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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.11 05:04:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/09/2010 03:05:39
Originally by: Grimpak look at how wolves hunt in the wilderness, and even the prehistoric humans did it.
it's just in our blood. we look for safety in numbers.
At the risk of turning this into a dog thread, i'm going to point out how they're poorly equipped for solo work. Their sole method of attack is to lock their jaw on something and thrash back and forth, which leaves them very vulnerable. If a lone pitbull or something is ever running at you, just hold your arm out and let him grab on, then start swinging him around and taunting him for not being blessed by darwin with anything real predators have. Your average dog only has a chance in combat if it gets large prey by the neck, which is very hard to do if you're alone and don't have a pack to overwhelm with. That in no way applies to every creature, however, and there's a multitude of them who are more than equipped for solo PvP, and do so with ease.
Humans are even more pathetic trying to hunt solo, but with their technology you can see them solo anything in any numbers.
well, it works for both species. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:57:00 -
[32]
CCP game mechanics favour learning curve instead of actual gameplay.
Setting long term goals and thinking how fun it would be when you get there.
(The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In no other MMOs you can totally disappear in 0.3-5 seconds. People never find one another and it's a matter of 15 sec for an enemy gang to appear. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.)
All inconsistencies in EvE PvP come from space traveling. Instantaneous, point to point, linear paths.
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Feilamya
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Opertone (The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In no other MMOs you can totally disappear in 0.3-5 seconds. People never find one another and it's a matter of 15 sec for an enemy gang to appear. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.)
All inconsistencies in EvE PvP come from space traveling. Instantaneous, point to point, linear paths.
No, these are not inconsistencies but simply the way this game works. The warp mechanics add an element to the game that "walking" games are lacking. It is what distinguishes the game from other games.
Asking to remove warp mechanics from EVE is like asking to play ice hockey on a lawn, without hockey sticks and with a ball instead of a puck. That would work, and it would remove some of the "inconsistencies" of ice hockey.
Fortunately, you are free to choose what kind of game to play. If you don't like warp mechanics, you shouldn't play EVE. (And if you are playing EVE because you don't like fantasy settings, then this is the wrong place to complain. It's neither the fault of CCP nor the players of their game that the game industry is unable to make another space game that doesn't suck).
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Jita Alt666
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:16:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Opertone (The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In no other MMOs you can totally disappear in 0.3-5 seconds. People never find one another and it's a matter of 15 sec for an enemy gang to appear. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.)
All inconsistencies in EvE PvP come from space traveling. Instantaneous, point to point, linear paths.
No, these are not inconsistencies but simply the way this game works. The warp mechanics add an element to the game that "walking" games are lacking. It is what distinguishes the game from other games.
Asking to remove warp mechanics from EVE is like asking to play ice hockey on a lawn, without hockey sticks and with a ball instead of a puck. That would work, and it would remove some of the "inconsistencies" of ice hockey.
Fortunately, you are free to choose what kind of game to play. If you don't like warp mechanics, you shouldn't play EVE. (And if you are playing EVE because you don't like fantasy settings, then this is the wrong place to complain. It's neither the fault of CCP nor the players of their game that the game industry is unable to make another space game that doesn't suck).
you mean doesnt suck worse than this one
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.09.11 13:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Feilamya
Originally by: Opertone (The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In no other MMOs you can totally disappear in 0.3-5 seconds. People never find one another and it's a matter of 15 sec for an enemy gang to appear. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.)
All inconsistencies in EvE PvP come from space traveling. Instantaneous, point to point, linear paths.
No, these are not inconsistencies but simply the way this game works. The warp mechanics add an element to the game that "walking" games are lacking. It is what distinguishes the game from other games.
Asking to remove warp mechanics from EVE is like asking to play ice hockey on a lawn, without hockey sticks and with a ball instead of a puck. That would work, and it would remove some of the "inconsistencies" of ice hockey.
Fortunately, you are free to choose what kind of game to play. If you don't like warp mechanics, you shouldn't play EVE. (And if you are playing EVE because you don't like fantasy settings, then this is the wrong place to complain. It's neither the fault of CCP nor the players of their game that the game industry is unable to make another space game that doesn't suck).
The age-old "if you don't like it, don't do it". How do you think improvements come to be?
In the 60s, soccerteams were not allowed to change players during a match which resulted, in one match, PelT limping out after numerous attacks. What happened? Gamerules were changed, substitutions were allowed. With your attitude, the result should have been PelT dropping soccer completely.
