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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:22:00 -
[1]
From here:
Quote: #1: Improvements to planetary features In Tyrannis, players finally got the opportunity to plant roots of a sort by forming colonies and mining the planets for resources. Whilie CCP thought this was a promising start, the team decided it could do a lot better. So for the winter expansion, the planetary system is getting an overhaul with the supreme goal of improving the usability and increasing the fun factor of this slice of gameplay. CCP became dissatisfied with the fact that players would set up their colonies and mining operations and then leave them be. So to encourage subscribers to keep tabs on their colonial investments, the game will now encourage players to check on their investments periodically and tweak them depending on how low resources are getting and where better deposits lie. So by fine-tuning the operations of the master extractor, a shrewd player can increase his output if he's willing to micromanage. Conversely, a player who wants to sit back and not worry about hands-on management may set up long-term operations for a smaller return on invested time.
PI lacks any sort of multiplayer feature. It lacks population control (will you rule benevolently or not?). But CCP told us that they were going to iterate on it, that it was not final... so we stopped whining and waited. But now it seems that there will be just a slight change in mechanics so that the more you play with it the more you get... BUT it's like this already!
What does it mean? 1. PI will not be expanded to entail PVP (orbital bombardment or the like), or any real multiplayer feature; 2. No population control;
That is: no significant improvements in PI in the next expansion.
Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:27:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Camios F Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
Or it's the best the team assigned to it can do within 4-5 months.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:36:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Camios F Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
Or it's the best the team assigned to it can do within 4-5 months.
Really, moving resource hotspots around if a certain extraction rate is hit?
Fire the team then.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Camios From here:
Quote: #1: Improvements to planetary features In Tyrannis, players finally got the opportunity to plant roots of a sort by forming colonies and mining the planets for resources. Whilie CCP thought this was a promising start, the team decided it could do a lot better. So for the winter expansion, the planetary system is getting an overhaul with the supreme goal of improving the usability and increasing the fun factor of this slice of gameplay. CCP became dissatisfied with the fact that players would set up their colonies and mining operations and then leave them be. So to encourage subscribers to keep tabs on their colonial investments, the game will now encourage players to check on their investments periodically and tweak them depending on how low resources are getting and where better deposits lie. So by fine-tuning the operations of the master extractor, a shrewd player can increase his output if he's willing to micromanage. Conversely, a player who wants to sit back and not worry about hands-on management may set up long-term operations for a smaller return on invested time.
PI lacks any sort of multiplayer feature. It lacks population control (will you rule benevolently or not?). But CCP told us that they were going to iterate on it, that it was not final... so we stopped whining and waited. But now it seems that there will be just a slight change in mechanics so that the more you play with it the more you get... BUT it's like this already!
You seem surprised?
Originally by: Camios What does it mean? 1. PI will not be expanded to entail PVP (orbital bombardment or the like), or any real multiplayer feature;
This was never promised with the next expansion. Only thing 'multip-player' like talked about was exchange/teamwork of some sort on planets for the next expansion/iteration on PI afaik..
Originally by: Camios 2. No population control;
I gotta give you that, but they said it will be implemented somewhen in the future.. but same as with above applies, no distinct point in the future was communicated, just that it's on the table and that they definitely want it and that it will be awesome..
Originally by: Camios That is: no significant improvements in PI in the next expansion.
Significant improvements who probably gonna make it with next expansion from my POV: - less clickfest - team-work of some sorts on planets - better UI for PI (all stuff windowed, HUD visible when in space and in PI-mode) If you expect more than that, you expect too much I'm afraid.
Originally by: Camios Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
They listen, but their problem is that although they use scrum/agile their development plan is already pretty rigid. Better luck next time.. or shall I say in 17 months?
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Camios F Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
Or it's the best the team assigned to it can do within 4-5 months.
Yes, maybe. So? I don't care. PI was advertised with population control in many situations (trailers, interviews), and it currently lacks
PI deserves developing resources as a lot of existing systems do, because PI is part of the big scheme of things, it's part of CCP vision of EVE, the "World Domination", the Dust-EVE link and so on.
But now CCP wants to give us Incursions. They put aside their vision chose to put developement time in a new feature that will be shipped incomplete and maybe even bugged...
