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Hurtful Words
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.16 20:03:00 -
[1]
So I was going to buy a new machine, but I'm hoping I can upgrade my current one, just a bit, to squeeze some more life out of it.
Currently:
Dell Vostro 200( har har, I know, but she has treated me well) Intel Pentium DualCore CPU E2160 (1.80GHz, 800 FSB) 2GB DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz, Dual Channel DT 128MB NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS DVI/VGA
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I can run EVE well, as long as graphics are on low. I'm thinking of grabbing 2gigs more Ram and want to slightly upgrade the graphics card just to keep me going for a bit. Anybody have a suggested card that might work for me? (less than $125)
Thanks
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.09.16 20:14:00 -
[2]
yah i think it your graphics card holding you back
i was gonna recommend maybe another in the 8x series like a 8800gt like me. i have had mine years and i expected it to be a bit cheaper than ú150 new now lol (i just checked price)
x
EVE Garden |
Grez
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.16 20:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grez on 16/09/2010 20:24:05 Its just your graphics card holding you back, your processor and memory are enough to play EVE well (although that E2160 is definitely going to show it's age soon).
Get a 5770. They cost about ú100, and can run EVE @ 100+ fps with all settings on high. http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-149-XF
See this thread for a guy that just got one. He mail'd me in-game and told me he was getting 110+ fps in space, all settings high. ---
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.09.16 21:28:00 -
[4]
Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Xrak
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.16 22:18:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
Correction - Anything over 4GB is useless on a 32bit OS.
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Barakkus
Ishukone Institute of Technology
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Posted - 2010.09.16 22:43:00 -
[6]
Problem with upgrading your video card with a Dell is you probably do not have a power supply that's going to supply enough power for a newer card. Dell makes sure their consumer level products have the BARE MINIMUM power output on their power supplies. 99% of the time you will not be able to upgrade your power supply either :(
Get a new machine. You processor is getting to be a dinosaur, you could stand to get some faster ram too, might as well just get a new system, probably would only cost you $700 for something that's twice as powerful as what you have now.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.09.16 22:44:00 -
[7]
You could even make a spare box / server with your spare bits if you went the whole hog.
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Barakkus
Ishukone Institute of Technology
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Posted - 2010.09.16 23:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie You could even make a spare box / server with your spare bits if you went the whole hog.
I get retired dell workstations from work for just that purpose :)
I currently use 1 for a webserver and 1 for a router running server 2003.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.09.16 23:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
Correction - Anything over 4GB is useless on a 32bit OS.
Taken directly from Micro$oft:
"For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements:
ò The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following:
◦Intel 975X ◦Intel P965 ◦Intel 955X on Socket 775 ◦Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU.
ò The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set.
ò The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature.
òAn x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used."
So, once again, if you want to make full use of 4Gb of RAM, you need a 64-bit OS.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
Correction - Anything over 4GB is useless on a 32bit OS.
Taken directly from Micro$oft:
"For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements:
ò The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following:
◦Intel 975X ◦Intel P965 ◦Intel 955X on Socket 775 ◦Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU.
ò The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set.
ò The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature.
òAn x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used."
So, once again, if you want to make full use of 4Gb of RAM, you need a 64-bit OS.
Look up PAE. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Grez
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:25:00 -
[11]
Damnit Blane, beat me to it :(. ---
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Xrak
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
Correction - Anything over 4GB is useless on a 32bit OS.
So, once again, if you want to make full use of 4Gb of RAM, you need a 64-bit OS.
I've bolded the important part. Your first statement is quite untrue, your second one is true, you have said 2 different things.
Saying that 4GB is RAM on a 32bit OS is "useless" is wrong.
In general 32bit Windows (aka without using PAE as it mostly causes driver issues) can address up-to 4GB of memory, This includes all memory in the system from system RAM to Graphics card memory. The end result is that Windows has somewhere between 3-4 GB of RAM available to use. This is definitely a better option than only having 2GB of RAM
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Caleidascope on 17/09/2010 00:58:20
8800GTS for 60 bucks: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BFGS88320GTSOCE-R&cat=VCD
You probably going to need a new power supply like someone said above.
Don't bother with RAM, 2 GB is all you need.
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Xrak
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.17 01:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Xrak on 17/09/2010 01:21:24
Originally by: Caleidascope
Don't bother with RAM, 2 GB is all you need.
I highly doubt that 2GB of RAM is optimal and would recommend that he gets more.
But rather then trusting any of us, arguing between ourselves, have a look for your self.
Play eve as you normally would, with your usual applications open in the background, music player, browser etc. Then have a look at your memory usage in the Task manager, if you are approaching 2GB then you want to get more RAM.
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.09.17 01:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Xrak
Originally by: Ultim8Evil Also worth noting that unless you're running a 64-bit OS, 4Gb of ram is useless.
