Originally by: Cipher Jones

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you absolutely need an afterburner with AC 800's or you wont be able to complete several missions.

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Originally by: Bomberlocks

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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you absolutely need an afterburner with AC 800's or you wont be able to complete several missions.

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No, absolutely not. Angels always come to you or at least close enough to kill with ease, especially if you have 2 TEs and Barrage ammo.


2 x Ballistic Hardener II
2 x Explosive Hardener II

Just warp in, and start shooting. The only Angel missions that will require a bit of good aggro control are The Blockade. If you have problems, just remember to kill the scramming frigs first so you can warp out.

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Originally by: Bomberlocks

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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you absolutely need an afterburner with AC 800's or you wont be able to complete several missions.

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No, absolutely not. Angels always come to you or at least close enough to kill with ease, especially if you have 2 TEs and Barrage ammo.

[Malestrom Angels]
Hi:
8 x 800mmII AC, Barrage (and some RF Fusion for those that do get in close)
Mids:
1 x Large Cap Booster II (even named is good enough as you seldom need it)
1 x X-Large Shield Booster II (although I just use a Meta 4)
2 x Ballistic Hardener II
2 x Explosive Hardener II
Lows:
3 x Gyro II
2 x TE II (1 x TE II and 1 x DCU II if you're worried about not tanking enough)
Drones:
2 x Beserker II
3 x Valkyrie II
4 x Warrior II
Rigs:
1 x Large Core Defense Field Solidifier
1 x Large Core Defense Filed Extender
1 x whatever you want (CCC, Ambit, CDFE, CDFS) I have an anti-EM rig there for the few Angel NPCs (Saint, Malakin) that do EM damage.

Just warp in, and start shooting. The only Angel missions that will require a bit of good aggro control are The Blockade. If you have problems, just remember to kill the scramming frigs first so you can warp out.

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Originally by: Redshift XIII

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Edited by: Redshift XIII on 11/09/2010 22:43:50

Originally by: Bomberlocks

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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you absolutely need an afterburner with AC 800's or you wont be able to complete several missions.

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No, absolutely not. Angels always come to you or at least close enough to kill with ease, especially if you have 2 TEs and Barrage ammo.

[Malestrom Angels]
Hi:
8 x 800mmII AC, Barrage (and some RF Fusion for those that do get in close)
Mids:
1 x Large Cap Booster II (even named is good enough as you seldom need it)
1 x X-Large Shield Booster II (although I just use a Meta 4)
2 x Ballistic Hardener II
2 x Explosive Hardener II
Lows:
3 x Gyro II
2 x TE II (1 x TE II and 1 x DCU II if you're worried about not tanking enough)
Drones:
2 x Beserker II
3 x Valkyrie II
4 x Warrior II
Rigs:
1 x Large Core Defense Field Solidifier
1 x Large Core Defense Filed Extender
1 x whatever you want (CCC, Ambit, CDFE, CDFS) I have an anti-EM rig there for the few Angel NPCs (Saint, Malakin) that do EM damage.

Just warp in, and start shooting. The only Angel missions that will require a bit of good aggro control are The Blockade. If you have problems, just remember to kill the scramming frigs first so you can warp out.

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OK get real man. I realize I could be wrong, but if he is flying a Mael to do lvl 4's in and cannot afford a Mach, then he most likely does not have T2 guns, ergo, no Barrage, and no uber range. I realize what AC output looks like in EFT, but real dps is - well, to be cliche - another story.

Bottom line = Cipher is 100% right. But I'm telling you, trying to do Lvl 4's against anything but Angels with AC's on a Mael is a very frustrating way to run missions.

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Originally by: Axel Strom

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Thanks for the input guys. I've picked up some great info here.

Just to clarify a couple of things: my main is Gallente, so I've taken the time to invest in some serious drone skills. At the moment I typically carry 5 Hobgoblin IIs and 5 Hammerhead IIs in my Hyperion, which I find always gives me an option. However, as i'm only just now cross-training over to Minmatar, I cannot use T2 projectiles yet.

I've done the whole Raven thing. A Raven was the first BS I got (And the second and third) but I got very bored of missiles quite quickly.

I certainly see why the consensus is against ACs for the Maelstrom. I have run a few setups through EveHQ now, and I notice that while ACs on the Machariel would get an incredible falloff of around 60km with my skills, the bonuses, and some tracking enhancers (Making them effective anywhere from about 5km to about 65km) a similar setup on a Maelstrom would give an AC falloff of only about 40km. So I will probably go ahead and pack arty, though I'm in the habit of fitting an AB anyway (One of the major drawbacks to shield tanking IMO).

So thanks again for your suggestions, and here's hoping that when I do get the Mach, it turns out to be as much fun as my Cynabal

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Originally by: Axel Strom

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I certainly see why the consensus is against ACs for the Maelstrom.

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Originally by: Bigg Gun

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Edited by: Bigg Gun on 13/09/2010 22:34:55
You don't really need T2 for ACs. Most of the players use T1 close range ammo, since the close range doesn't matter for the falloff.

Barrage does kinetic and explosive, kinetic is the best damage type for probably 70% of eve pve targets. Furthermore if an angel BS is at 80km it's burning for you and fast. Together with it's myriad of lil helpers- cruisers, BC and those pesky angel frigs.

I admit - with ACs in a maelstrom you won't hit anything past the 40-45km zone. With the t1 ammo that is. But inside the 40km zone it will kill most targets and very fast.

Just out of curiosity though - do you know what's the ROF on the 1400mm howitzer with 3 t2 gyros - it's 16.5 seconds. Even if you do 1 hit - 1 BS and start at the 80ish km range(and don't have any glancing hits) you will still have BS orbiting your ass at 4-5km where you can not hit them. That of course will leave all the little sub BS sized enemies to worry about also. You can always put the maelstrom on a course away from the targets and have more time to shoot, but as you said before maelstrom is slow, and besides that would defeat the purpose of using long range guns in the first place.

So basically you have your main weapon - 8 guns hit 3-4 BS out of the whole mission. And kill all else with the 100 MBit drones...


As a comparison the 800mm ACs shoot every 3.25 secs. You can afford to hit even approaching interceptors thus fully utilizing the MAIN weapon of your ship.(and yeah at 20km + you can easily hit the interceptors). The main problem with the AC maelstrom is those 51km orbiting ships, everything else approaches you and if you have the t2 guns you can shoot at 51km. Or carry 3 sentry and hope they make up for your lack of range.

edit.
BTW if you HAVE to shoot at long range for pve at least use 1200s - they're just slightly slower than tachyons at 8.7s rof. When you split them in 2 groups you get a decent ROF with 2x 2300 volleys

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Originally by: Redshift XIII

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Edited by: Redshift XIII on 11/09/2010 22:38:42
Speaking from the exact same experience - I did the Maelstrom while I wait for Mach thing... I can confirm that AC's on a Mael will be very disappointing. It is an arty ship. Even with an AB on it (AC's without AB is soooo fail), you will be banging your head on the wall while you slow boat around trying to kill stuff in AC range (Angels will be the easiest yes - but get a couple Gurista missions in a row and you'll wanna /slit irl).

Maelstrom is an OK ship, and really your best choice while you wait on a Mach... but please, do yourself a favor and put arties on it.

:: EDIT :: On a side note, one thing I remember making my life so much better in a Mael... if you don't already have T2 drones, get them ASAP. And I wouldn't fool with anything other than Hobgob II's

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