Incursions could be cool, yes, but it would be even cooler if you added another team to PI development, or to fix sov warfare or factional warfare.
And I don't believe in copy paste programming, I think that "copy paste programming" is a thing that CCP invented as a preemptive damage control.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 05/09/2010 09:51:27
Quote: While CCP thought this was a promising start...
Quote: CCP became dissatisfied with the fact that players would set up their colonies and mining operations and then leave them be...
It's very telling and diplomatic that Massively does not include player opinions on PI.
Actually I'm afraid that it will become even more of a clickfiesta with the next expansion while remaining as dull as it is now (I want to tyrannize my slaves and blow up my neighbours !).
I really hope I'm wrong about this
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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TriadSte
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:57:00 -
[7]
Heres my 2 cents on PI:
I paid roughly 1.5 billion from NPC orders for 2 months supply of certain products with those I've made 10 billion back.
However I've now run dry of my NPC products leaving me a bit high and dry on what to do with my planets. PI for me was very nice in the beginning but now I find it a little poor. Most people I know spend there daily play time clicking and making nothing which is rubbish.
Command centers need to be COMMAND CENTERS what I mean is being able to set ALL procs and extractors onto a specific cycle time with just 1 click. For me right now CCs should just be called "hubs" because what do they actually do? You've given an object a flashy name for no reason.
I also believe that corps or single players should be able to move items from one hanger from 1 orbital station to another for a fee of course. With all the technology we have in eve we cant design a interstellar transport system for extracted and refined PI items?
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 10:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
You seem surprised?
Ok, not really...
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Camios What does it mean? 1. PI will not be expanded to entail PVP (orbital bombardment or the like), or any real multiplayer feature;
This was never promised with the next expansion. Only thing 'multip-player' like talked about was exchange/teamwork of some sort on planets for the next expansion/iteration on PI afaik..
Originally by: Camios 2. No population control;
I gotta give you that, but they said it will be implemented somewhen in the future.. but same as with above applies, no distinct point in the future was communicated, just that it's on the table and that they definitely want it and that it will be awesome..
Originally by: Camios That is: no significant improvements in PI in the next expansion.
Significant improvements who probably gonna make it with next expansion from my POV: - less clickfest - team-work of some sorts on planets - better UI for PI (all stuff windowed, HUD visible when in space and in PI-mode) If you expect more than that, you expect too much I'm afraid.
Originally by: Camios Hope I'm wrong but this means once more that CCP does not listen to the community.
They listen, but their problem is that although they use scrum/agile their development plan is already pretty rigid. Better luck next time.. or shall I say in 17 months?
The problem is the lask of vision. For tyrannis, PI was the mother of all features, the hub of all richess, the roots for the future.. Now for the next expansion we should all be excited about incursions and we'll just get some UI improvement on PI.
There is just a deeply rooted problem in EVE.
You have to do choices. Choices will force you to leave a part of the game, to join another. This means that if you want to have large scale PVP in 0.0, you cannot play factional warfare. You will not even train skills for PI, or venture ino wormholes. EVE is a quite rigid game from this point of view: you have to specialize and to choose your battlefield to succeed, but this means you have to forget about some other aspect of the game.
Adding more aspects to the game can give some fresh air and a new niche to people (as wormholes did), but constantly shifting focus around on multple and incomplete features is not a good way to proceed, and the community is tired about this.
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Bane Loppknow
Pel Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.05 11:13:00 -
[9]
CCP is turning into Square-Enix, minus the massive foundation of invincible games.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.05 11:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: TriadSte interstellar transport system
As long as those can be dealt with in the same manner as other NPC haulers.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.05 11:53:00 -
[11]
My worry is that I haven't seen anything along the lines of them asking what the PI users feel needs to be done.
They want to change things around based on what they've observed, but they have no idea why they've observed this and run a great risk of giving us something on the test server 3 weeks away from release that solves absolutely nothing and only makes the tedium and clickfestyness even worse. To fix this they would obviously have to communicate their ideas before they start working on them, which would be a firstà
àand by the sounds of it in the interview, they're going to have to redo the entire extraction process to make it worth-while to micromanage on that level (and you already earn more if you keep coming back to your installation, so what that comment is all about is anyone's guessà). That sounds like a kind of change that they actually need to talk to the users about before they ruin it even more.
