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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mishra Ninghor
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Right now a 1 or 10 man corporation can take on a 1000 man corporation and that corporation can't do ****, it simply has to sit there and take it. It has to fight when the attacker wants to, and it has to be on guard at all times.
It also has serious implications for the defender, opposed to the attacker. Since the defenders are often main characters and moneymaking characters while the attackers are dedicated PVP characters. It is in the defenders best interests,
The solution on the other hand is simple: * Add a -5% debuff to all stats (velocity, shield boost, production speed, shield, repairs, resistances, the works) to player Corporations if they do not have a Corporations Logistics Outpost. (Debuff because you don't want to add extra buffs in to the game or force people to be in a corp) * Add a Corporation Logistics Outpost. Recuireing a one time purchase, at least until it gets destroyed. Removing this debuff. * This Logistics Outpost would have to be placed somewhere (anywhere) in the same system as the Corporation Office is located. * For a corporations under 50 characters, they can use a "Small" station costing around 50-75m. Corporations under 250 can use a "Medium" station, costing around 250-300 millions. Corporations under 750 can use a Large station, costing around 750-1000 millions, and corporations with voer 750 people would have to use an Extra Large one, costing around 2 billions. * The Logistics Station is also responcible for Corporation Taxes, so if you do not one you can not claim or adjust taxes and the tax will be set to the standard 11% of the NPC corporations for as long as you don't, and the Tax ISK will be "lost". In other words if you do not have a logistics station the corporation as a whole will loose 11% of it's income.
These stations would all have a "Window of Attack" that could be freely configured by the CEO/President: * The small one would have a 2 hour Window each day. Because a 5 man corporation can not be expected to be online 24/7. * The medium one would have a 4 hour window each day. Medium corporations might be EU only, US only, Rus Only and so on so they should not be expected to defend it around the clock. * The large one would have an 8 hour window each day, 250 people should be able to cover that much. * The extra large one would be open to attack 24\7.
Now here comes the punchline: If an attackers station is destroyed, he will have 24 hours to put up a new one, or the war will end! And the defender will be listed as the victor. If a defenders station is destroyed, he will simply have to put up a new one or deal with the 5% debuff. The attacker will only be listed as the victor if the defender surrenders.
This way you will empower the defending Corporations with a way to win, to end the war and move on with their lives. Or make life harder for the attacker in general. And make sure that if he simply sits in a starbase and refuses to come out and fight, he will either loose money or loose the war within 24 hours.
The corporation headquarters would also serve as a starbase where you can gather up or go AFK, same as POS. And it will not recuire fuel (solar powered). |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stopped reading when you claimed a 10 man corp can't be defeated by a 1k one.
Learn to pvp risk averse noob. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
378
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
You need to read up on what exactly the word 'Simple' means. ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
904
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
The TL;DR is that you'd like to see people penalized for not fighting and you expect them to log in and fight you?
heh... Good Luck with that.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Mishra Ninghor
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Stopped reading when you claimed a 10 man corp can't be defeated by a 1k one.
Learn to pvp risk averse noob.
You can kill them, yes. But you can't end the war, which means you get blocked out of groups/incursions, pugs won't want to team with you, you're always at risk of beeing randomly attacked and so on. That means even if you kill them 100 times for every time they kill you, you're still left with the short end of the stick.
As an attacker, having the war last longer is a good thing, it gives you more bang for the buck, you get to kill more and you get to cause more havoc.
As a defender, a war is a serious inconvenience. So you want to fight as hard as possible, you want to crush the attacker to the ground and mutilate his corpse. And you want to end it as quickly as possible while having kicked as much ass as possible.
All this does, is to empower the defending corporation with a way of winning the war and moving on with their lives. It also makes wars more intense and you actually have to go out and fight them instead of covering in your starbase and beeing completely comfortable and safe. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mishra Ninghor wrote:Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Stopped reading when you claimed a 10 man corp can't be defeated by a 1k one.
Learn to pvp risk averse noob. You can kill them, yes. But you can't end the war, which means you get blocked out of groups/incursions, pugs won't want to team with you, you're always at risk of beeing randomly attacked and so on. That means even if you kill them 100 times for every time they kill you, you're still left with the short end of the stick. As an attacker, having the war last longer is a good thing, it gives you more bang for the buck, you get to kill more and you get to cause more havoc. As a defender, a war is a serious inconvenience. So you want to fight as hard as possible, you want to crush the attacker to the ground and mutilate his corpse. And you want to end it as quickly as possible while having kicked as much ass as possible. All this does, is to empower the defending corporation with a way of winning the war and moving on with their lives. It also makes wars more intense and you actually have to go out and fight them instead of covering in your starbase and beeing completely comfortable and safe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0 << you |
Mishra Ninghor
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:The TL;DR is that you'd like to see people penalized for not fighting and you expect them to log in and fight you?
heh... Good Luck with that.
