis/molden. largely empty highsec areas.
more so for lowsec.
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Macs Mayhem
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Posted - 2010.09.06 19:19:00 -
[21]
To summarize my thoughts in reply - today, its reasonably easy for the large power-blocks or "player bases" to hold large fractions of EvE. It will be harder for the same size player base to hold a region twice the size, especially if the new solar systems are sparsely connected like a mesh; hell, let's make the size 10 times as big... less load on each solar system due to players spreading out, and more solar systems
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Rhadia
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Posted - 2010.09.06 19:33:00 -
[22]
While it might be interesting to see the effect of many more solar systems (Like wormholes being able to lead to a new galaxy) I think CCP would be better off making the space we've already got feel as big as it actually is. As it is, the areas in a solar system are rather bland and uneventful.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.09.06 20:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Macs Mayhem To summarize my thoughts in reply - today, its reasonably easy for the large power-blocks or "player bases" to hold large fractions of EvE. It will be harder for the same size player base to hold a region twice the size, especially if the new solar systems are sparsely connected like a mesh; hell, let's make the size 10 times as big... less load on each solar system due to players spreading out, and more solar systems
But just expanding 00 doesn't do anything about the big boys bringing in a cyno and poppin' in to say hi to their new geographically screwed pals who can't create big empty buffer space they might rent to cannon fodder/early warning system people. You'd have pretty much the same thing there is now, new small group moves in to tame some 00, get squished/leaned on by the big neighbors.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Otocinclus
Minmatar Project Nemesis The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.09.07 01:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Having 200+ capitals is currently all you really need to hold onto huge tracts of land
Confirming that women willingly offer themselves up to men with 200+ capital ships in their possesion.
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Macs Mayhem
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Posted - 2010.09.07 09:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bhattran
But just expanding 00 doesn't do anything about the big boys
Well... how big a space can the existing player bases effectively control? Sooner or later the space will get so big that existing player bases simply do not have the resources, logistics or the will power to control all of it.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.09.07 10:09:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Bhattran on 07/09/2010 10:10:35
Originally by: Macs Mayhem
Originally by: Bhattran
But just expanding 00 doesn't do anything about the big boys
Well... how big a space can the existing player bases effectively control? Sooner or later the space will get so big that existing player bases simply do not have the resources, logistics or the will power to control all of it.
It remains to be seen, but the ability to jump into anyone's backyard with the doomsday fleet is such an edge that new/smaller groups would basically still be under the current powerblock's thumb. Even if the existing powerblocks don't/can't own/control the space directly their threat of 'coming' to get you before you get too strong or if you fail to pay rent is real enough.
Something more needs to be done like A) cutting the current 00 from being able to drop in like that and or B) denying capitals the ability to exist in this new space, I think both are a good method. But those won't guarantee that new space won't have people trying to control you remotely from 00 but it makes it possible/feasible for new groups to get in and establish themselves without facing the enemy army when they haven't even built a palisade so to speak.
Making the space harder to control is a good idea to prevent new/future powerblocks but as I said leaves the new space holders with the distinct disadvantages that; they can't own the same kind of bulk space that current powerblocks do, aren't as 'safe' as current 00 holders, have fewer resources-less space less resources, and limits or denies the ability to have renters in space they don't directly use themselves. I think making it hard to just own lots of space is very good but you have to balance that drawback with a benefit, my idea is denying jumps/capitals maybe there is a better one I don't know.
More of my thoughts on this in TL form: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1378352&page=3 -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Macs Mayhem
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Posted - 2010.09.07 11:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Macs Mayhem on 07/09/2010 11:13:27
Originally by: Bhattran
It remains to be seen,
Yeah it does. I'm just talking about extending 0.0 (or even empire), not creating some kind of "new" space with different properties; nor altering properties of existing space. Adding solar systems is technically a plain reuse of existing mechanics.
I believe that if the number of solar systems were large enough, new players could naturally "hide away" and build up their strengths in some far-out region. Probably it would have to be very large, like millions of systems, for this to be plausible.
Then these players could start attacking more well-known regions of space, that are held by conventional player bases. (Kind of like the mountain/jungle tribes attacking civilization...)
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Sazuka Kirr
Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.09.07 13:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: darius mclever there is soooooooooo much empty space even in highsec, more so in lowsec and 0.0. we dont need more. we just need people to spread out.
I think is talking about TQ server not test. I can pretty much fly to any high sec system and find at least 5 people in it, most of have 20 and many have 50. Sometimes in non station systems that have all the belts stripped during off peak hours it will be a whole 5-10 minutes before someone comes in system.
If i were a real space pilot and my ship was broke down in space somewhere i would hope the system i was in was as busy as even the most remote eve solar systems as i would be rescued and home by dinner.
try devoid/khanid/kador space. or deep heimatar/metropolis/molden. largely empty highsec areas.
more so for lowsec.
^^ This. I spent quite some time running missions and mining in Derelik, Metropolis and Kador and I found many quiet systems, which would see maybe 1-2 visitors passing through an hour.
CCP Greyscale wrote a nice post about the size of EVE last night, that you can read here. It continues over onto the next page.
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spoon reaver
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Posted - 2010.09.07 13:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: spoon reaver on 07/09/2010 13:16:19 Edited by: spoon reaver on 07/09/2010 13:15:01 we need something a little different.
Adding more 0.0 space just means that the already established empires will claim more 0.0 space leaving none for developing or hoping to develop corps. the current empires already have a ton of space they don't really use.. adding more space of the same type just means your going to increase the size of established empires useless territory.
and lets say you do find turf or added new turf unclaimed by these empires? how long can you old out there til..lets say AAA or atlas or whatever empire you know best finds you? I will leave that part up to your imagination..
you know what this game needs especially in null/low sec and/or wh holes (mabe)...
A random event generator of Sea monsters
I am not talking about gremlins hiding under the bed or in the closet type monsters.. but old legends like the giant squids bring ship of the lines crushing into the abyss.. kinda like titans ore carriers fate if they met one by my personal taste such old legends would fit well in eve.. give a hole new meaning to exploration and risk of living in null space.
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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.09.07 20:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: darius mclever there is soooooooooo much empty space even in highsec, more so in lowsec and 0.0. we dont need more. we just need people to spread out.
Space is not the issue, jump gates are. The majority of players who grief are found in key strategic systems, ones right next to highsec hubs. tama being one example but there are many others all over eve.
No we don't need more systems, flying through 0.0 I have found most systems deserted and empty, the only way now to get to 0.0 without going through jump gates is wormholes but this can take a while to find also.
We need more connections and more gates not more systems so that it becomes more difficult for ganks to camp each and every entry to lowsec / nullsec.
Spread out the number of entry points and you will see more populated systems.
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