Either way, before they start "improving" on PI, they need to actually make it work, and to make it work, they need to discuss it with the players. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.09.05 12:11:00 -
[12]
I'm not too worried since it is just a small selection of new things he talks about and it is still early in the expansion cycle. Sort of an apetiser of things to come.
That said if that is the best they can come up with, they need to prevent the current dev team that is working on PI from ever working on it again. It currently is just bare bones with no multiplayer features and if the only thing the team manages to do is this minor tweak of the current system and work on the UI a bit, the team is pretty much is made of fail. It would have been acceptable in the start, since they had to create the whole system from nothing. Now they don't have that excuse to fall back on.
I'm not too pessimistic at this point though. They can't be that unimaginative and ignorant, that they would expect people to give a rats ass about such minor tweaks to a feature, that from a gameplay perspective is currently shallow and uninteresting.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Invicta.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 12:13:00 -
[13]
Pretty much the same as every other new feature, they stick it in half finished, make lots of promises when people point out its half finished and maybe do one or two five minute tweaks and then completely abandon and work on the next half finished feature and have proved this with almost every expansion since forever.
No matter how many omgwtfwallsoftext blogs they post about "iterative development" CCP are to stuck in this cycle now to ever change and they will do the same with Dust and Incarna.
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Daniel Jackson
Caldari Planet Watchers
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Posted - 2010.09.05 12:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 05/09/2010 12:25:39 how about let our launch pads launch Nuclear ICBM's like so
http://img823.imageshack.us/i/omgtellmomthatiloveher.png/ ___
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.09.05 12:26:00 -
[15]
wait.... don't you have to make like 1000 clicks every 24h to keep extracting/producing? or is that what ccp means by "leave them be"
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.05 13:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: RentableMuffin wait.... don't you have to make like 1000 clicks every 24h to keep extracting/producing? or is that what ccp means by "leave them be"
Yes.
My guess is that they're unhappy that we're not constantly decommissioning and relocating our extractors to match a changing output heatmap, and that this fact is screwing with their plans for how the ISK sinks would work.
ànever mind that this would change the clickfest from four clicks/two double-clicks per extractor to restart the process, to, ohà 15+ clicks per extractor under the current system. You'd need 4,000 clicks instead of a measly 1,000! Much more enjoyable! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.09.05 14:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: RentableMuffin wait.... don't you have to make like 1000 clicks every 24h to keep extracting/producing? or is that what ccp means by "leave them be"
Yes.
My guess is that they're unhappy that we're not constantly decommissioning and relocating our extractors to match a changing output heatmap, and that this fact is screwing with their plans for how the ISK sinks would work.
If! that will be the case, and we don't know anything yet but that they're going to change things, they better lower the costs for setting up extractors and production facilities and give us a whole lot more CPU to play with.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.05 14:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tippia on 05/09/2010 14:12:22
Originally by: Serpents smile If! that will be the case, and we don't know anything yet but that they're going to change things, they better lower the costs for setting up extractors and production facilities and give us a whole lot more CPU to play with.
Pah! Screw CPU ù I need grid dammit!!
àI also ned speellign apparently. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 14:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tippia Pah! Screw CPU ù I need grid dammit!!
Speculation: I think that when they started designing PI they thought about other kind of structures like academias and planetary defences or something like this, that would have required a lot of CPU, while factories and extractors would have required more powergrid.
While this is a speculation, it's clear that there is too much CPU un the command centers, and it probably means that something is missing from the design.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.05 14:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Camios Speculation: I think that when they started designing PI they thought about other kind of structures like academias and planetary defences or something like this, that would have required a lot of CPU, while factories and extractors would have required more powergrid.
While this is a speculation, it's clear that there is too much CPU un the command centers, and it probably means that something is missing from the design.
The CPU can be explained by the presence of the High Tech Production Plants (1,100 tf) and the Launch Pads (3,600 tf) ù set up a planet for mass-creation of tier-4 products and/or use Launch Pads as oversized storage facilities and that CPU dwindles fast. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.09.05 14:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 05/09/2010 14:38:45
Quote: CCP became dissatisfied with the fact that players would set up their colonies and mining operations and then leave them be.