If you don't know who PelT is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9
If there are no alternatives, it's easy to say something is "best". The best way to heat food is on the stove...sure, til the microwave oven appeared.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.09.11 14:04:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grimpak well, it works for both species.
But grouping is only done to make up for shortcomings, which evolution and technology attempt to overcome. It's not something which is wise in all cases. For example a fleet of F-22 Raptors would be quite unnecessary, and even risky, when just one can often do the job.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Scoundrelus
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2010.09.11 14:06:00 -
[37]
PvP is what your prey allows it to be. If they hide in stations then PvP is camping, if they roam the belts then PvP is roaming.
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services Stratagem.
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Posted - 2010.09.11 14:38:00 -
[38]
you could always go back to ganking lvl 30s in STV if you don't want 'choke point' combat. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Portmanteau
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Posted - 2010.09.11 15:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Spurty You fight at:
- Gates because people 'warp' to them (Hopefully you have bubbles to 'draw' them to you in 0.0). - celestial objects because people 'warp' to them - missions, plexes and anomalies because people 'warp' to them - outside player owner structures because people warp to them - stations because, OMG really, do I need to say it again? - safe spots are usually 'ganks' and usually no real pvp takes place here
Sure, some people 'camp' gates, but this is usually as they are 'expecting' traffic like stragglers or unscouted people.
Sometimes combat involves locating kick out stations in low sec, then keeping a neutral alt in the system. Wait for a cyno-kessy to arrive and LOG EVERYONE IN lol.
Roams are the best way to get a fight though. F10 to open the map, look for red blobs on the map. Go in that direction with some buddies and don't worry too much if you lose your ship. They are easily replaced and you are getting some heart pumping pvp action.
You MUST pvp with at least 2 FCs. If they are any good, your enemy already know their names ;-)
Flying without an FC = no fun.
Oh and expect:
- one spy per 50 people in a fleet - to die on jumping into a system with more than 300 people in it due to factors outside your control - to learn a lot about how to 'really' fit your ship (Pass / buffer > Active tank) - to find some characters in this game that are going to make the experience 100% more fun - to close your eyes after a couple of hours fighting and still see laz0rs and missiles flying across your eyeballs.
lol
Can't stand the PVE side of EVE, its so lame after a decent fight with humans.
I hope it changes you and inspires you to inspire others to join you.
Because hiding from risk in megablobs is no fun without someone to hold ur hand
SRSLY, there aRE OTHER KINDS OF PVP
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.09.11 15:23:00 -
[40]
Combat in New Eden is either a blob, or a work of art.
AK
EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.11 16:10:00 -
[41]
camping is booring but can be very profitable.
fun pvp for me is roaming and chasing the ''WOW that was close!'' fights
--signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link |
Zacktar
Gallente Voodoo Tactical
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Posted - 2010.09.11 17:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Crimsonjade
Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Crimsonjade The best pvp. And this is no joke, is normally found in high sec . Of all the wars I have fought in the last 7 years of eve. Small wars for fun is where it's at
hisec pvp consists of camping a station with 50 neutral RR ships per gank ship. it also involves ****ing off fast when a small gang with large amounts of ecm support takes care of those neutral rr alts.
If you pick your empire war targets and get that response, your doing it wrong .
You have to pick your targets. And I'm not talking about eve uni. My friends and I would pick on 0.0 alliances and industrial alliances. Now we did camp Jita. We also roamed the pipelines that feed into it. Pvp is what you make it. One mans kill is someone elses " I got ganked" To
This tbqfh. Been to 0.0, have a pratting toon, and have been in extensive high sec warfare. Those who say high sec pvp is fail or those who partake in it are pussies don't know what they're talking about. The mechanics are different and not everybody is familiar with 0.0 tactics vs. low sec tactics vs. high sec tactics. Just because you aren't in a fleet of hundreds vs. hundreds dropping cap fleets all over hell and back doesn't nullify exciting and raw pvp elsewhere in Eve. High sec pvp is more an art. You have to make it that. Just throwing blobs of **** at a canvas doesn't make it art. Although some would argue the contrary.
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Tsumei Meyren
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.09.11 18:30:00 -
[43]
This thread annoys me, so therefore I shall add something the empire noobs and the blobbers don't know: No, Pvp isn't just on gates at al, there's plenty times you roam to kill **** or you kill people in space because they're doing something or they're stupid enough to think you are when you're really just waiting for them.
