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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.09 14:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Limvala Adur Edited by: Limvala Adur on 09/09/2010 11:21:48
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: chatgris If you can't build them in lowsec, they shouldn't be fully functional in lowsec.
Well said.
This makes sense, because? There are anomalies in lowsec which prevent the fighter bombers to launch from the Super Carrier?
Fail. Proposed game mechanics (like interdiction spheres) does not equal role play.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.09 15:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Fail. Proposed game mechanics (like interdiction spheres) does not equal role play.
Blame it the same anomalies that prevent DDs from firing or blame Concord for screwing with settings on their cloaking jammers .... Eve is filled with exceptions with corresponding holes in the PF so won't be hard to justify.
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Zverofaust
Gallente Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.09 18:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dimitryy
Originally by: Zverofaust I'd like to see carriers made cheaper, weaker and more affordable, and thus more popular; placed into the role of "super drone battleship" instead of "carefully protected mega-expensive super logistics".
>Carefully Protected >mega-expensive
oh lawd
oh noes, i'm sorry i'm not part of some 5000 man alliance with tons of nullsec spa-ohwait
I realize faction battleships are as or even more expensive than carriers and dreads and that has nothing to do with my point, which is that carrier/dread use in lowsec warfare is ******ed. Case in point, yesterday we engaged a small enemy fleet with roughly the same size fleet of our own consisting of two carriers (each), some battleships and some battlecruisers. We generally just stroked our *****es in each other's directions for a good 20 minutes as neither could break the others' carrier reps. Nothing was killed except some ammo stacks and it made me wonder what the **** the point of carriers are except to make fights pointless and boring. ___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara |
Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Zverofaust
oh noes, i'm sorry i'm not part of some 5000 man alliance with tons of nullsec spa-ohwait
I realize faction battleships are as or even more expensive than carriers and dreads and that has nothing to do with my point, which is that carrier/dread use in lowsec warfare is ******ed. Case in point, yesterday we engaged a small enemy fleet with roughly the same size fleet of our own consisting of two carriers (each), some battleships and some battlecruisers. We generally just stroked our *****es in each other's directions for a good 20 minutes as neither could break the others' carrier reps. Nothing was killed except some ammo stacks and it made me wonder what the **** the point of carriers are except to make fights pointless and boring.
Replace "carriers" with guardians and try again. Now go make a thread whining about logistics in low-sec
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.09 19:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dirk Mortice Replace "carriers" with guardians and try again. Now go make a thread whining about logistics in low-sec
True up to a point. - Guardians can be spotted a mile away and wont suddenly appear next to a random neutral cyno. - Guardians do not have 1M+ hitpoints and do not deal damage like a gank BS. - Guardians do not lag everything out when launching drones. - Guardians are accessible to just about everyone. - Guardians can be countered by a single neuting BS. - Etc.
Otherwise an excellent comparison. Please come again.
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Jedak K'ral
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Posted - 2010.09.09 20:25:00 -
[36]
Welcome to EVE. It took me about a year (started playing about 1.5 years ago) to figure out there was this glass ceiling to 0.0 myself. I've lived in NPC nullsec almost the entire duration. If you think lowsec gets lolzy hotdrops a lot, you would shudder at the crap I see on a weekly basis. You learn to just take a break for days at a time when an entity weilding supercaps is not otherwise occupied or far away. I've been a part of some really amazing corp efforts to break into sov. without being taxed to death and being a complete slave of some pre-existing juggernaught, but the fact is that's not possible at this juncture, and it hasn't been for quite some time. You can move into the south where territory can actually be taken on occasion, but even there you're a mere day or two away from some ass-wipe taking note and blobbing you out with SC's.
I've posted in the suggestions forum, spoken with CSM candidates and members on the topic, even sent inquiries to CCP about why they feel it's necessary to so reward pre-existing power with even more power, but it got me about as far as you're getting here: Most everyone understands what you're talking about, but nobody with enough influence to do anything cares since they are by in large beneficiaries of the status quo. So enjoy being trolled until some mod locks the thread or the post dies from lack of interest. If you are really interested in being anything but a tiny under-the-radar skirmisher then you absolutely must join a big bloated power-house that's been around for years and years. Otherwise, you're just counting the days until someone with a supercap war machine sees you as easy killmails.
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Limvala Adur
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Posted - 2010.09.09 20:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: X Gallentius Fail. Proposed game mechanics (like interdiction spheres) does not equal role play.
I see sarcasm is a term of which you aren't familiar?
Hirana Yoshida: First of, snipping things out of context doesn't make you smart, nor original. If you want to have a constructive argument with someone, that's a piece of advice you really need to learn. Now....