Still this sounds odd. You plunk down on a planet and say: 'hey this now is my territory. Why the Fuuu would I move? All the resources close by are mine to mine now.'
Of course with the skeleton previous PI installment was, there is no way you can bump someone out mining on top of your own extractors. It was in the vision but apparently that got forgotten/ lost in a sprint beyond anything.
What they should have done is introduce something that makes us fight to stay where we are on a planet. Sadly it sounds like they haven't got a clue what to do with PI now it is here. :3
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Zeuth Proxy
Caldari Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.09.05 15:00:00 -
[22]
This is just the initial release of PI. As stated in many Dev Blogs and interviews CCP releases things in stages then builds on to it. The idea behind PI was to be the "link" between Eve and Dust. PI being what EvE players set up and pay Dust merc contracts to either defend or attack. So right now there is no real multiplayer feature when it comes to PI but it will when DUST comes around.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.09.05 15:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 05/09/2010 15:31:54 I for one am looking forward to sieging a planet with insane EHP
EDIT:
TBH if they made it a new kind of "POS" existing in orbit around planets for PI, it would have simplified the whole thing from a multiplayer and PVP standpoint. Though, would not have served to reduce it suckage much.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.05 16:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy This is just the initial release of PI. As stated in many Dev Blogs and interviews CCP releases things in stages then builds on to it. The idea behind PI was to be the "link" between Eve and Dust.
Yadda yadda.. I'm tired of this and the threads with 70+ pages each telling CCP the same from many more players. They always want to build up on it. PI would be the 1st (first!) where this would happen. And so far (in doubt for the accused) we didn't see a change in that pattern.
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy PI being what EvE players set up and pay Dust merc contracts to either defend or attack. So right now there is no real multiplayer feature when it comes to PI but it will when DUST comes around.
Yeah.. and now show me the legion of pod pilots who would go out there and rent mercs to defend/destroy PI installations for more than lulz..
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Zeuth Proxy
Caldari Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.09.05 16:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Zeuth Proxy on 05/09/2010 16:07:41
Originally by: Tres Farmer Words
CCP wont. They will abandon PI in the same fashion they do to almost all of the other "features" they've released in the past.
I was gonna add that in my initial reply but I felt like being nice.
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 16:46:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Camios on 05/09/2010 16:46:54
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Camios Speculation: I think that when they started designing PI they thought about other kind of structures like academias and planetary defences or something like this, that would have required a lot of CPU, while factories and extractors would have required more powergrid.
While this is a speculation, it's clear that there is too much CPU un the command centers, and it probably means that something is missing from the design.
The CPU can be explained by the presence of the High Tech Production Plants (1,100 tf) and the Launch Pads (3,600 tf) ù set up a planet for mass-creation of tier-4 products and/or use Launch Pads as oversized storage facilities and that CPU dwindles fast.
No. Of course, if you want a planet full of launch pads and high tech facilities, you'll need a lot of CPU. But in order to feed such colony you will need dozens of planet colonies running just extractors and basic or advanced processors.
So, only one planet over 70 can be correctly balanced? If you consider the whole production chain, you have a lot of wasted CPU, and you're hungry of PG. It should be just imbalance, but I like to think that at CCP someone knows maths and they planned something else to use that CPU.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.09.05 20:31:00 -
[27]
OP YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY PI HAS AT LEAST 1 TEAM WORIKING ON IT UNLIKE 99% PART OF EVE WHERE ALL IS ABONDONED FOR GOOD.
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Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 21:02:00 -
[28]
YES I KNOW ME TOO HAVE THE CAPS LOCK BROKEN
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Lonzo Kincaid
Black Bands
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Posted - 2010.09.05 22:09:00 -
[29]
I think CCP would actually be happier if we ignored PI, that way we'd forget one thing they have to be ashamed of. ----------------------
Hope that they'll make this game fun again is the only reason i still play. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.05 22:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid I think CCP would actually be happier if we ignored PI, that way we'd forget one thing they have to be ashamed of.
Well, they shouldn't have made it a requirement for POSes thenà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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