If your experience is all gatecamping, get a new corp/alliance -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting! |
Jalif
Minmatar Snuff Box
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Posted - 2010.09.11 18:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tsumei Meyren This thread annoys me, so therefore I shall add something the empire noobs and the blobbers don't know: No, Pvp isn't just on gates at al, there's plenty times you roam to kill **** or you kill people in space because they're doing something or they're stupid enough to think you are when you're really just waiting for them.
If your experience is all gatecamping, get a new corp/alliance
QFT
I notice to many people here who are talking and still don't have a clue how pvp works. We personally as corp even engage larger gangs then ourself, up to 3x times ones in a occasion and we still win the fight. If you need to outnumber your enemy every single time or else you will loose then the problem is not the game mechanics but yourself. Yes... YOU!
Latest PVP Video: Jalification III |
Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2010.09.11 20:51:00 -
[45]
Real battlefields and geographic locations mostly do not have the kinds of artificial choke points created by gates. The equivalent would be like if the only way to get into Iraq was through one highway from Kuwait that you couldn't go off of.
dred there are a lot of places where there is only one practical way to get from a to b. fair number of places where there is only one possible way from a to b. take a look at a map of afghanistan sometime for examples of this. the logistical headaches there are epic. you might also want to read about the canadian campaign to liberate holland in ww2 or the campaign in italy.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.09.11 20:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dred Control
Originally by: Mr Kidd I'm sorry to tell you that half of all combat is camping, even in real life.
"You guys wait here and don't let anyone take this hill" "You guys wait here and don't let anyone destroy this bridge" "You guys wait here and don't let anyone blow up our ammo depot" "You guys wait here and kill everyone that comes through"
"You guys go over there and take that hill" "You guys go over there and destroy that bridge" "You guys go over there and blow up that ammo" "You guys go through there and try not to get dead"
See how that works?
Only dumbasses meet their enemy on equal terms and for no tactical or strategic advantage.
Real battlefields and geographic locations mostly do not have the kinds of artificial choke points created by gates. The equivalent would be like if the only way to get into Iraq was through one highway from Kuwait that you couldn't go off of. Then the insurgents would spam all their IEDs onto that one road all the time and GG. In reality, there are many ways to travel into and out of locations in RL, whereas in Eve it is gates only (with the exception of cynos and jump bridges when they are available).
False. Most IED attacks are on the same spots on the same roads, and that is because the paths used by routine coalition forces are largely static. Viable routes between forward operating bases in Iraq are extremely limited due to road quality, intent to reduce impact of convoy movements on civilian populations, avoiding routes for which the danger cannot be effectively mitigated, and ease of navigation.
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inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
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Posted - 2010.09.11 21:15:00 -
[47]
Didn't have the patience to read through the whole thread, but here ar my 2 cents:
As far as I've experienced, "camping" isn't really the only word to be used in pvp. Indeed, most fight happen at gates, because they make ambushes/bringing reinforcement/baiting possible, but that doesn't mean 1 fleet needs to "camp" said gate.
Take roaming gangs for instance. The fleet roams around a given area, but sends out a scout first to try and tackle something one/two gates ahead (or one/two sistems ahead, in the belts). After a while, if there is an alliance that resides in the same given area that is not friendly with the roaming fleet, they will try to form up a defense gang to counter the roaming fleet. Now, the idea as some people already stated, is that no one will fight without knowing they have the upper hand, and that usually means chosing were and when to fight (that is, if the strenght ratio is smaller than 4/1 [AT MOST]). Roaming gangs are pretty fast usually, so that means that the "battlefield" is not really just one sistem, but many; and guess what links these systems, what choke points allow you to get from one to the other :P
So I say that's pretty much the whole thing with gates. Fleets either need to hide behind them or trap the enemies when they pass through. This doesn't really mean that you have to camp to get some pew-pew action.
Now, why don't people fight at other celestials, like planets or suns or whatever? Because there's no interest in that. As you said in the exceptions, people fight at moons to take down pos'. They fight in belts/missions/plex'/etc to kill ratters. They kill cynos to get easy kills. What would fighting at a planet bring you? Nothing really, with the sole exceptions of TCU's, Infrastructure Hubs, or the occasional guy who warped out from the fight to one of the celestials in the system :P
P.S.: Oh, and drag bubbles are pretty common, in 0.0 at least; they're one of the few ways to catch cloakers :P _________________________________________________
Small-scale pew pew!? Lies, yo' blob is on intel!!1 |
Misanth
Reaper Industries Asset Liberation Front.