Correction - Anything over 4GB is useless on a 32bit OS.
So, once again, if you want to make full use of 4Gb of RAM, you need a 64-bit OS.
I've bolded the important part. Your first statement is quite untrue, your second one is true, you have said 2 different things.
Saying that 4GB is RAM on a 32bit OS is "useless" is wrong.
In general 32bit Windows (aka without using PAE as it mostly causes driver issues) can address up-to 4GB of memory, This includes all memory in the system from system RAM to Graphics card memory. The end result is that Windows has somewhere between 3-4 GB of RAM available to use. This is definitely a better option than only having 2GB of RAM
Granted, I could have worded my statement better.
Either way, unless you're using DOS, 16-bit apps or can't get 64-bit hardware drivers, you should make the switch to a 64-bit OS. Especially seeing as you can do it for free.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 01:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 17/09/2010 01:21:24
Originally by: Caleidascope
Don't bother with RAM, 2 GB is all you need.
I highly doubt that 2GB of RAM is optimal and would recommend that he gets more.
But rather then trusting any of us, arguing between ourselves, have a look for your self.
Play eve as you normally would, with your usual applications open in the background, music player, browser etc. Then have a look at your memory usage in the Task manager, if you are approaching 2GB then you want to get more RAM.
I did extensive research about RAM when I built my quad core system. For 32-bit OS, 2 GB is all you need. You can top it off to 4 GB, but OS will only use 3 GB at most.
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Xrak
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.09.17 01:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Caleidascope
I did extensive research about RAM when I built my quad core system. For 32-bit OS, 2 GB is all you need. You can top it off to 4 GB, but OS will only use 3 GB at most.
Erm, did you even both to read this thread? If not try reading my post above talking about RAM and windows addressing. Your assumption that you only need 2GB because you are using a 32bit OS is very wrong. Your memory needs come from how you use the system eg playing a modern game, or having many applications open. Whilst the system may work and run on less than 2 GB of RAM, it will most likely run much much better with more RAM available to use.
When the system runs out of available RAM, it will start to use 'Virtual memory' instead. Virtual memory is simply part of the hard drive that has been set aside for this situation. The problem is that accessing and writing data to the hard drive is many multitudes slower than that of RAM, thus having a massive negative impact on the performance of your PC.
And yes Ultim8Evil, we can both certainly agree that 64bit OS is the way to go :)
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.09.17 02:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 17/09/2010 01:21:24
Originally by: Caleidascope
Don't bother with RAM, 2 GB is all you need.
I highly doubt that 2GB of RAM is optimal and would recommend that he gets more.
But rather then trusting any of us, arguing between ourselves, have a look for your self.
Play eve as you normally would, with your usual applications open in the background, music player, browser etc. Then have a look at your memory usage in the Task manager, if you are approaching 2GB then you want to get more RAM.
I did extensive research about RAM when I built my quad core system. For 32-bit OS, 2 GB is all you need. You can top it off to 4 GB, but OS will only use 3 GB at most.
Well, I am sat here now with half a dozen or so browser tabs running, AVG in the system tray, MSN Messenger and a few laptop specific (fingerprint reader, touchpad driver etc) system tray apps running and I'm using 2.12GB of my 4GB.
Yes, I know Vista 64 has a huge memory footprint, but 2GB is still pretty minimalist.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 02:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Xrak Edited by: Xrak on 17/09/2010 01:21:24
Originally by: Caleidascope
Don't bother with RAM, 2 GB is all you need.
I highly doubt that 2GB of RAM is optimal and would recommend that he gets more.
But rather then trusting any of us, arguing between ourselves, have a look for your self.
Play eve as you normally would, with your usual applications open in the background, music player, browser etc. Then have a look at your memory usage in the Task manager, if you are approaching 2GB then you want to get more RAM.
I did extensive research about RAM when I built my quad core system. For 32-bit OS, 2 GB is all you need. You can top it off to 4 GB, but OS will only use 3 GB at most.
Well, I am sat here now with half a dozen or so browser tabs running, AVG in the system tray, MSN Messenger and a few laptop specific (fingerprint reader, touchpad driver etc) system tray apps running and I'm using 2.12GB of my 4GB.
Yes, I know Vista 64 has a huge memory footprint, but 2GB is still pretty minimalist.
Sorry, did you say Vista?
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.09.17 10:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Caleidascope Sorry, did you say Vista?
Yep. Vista Ultimate 64-bit came with my laptop 2 years ago and I've found no reason (yet) to change it.
I'm waiting for NAND prices to drop a bit more then when I get an SSD, I'll be switching to Win7 for TRIM support.
Until then, Win7 offers me nothing of use.
TBH, if I had my way, I'd still be on Win2K SP4.