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida What I am saying is that people, who chose a playstyle that is boring them to tears....
You are WHO exactly to claim this as true? What might be boring for you, is why another player bought this game and played for. Alone in EVE, you are not.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Kindergarten behaviour at its finest, the other guy is having more fun than me so I have to ruin it by pushing him around and/or break his toy.
Said badly, but still this is the driving force behind PvP. Whether it's an afk cloaky pilgrim in a ratting system or a vagabond, out to hunt new players, ruining the fun of another person is what makes a lot of people play, I don't personally support that, but they have a right to do what they wish.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Taking into consideration that super-capitals were never meant to exceed a few dozen or so is a much better indicator of how out of hand it is.
Who said that? I've never read anything or heard anything which even remotely supports your theory. EVE is getting more players drawn to it, which means that, as bad as it may sound to you, after 1 year those players will be able to deploy their own capitals and after two, perhaps even super capitals, it depends on what they want to do. But as the player base matures, so does the game.
Lim
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Tellahane
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Posted - 2010.09.10 14:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jedak K'ral Welcome to EVE. It took me about a year (started playing about 1.5 years ago) to figure out there was this glass ceiling to 0.0 myself. I've lived in NPC nullsec almost the entire duration. If you think lowsec gets lolzy hotdrops a lot, you would shudder at the crap I see on a weekly basis. You learn to just take a break for days at a time when an entity weilding supercaps is not otherwise occupied or far away. I've been a part of some really amazing corp efforts to break into sov. without being taxed to death and being a complete slave of some pre-existing juggernaught, but the fact is that's not possible at this juncture, and it hasn't been for quite some time. You can move into the south where territory can actually be taken on occasion, but even there you're a mere day or two away from some ass-wipe taking note and blobbing you out with SC's.
I've posted in the suggestions forum, spoken with CSM candidates and members on the topic, even sent inquiries to CCP about why they feel it's necessary to so reward pre-existing power with even more power, but it got me about as far as you're getting here: Most everyone understands what you're talking about, but nobody with enough influence to do anything cares since they are by in large beneficiaries of the status quo. So enjoy being trolled until some mod locks the thread or the post dies from lack of interest. If you are really interested in being anything but a tiny under-the-radar skirmisher then you absolutely must join a big bloated power-house that's been around for years and years. Otherwise, you're just counting the days until someone with a supercap war machine sees you as easy killmails.
This ^^^
The big issue isn't so much that there's so many people in 0.0 there's no room, that's a lie. There is crap-tons of room. It's that alliances are taking up bigger space then they actually need for 3 reasons, first is it makes it easier to stop your borders at choke points, second is they make so much money the taxes is irrelevant so they can expand as much as they want to look like their bigger then they really are, and thirdly is because they can. You might go own the most insignificant system that has absolutely nothing in it and no value to anyone. and I guarantee you within a few days you will be titan/sc'd to death not because you might be a threat some day but because 0.0 is bored and they like to play with their toys and have nothing better to do.
Even if you got an alliance together and maybe could produce 10 sc's you would have a hard time controlling 1 single system before you got bombarded by a few thousand players with a few hundred sc's and titans just simply because they can. Now there's no real answer to how to fix the because we can part other then to give them a better reason to use their toys elsewhere, or make it less worthwhile attacking something that's not within so many lightyears of your nearest sov or something.
I still like the idea I read from someone a couple weeks back in that, in addition to paying an isk tax for each system with x sov you have to actually produce that same amount of taxed isk in that system. Meaning if it costs 50 million a day(just random number) for a sov 1 system, you have to kill enough rats to make 50 mil worth in that system, not just pay for it and leave it empty like the 80% of the 0.0 space is currently doing right now. That 50mil made in that system may not go towards paying it, but 50 mil worth better be generated from that system via killed rats by alliance members. Doing that will help collapse some space if they want to keep sov 5 around everywhere being as it actually takes work to maintain it instead of plex and taxes. but its only a small step in the big pictures of changes that need to happen to fix the 0.0 to nullsec discrepency.
Also concur with the no super capitols in low sec. It would provide a great stepping stone from high-sec to low sec to null sec progression.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.09.10 15:13:00 -
[39]
Personally, I'd like to see less caps in low sec as they typically are just used as station ornaments by docking bears or by larger blobs that are typically already unmatched by anything else in the area.
Carriers are already too cheap and easy to get and SC's are starting to become a bit way to common around low sec as well. Low sec should be about smaller gang warfare, not just another extension of capitol ships online.