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Posted - 2010.09.11 21:45:00 -
[48]
When camping, bring scout drones. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Jenny Cameron
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.11 21:52:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 11/09/2010 21:56:03 ---- Obviously the main reason PvP only happens near gates and stations is because you can't do anything in the "space between" when warping. You can fight at point A or B but not in the large area in between.
Space may seem big but the only places where people aren't in warp is gates, stations, roid belts, POSses, and when scanned down in missions. It's very different from say a regular battlefield where you can be attacked everywhere when travelling form A to B.
Hence gate- and station camps.
Originally by: Opertone The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.
Not saying that I agree but yes, warping has severe consequences on gameplay and PvP.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.12 09:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Grimpak well, it works for both species.
But grouping is only done to make up for shortcomings, which evolution and technology attempt to overcome. It's not something which is wise in all cases. For example a fleet of F-22 Raptors would be quite unnecessary, and even risky, when just one can often do the job.
not when the enemy also has a fleet of F-22's waiting for you ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.09.12 10:05:00 -
[51]
Try wormhole space, actual roaming still exists there.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.09.13 17:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dred Control The equivalent would be like if the only way to get into Iraq was through one highway from Kuwait that you couldn't go off of.
Buy a map then read up on when IDEs came into use in Iraq.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.13 17:42:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dred Control
Real battlefields and geographic locations mostly do not have the kinds of artificial choke points created by gates.
Tell that to the Greeks...
Syn Callibri Sister of the Blood Pact RTamhph=sta Fola of Vulkor-Khaine
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.09.13 18:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Opertone CCP game mechanics favour learning curve instead of actual gameplay.
Setting long term goals and thinking how fun it would be when you get there.
(The worst game mechanics - warp engine. Need to be totally removed. In no other MMOs you can totally disappear in 0.3-5 seconds. People never find one another and it's a matter of 15 sec for an enemy gang to appear. In walking games traveling takes a lot longer and only parties of up to 6 members can be teleported at higher costs.)
All inconsistencies in EvE PvP come from space traveling. Instantaneous, point to point, linear paths.
You seem to be having a problem so let me help you, this game is set in space, you're welcome.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.09.13 21:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/09/2010 03:05:39
Originally by: Grimpak look at how wolves hunt in the wilderness, and even the prehistoric humans did it.
it's just in our blood. we look for safety in numbers.
At the risk of turning this into a dog thread, i'm going to point out how they're poorly equipped for solo work. Their sole method of attack is to lock their jaw on something and thrash back and forth, which leaves them very vulnerable. If a lone pitbull or something is ever running at you, just hold your arm out and let him grab on, then start swinging him around and taunting him for not being blessed by darwin with anything real predators have. Your average dog only has a chance in combat if it gets large prey by the neck, which is very hard to do if you're alone and don't have a pack to overwhelm with. That in no way applies to every creature, however, and there's a multitude of them who are more than equipped for solo PvP, and do so with ease.
Humans are even more pathetic trying to hunt solo, but with their technology you can see them solo anything in any numbers.
I usually enjoy your posts, and often agree with you, but this analogy is so far off the mark I have to call you on it.
1: As far as being attacked by a single dog goes, it's pretty apparent that you have never been on the receiving end of having your arm grabbed by any aggressive breed of significant size. You'll likely be hurled off your feet and will be lucky to escape without severe injury (broken bones/dislocated joints/severe lacerations).
2: Canine's on the hunt are just as likely to attempt to cripple their prey by hamstringing them or injuring a foreleg (if applicable) as they are to go for the throat. And once their prey is crippled the canine can take their time and look for an opening of their choosing.
3: Pack hunting has evolved in most canine, and some feline, species because it is very efficient in bringing down far larger prey than the individual could... overall providing much more food per individual involved as opposed to solo hunting. It is a superior evolution of hunting tactics which enables pack hunting animals to support a larger population in a given area as they have more prey options available.
4: I think most would agree that it is more impressive for a species to evolve the intelligence to work closely with other members of it's pack/pride than it is to evolve bigger claws.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
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