I'd like to see people penalized for starting a war and loosing it. If they do not have the backbone to defend their Logistics bases, they loose. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
267
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Posted - 2012.07.29 01:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mishra Ninghor wrote: pugs
get out |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
762
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Posted - 2012.07.29 02:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
These things already exist. They're called "infrastructure hubs" and "territory claim units".
If you're talking about highsec, highsec was designed as a casual-friendly area where people can fight each other just because they want to, without having to worry about who "wins" or "loses". If you want to fight a war which has an actual impact, come to lowsec FW or to nullsec sov game. |
Mishra Ninghor
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 02:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:These things already exist. They're called "infrastructure hubs" and "territory claim units".
If you're talking about highsec, highsec was designed as a casual-friendly area where people can fight each other just because they want to, without having to worry about who "wins" or "loses". If you want to fight a war which has an actual impact, come to lowsec FW or to nullsec sov game. If your 10 man corp really can take on a 1000 man organization, you shouldn't have any problem finding friends.
Youre missing the point.
Say you are the defender: Attacker has killed 20 ships for 250 millions total. You have killed 500 ships for 7000 millions total.
The attacker can still prolong the war for as long as they want to, even though you're kicking their ass, the only way you can end the war is either for you to surrender, for him to stop paying, or for him to surrender.
Now were clearly kicking his ass, but we still have no control of whether the war will be prolonged or not. They can simply pay and go AFK for another week and we're left beeing in a constant state of war. Or if he looses all his money and ships the second day of the war, he still has no incentive at all to end it for another 5 days. He'll just log off for a few days, play another character or whatever.
If the winner wants to end the war, that should be his prerogative. |
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Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.29 02:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
So many retards that don't bother to read the thread. I'm all for this. All it serves to do is to raise the stakes! It provides more incentives to surrender (rather then wait out the war) as well as providing a way of fighting back.
I mean what the **** could be better then forcing both the attacker AND the defender to come out and play?!?!?!?! |
nat longshot
solo and loveing it Windowlicking Ninja Turtles
47
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Posted - 2012.07.29 04:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
First off op your in a npc corp stop your crying or post with you sad main.
wars are wars get over it. cry cry cry grow a pair will ya. |
Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
817
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Posted - 2012.07.29 04:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm not really sure what you're worried about given that your corporation can't actually have war declared on them. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
404
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Posted - 2012.07.29 05:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Didn't we see this thread a day or two ago? OP should be banned for plagiarism.
Also, 1000 man corp shouldn't have to run incursions by getting into a "pug" (pick up group, I'm assuming?). If you have that many people and can't put together an incursion "fleet", you might want to find a new corp.
CCP's new war paradigm is that you "pay for targets". If those ten guys are willing to pay for you guys as targets, let them.
Lastly, if it's that much of a problem, just drop corp, start a new one, and go run your incursions. Nothing Found |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
750
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Posted - 2012.07.29 05:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Didn't we see this thread a day or two ago? Yes we did, and I'll say here the exact same thing that I said there: so what you're saying is, that this one person is better than your 1000-man alliance? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
820
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
There's not much point in appealing to their pride. Pubbies have neither pride nor shame. The pubbie is only able to think about itself and complain when its own selfish desires aren't meant. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
I must have missed the "simple" part. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
809
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
OP... move your alliance out to low-sec. Most high-sec pvpers will not peruse anyone down there (because they are just as likely to be shot up by some random as well as you). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1091
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 05:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
This sounds suspiciously like another "I wanna be completely safe in high sec" thread.. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Mallak Azaria
476
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 08:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mishra Ninghor wrote:Right now a 1 or 10 man corporation can take on a 1000 man corporation and that corporation can't do ****
1000 people to scared to do anything about a 10 man corp?
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
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Tuireann Naari
Emrys Enterprises
32
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Posted - 2012.07.29 09:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
That's the thing about being on the defensive.
You have to wait for the aggressors to do something. |
Alara IonStorm
2757
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 09:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: highsec was designed as a casual-friendly area where people can fight each other just because they want to, without having to worry about who "wins" or "loses".
I'm sorry I get your point and agree with the concept of your post.
It's just the saying the underlined part in the land of Slaved Vindicators on the Undock with 3 Unaggressed Neutral instant docking RR Ships...
I think the problem with High Sec wars is they care a little too much about wins and losses in a very non casual way.
Made me laugh a lil bit. |
Mishra Ninghor
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 10:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tuireann Naari wrote:That's the thing about being on the defensive.
You have to wait for the aggressors to do something.
No, it's the problem with EVE War mechanics. All the power is put in the hands of the agressor. This would provide a way to turn things around and go on the offensive, to actually make continiueing the war so unbearable that it would end.