If you want to play with cap ships, then man up move to null sec and quit humping Auga 3rd looking for some new way to have risk free PVP with docking games.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.10 16:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Limvala Adur Hirana Yoshida: First of, snipping things out of context doesn't make you smart, nor original. If you want to have a constructive argument with someone, that's a piece of advice you really need to learn. Now....
Quoting pertinent part and indicating that text is missing .. has been standard since dawn of time in academia. Since we don't operate with source lists but rather a scroll wheel I see no reason to change that.
Originally by: Limvala Adur You are WHO exactly to claim this as true? What might be boring for you, is why another player bought this game and played for. Alone in EVE, you are not.
An observer. 2-3 major factions in null at present with a few rogue elements. Everyone are NAP'ed with everyone else in their neighbourhood with wars of any significance few and far between .. if the blob-land dwellers are NOT bored as I assume then they must love ratting and mining more than the bile being spewed on 'carebears' would indicate.
Originally by: Limvala Adur Said badly, but still this is the driving force behind PvP....
I PvP for the challenge, to test my mettle as it were. What you describe is anti-social behaviour and should be stamped out online as it is offline. The fact that a player is probably behind the wheel of the hauler that was just ganked does not make the act of destroying it PvP, semantics to you perhaps but not to me and mine.
Originally by: Limvala Adur Who said that?....
CCP said that when they introduced the Titans. It is not "my theory" but cold hard fact. The player base matures because it gets older. I suspect that the amount of people behind the oldest accounts has been static for quite a while with all the 'new players' coming and going constantly. I further suspect that nearly ALL the characters that 'make' it to grown up status today and get the super-/capitals are in fact owned and run by be the very same old-timers (ie. Alts). CCP's biggest challenge has always been to make the game so appealing that a player sticks around after being suicided for the umpteenth time, but it seems they are willing to give on that and instead fill their coffers with ISK from console FPS gamers and teenagers who refuse to play a game with no avatars (ref: inactivity in actual gameplay improvements, balancing and needed mechanics changes).
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Deadtired
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.09.10 22:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I suspect that the amount of people behind the oldest accounts has been static for quite a while with all the 'new players' coming and going constantly. I further suspect that nearly ALL the characters that 'make' it to grown up status today and get the super-/capitals are in fact owned and run by be the very same old-timers (ie. Alts). CCP's biggest challenge has always been to make the game so appealing that a player sticks around after being suicided for the umpteenth time, but it seems they are willing to give on that and instead fill their coffers with ISK from console FPS gamers and teenagers who refuse to play a game with no avatars (ref: inactivity in actual gameplay improvements, balancing and needed mechanics changes).
Man your right you never hear about new players comming 0.0 in large quantities right now.
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Ulwithy Arillious
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Deadtired
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I suspect that the amount of people behind the oldest accounts has been static for quite a while with all the 'new players' coming and going constantly. I further suspect that nearly ALL the characters that 'make' it to grown up status today and get the super-/capitals are in fact owned and run by be the very same old-timers (ie. Alts). CCP's biggest challenge has always been to make the game so appealing that a player sticks around after being suicided for the umpteenth time, but it seems they are willing to give on that and instead fill their coffers with ISK from console FPS gamers and teenagers who refuse to play a game with no avatars (ref: inactivity in actual gameplay improvements, balancing and needed mechanics changes).
Man your right you never hear about new players comming 0.0 in large quantities right now.
It's impossible, I tell you!
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:22:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Irae Ragwan on 11/09/2010 09:22:04 Posting to confirm NC is full of newbs.
Ed: In large quantities.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 11/09/2010 09:28:59
Originally by: Deadtired Man your right you never hear about new players comming 0.0 in large quantities right now.
You should read the QEN closely and try to understand what it means. The fact that you have an influx at present means absolutely nothing, just that a new batch of newcomers has been suckered into padding the wallets of the fat-cats.
Originally by: QEN We see economic activity increase in the month before an expansion, during which time new players are entering the game and excitement about the expansion content peaks. Two to three months later, growth starts to decline again.
Originally by: QEN The number of characters per account is 1.99
Originally by: QEN On average, each active character held about 300 million ISK
Take a moment to think about what that implies, my suspicions are probably a lot closer to the truth than you might like. Few high SP characters with lots of alts holding a vast majority of total ISK supplying themselves (ie. Alts) with super-capitals as they 'mature'.
But you are right of course, your snap-shot impression that 0.0 population is booming supersedes any analysis of actual data
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Deadtired
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.09.11 18:20:00 -
[45]
You are mixing cause and effect incorrectly. The economic downturn is obviously a result of people getting bored with the new patch. Remember how EVE got its newest max number of users on a server record during alliance tournament 8.
There are lots of old guard players with lots of power but its not nearly as ridiculous as you try to make it out to be.
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