If you're reading this, you've read too far and now you're on my sig. Concentrate on what I said before you got to this bit. Ok? |
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Hurtful Words
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 11:15:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hurtful Words on 17/09/2010 11:15:31
Originally by: Barakkus Problem with upgrading your video card with a Dell is you probably do not have a power supply that's going to supply enough power for a newer card. Dell makes sure their consumer level products have the BARE MINIMUM power output on their power supplies. 99% of the time you will not be able to upgrade your power supply either :(
Get a new machine. You processor is getting to be a dinosaur, you could stand to get some faster ram too, might as well just get a new system, probably would only cost you $700 for something that's twice as powerful as what you have now.
Thanks! Now back to the matter at hand. My Power Supply is 300W and is apparently interchangeable with aftermarket parts.
I'm not necessarily looking to get the latest and greatest new card. Just something that's an upgrade over this 128. The idea is that this upgrade bridges me to saving up and getting a more powerful machine down the road.
P.S. - not that it matters, but I run Win XP pro.
thanks!
edit: clarity
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 14:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Caleidascope on 17/09/2010 14:24:49
8800GTS for 60 580W power supply for 15
It is cheap, but it will last you a few years. You will probably reuse them when you build your next system.
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Hurtful Words
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 14:48:00 -
[23]
nVidia GeForce 210 512 MB PCI-Express Video Card
How about this? Only requires my 300W supply, inexpensive, and better.
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 15:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hurtful Words nVidia GeForce 210 512 MB PCI-Express Video Card
How about this? Only requires my 300W supply, inexpensive, and better.
37 bucks at newegg, 27 after rebate. 16 stream processors, that is equivalent to 8400GS. Why are you spending 42 dollars on card that is already in your computer? How is that better?
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Hurtful Words
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 17:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Hurtful Words nVidia GeForce 210 512 MB PCI-Express Video Card
How about this? Only requires my 300W supply, inexpensive, and better.
37 bucks at newegg, 27 after rebate. 16 stream processors, that is equivalent to 8400GS. Why are you spending 42 dollars on card that is already in your computer? How is that better?
Without having to buy a new power unit, it seemed like the specs on this gave a boost for little cost:
My Current Card:
General Features: NVIDIA GeForce 8300GS graphics processing unit (GPU) PCI Express x16 interface 128 MB DDR2 memory 450 MHz core clock 900 MHz shader clock
New Card:
8400GS 512MB DDR2
General Features: NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS graphics processing unit (GPU) 512 MB DDR2 memory 589 MHz core clock 1402 MHz shader clock 800 MHz memory data rate
Sadly, I'm not very technical, so I'm trying to read into stream processors but it's a bit confounding. ($31 to pick up the 8400gs at a store nearby)
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 17:25:00 -
[26]
The way it looks, the 210 is updated 8400. So. Since you do not want to upgrade. Just get the 8400 for about 25 dollars and save 10 dollars over 210, you get same 512 MB of RAM, same DDR2 RAM, very similar clock speeds and you do not need to upgrade your power supply.
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Hurtful Words
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 17:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Caleidascope Edited by: Caleidascope on 17/09/2010 17:32:28 The way it looks, the 210 is updated 8400. So. Since you do not want to upgrade. Just get the 8400 for about 25 dollars (ok, 30+ with shipping) and save 10 dollars over 210, you get same 512 MB of RAM, same DDR2 RAM, very similar clock speeds and you do not need to upgrade your power supply.
Thanks for your help Caleidascope, I owe you some isk.
I'm told I could run this on my power supply: GeForce 9500 GT Video Card - 1024MB DDR2, PCI Express 2.0
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.09.17 18:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hurtful Words
Originally by: Caleidascope Edited by: Caleidascope on 17/09/2010 17:32:28 The way it looks, the 210 is updated 8400. So. Since you do not want to upgrade. Just get the 8400 for about 25 dollars (ok, 30+ with shipping) and save 10 dollars over 210, you get same 512 MB of RAM, same DDR2 RAM, very similar clock speeds and you do not need to upgrade your power supply.
Thanks for your help Caleidascope, I owe you some isk.
I'm told I could run this on my power supply: GeForce 9500 GT Video Card - 1024MB DDR2, PCI Express 2.0
Now you are talking upGRADE! Yes, a 9500 is a step up from 8300/8400.
Also, don't buy from Tiger, they are shady. Did you see how they priced it? 85 for the card, then 20 off, then 25 mail rebate. Look here: Newegg 9500 GT No jacked up prices, no rebates, you just pay 45 bucks plus another 6 for shipping and you are done. It surprises me every time that people still buy from TigerDirect.
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David Grogan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.17 23:28:00 -
[29]
i have an 8400gs 512mb card on one of my pc's and it runs 5 clients on low setting at same time with no problems. just make sure u have a fan attached to the gcard's heatsink SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
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