Are all you guys afraid to get your asses kicked here? |
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ISD Dosnix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
9
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Posted - 2012.07.29 11:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Moved to "Features&Ideas Discussion"
ISD Dosnix ISD Dosnix Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Mishra Ninghor
Perkone Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 11:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:I must have missed the "simple" part.
It is simple: 1. Add a space base to the game in S/M/L/XL variants. 2. Force Corporations to station them somewhere in the system where their offices are located. 3. Recuire the agressor in a war to keep his base up in order for the fight to continiue. And gives you something to kill if your opponent refuses to come out and play. |
dexington
99
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 11:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...
You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Mishra Ninghor
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 13:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
dexington wrote:Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...
You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk.
More risk for who? The attacking corp takes no risk at all.
Attacking corp: Loosing the war, want to stop? Just stop paying. Winning the war, want to go on? Just keep paying. Loosing the war, but still want to go on? Just keep paying. Winning the war, want to stop? Just stop paying.
Defending corp: Loosing the war, want to stop? Haha, nothing you can do. Winning the war, want to keep going? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can. Loosing the war, but still wants to go on? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can. Winning the war, want to end it? Haha, nothing you can do, it keeps going for as long as the looser wants to.
This doesn't ******* remove risk, it ADDS risk. If youre the defender, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff or put up a new one. If you're the attacker, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff and if you want to keep going with the war, you have to put up a new one.
Are you all shitting in your pants when someone mentions the possibility of a war backfiring? |
Austneal
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
33
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mishra Ninghor wrote:dexington wrote:Don't pick up the ball, it you don't want to play...
You can stay in a noob corp of you don't want to get war dec'ed, making a player run corp means more rewards and more risk. More risk for who? The attacking corp takes no risk at all. Attacking corp: Loosing the war, want to stop? Just stop paying. Winning the war, want to go on? Just keep paying. Loosing the war, but still want to go on? Just keep paying. Winning the war, want to stop? Just stop paying. Defending corp: Loosing the war, want to stop? Haha, nothing you can do. Winning the war, want to keep going? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can. Loosing the war, but still wants to go on? Sure, if the attacker wants to keep going he can. Winning the war, want to end it? Haha, nothing you can do, it keeps going for as long as the looser wants to. This doesn't ******* remove risk, it ADDS risk. If youre the defender, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff or put up a new one. If you're the attacker, and you loose your starbase, you have to live with a constant debuff and if you want to keep going with the war, you have to put up a new one. Are you all shitting in your pants when someone mentions the possibility of a war backfiring? I'm currently going through the same thing you're describing. Only difference is, we're actually contemplating our options, and trying to attack when we can.
They don't hold all the power, you're just too scared to apply your own. This is Eve... and having your back against the wall, flailing for your life is part of it. And tbh, I think they gave defenders too much power as it is with the wardec changes.
Also, your proposed changes are bad. Eve needs less arbitrary wardec fees and loopholes, and more people growing a spine and pewing things. |
Mishra Ninghor
Perkone Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.29 14:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Austneal wrote: I'm currently going through the same thing you're describing. Only difference is, we're actually contemplating our options, and trying to attack when we can.
They don't hold all the power, you're just too scared to apply your own. This is Eve... and having your back against the wall, flailing for your life is part of it. And tbh, I think they gave defenders too much power as it is with the wardec changes.
Also, your proposed changes are bad. Eve needs less arbitrary wardec fees and loopholes, and more people growing a spine and pewing things.
I haven't logged in today but I think the current state of the war like like 1,5 billions losses (agressor) vs 70-80m on our side. So please stop saying it's people who don't fight back that whine.
I don't want to be at war, I wanna kick his ass and end it. But he's the only one that can decide to do so. And that's what I have a problem with.
Right now there's no incentive to fight, in fact the most commonly used strategy vs these kinds of wardecs is to use cheap ships so that the agressor looses more money then he spends and gets no good kills. And in that way making him so boored fighting us that he decides to stop.
I mean WTF?! |
Raphael Celestine
Galactic Trust Inc
12
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Posted - 2012.07.29 18:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
The defender has two ways to win a war already: break the opposition's will, or their wallet.
Normally that should be quite sufficient for a 1000-man corp facing down a 10-man corp; it sounds like you've just been unlucky in being war-decced by someone with more guts (and ISK) than sense.
I don't think that's a problem, TBH: if someone has enough money to handle a 20:1 loss ratio, and is determined enough to keep fighting despite getting their asses handed to them like that, why shouldn't they be allowed to?
Mishra Ninghor wrote:I don't want to be at war, I wanna kick his ass and end it. But he's the only one that can decide to do so. And that's what I have a problem with. If you're kicking his ass and he keeps getting back up and coming at you again, you're not kicking it hard enough. You certainly do have a problem, but it's not the one you seem to think. |
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