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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Freezehunter
249
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was in Jita today, and I spent 3 hours on the undock just to confirm something I've noticed since 2007, and what I saw cemented my opinion that PVP in High Sec, and Wardec mechanics in high sec in general are absolutely ********.
Literally all I saw for 3 hours was (except for the traders going in and out):
1) People camping the station entrance and the back of the station with logistics ships and neutral RR. 2) People camping station exit with PVP ships. 3) People undocking, being primaried and getting shot at for 10 seconds and then redocking without even getting 20% into armor. 4) Same **** rinse and repeat for literally HOURS ON END, DAY AFTER DAY, YEAR AFTER YEAR.
When does CCP intend to fix the absolutely pathetic station "PVP" system in this game?
How does CCP justify that stations allow you to dock in them WHEN YOU ARE BEING ACTIVELY SHOT AT?
I know that you are not allowed to dock after shooting someone for a minute, but if you just undock and do nothing, and you have war targets outside the station ACTIVELY ATTACKING YOU, you can just dock up and go AFK/log off no problem without a single risk of loss.
This kind of ******** gameplay mechanic is what allows griefer corps to wardec empire miner corps and corps like Eve Uni.
A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that Icannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game machanic.
If you are under attack, you SHOULD NOT be able to dock, jump, or do anything that implies a session change.
Seriously, imagine a frigate IRL being under fire from another frigate, and then it decides that it should go to a ship yard and close the hangar doors behind it to save its ass. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE???
Can you imagine how many players you lose with ******** gameplay mechanic mishaps like those CCP? Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
164
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Posted - 2012.07.30 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree, minus the rage :) |
El Cid Campeador
Exploding Squirrels
29
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Posted - 2012.07.30 20:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
What you are asking for would cripple small corps. Bigger corps always wardeccing them. They know where the smaller corps mainly stay, sit camp, kill after kill after kill. small corps can only lose from this. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:How does CCP justify that stations allow you to dock in them WHEN YOU ARE BEING ACTIVELY SHOT AT?
The only real question here is, why CCP aloud any one to use/abuse, exploit openly every game mechanic just to pave stupid unbrained risk aversion pussies kill board with station undocking kills?
CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU.
Cry me a river brb |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU.
Cry me a river
Once more, I find myself in agreement with you, Lin. Station camping is an abomination, and station authorities shouldn't stand for it. Sure, everyone entering lowsec is fair game, but what is fair (let alone logical) about station camping? If you are a criminal, you should be shot at on sight by ALL law abiding organisations... even lowsec station authorities.
If CCP must, they could add pirate stations to house and restock pirates... |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
106
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Docking games are the worth things. Highsec wars aren't really wars because of them. Everyone just docks all the time. You can fit a 600k ehp proteus or an ASB rattlesnake, shoot at people, then if you feel threatened you use your neutral RR or wait 60 seconds to dock. It's ********. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU.
Cry me a river Once more, I find myself in agreement with you, Lin. Station camping is an abomination, and station authorities shouldn't stand for it. Sure, everyone entering lowsec is fair game, but what is fair (let alone logical) about station camping? If you are a criminal, you should be shot at on sight by ALL law abiding organisations... even lowsec station authorities. If CCP must, they could add pirate stations to house and restock pirates...
In low sec doesn't matter who's good or almost bad, shoot and station/gate sentry will open fire, and from my point of view those don't hit hard enough
There's nothing fair about gate or station camping is just a matter of knowing game mechanics and exploit them t'ill the last bone to get "kills", because that's what everything is about= "kills" So the day those are kicked from high sec they will cry rivers oceans and entire water planets constellations and galaxies yadayada, then they will cry because gate/station guns harm them too much blahblahblah and then they will complain because they're not safe killing defenceless ships because bubbles, dictors and people actually playing pvp.
That's the real problem of this game. brb |
Garreth Vlox
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
27
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:I was in Jita today, and I spent 3 hours on the undock just to confirm something I've noticed since 2007, and what I saw cemented my opinion that PVP in High Sec, and Wardec mechanics in high sec in general are absolutely ********.
Literally all I saw for 3 hours was (except for the traders going in and out):
1) People camping the station entrance and the back of the station with logistics ships and neutral RR. 2) People camping station exit with PVP ships. 3) People undocking, being primaried and getting shot at for 10 seconds and then redocking without even getting 20% into armor. 4) Same **** rinse and repeat for literally HOURS ON END, DAY AFTER DAY, YEAR AFTER YEAR.
When does CCP intend to fix the absolutely pathetic station "PVP" system in this game?
How does CCP justify that stations allow you to dock in them WHEN YOU ARE BEING ACTIVELY SHOT AT?
I know that you are not allowed to dock after shooting someone for a minute, but if you just undock and do nothing, and you have war targets outside the station ACTIVELY ATTACKING YOU, you can just dock up and go AFK/log off no problem without a single risk of loss.
This kind of ******** gameplay mechanic is what allows griefer corps to wardec empire miner corps and corps like Eve Uni.
A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that I cannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game mechanic.
If you are under attack, you SHOULD NOT be able to dock, jump, or do anything that implies a session change.
Seriously, imagine a frigate IRL being under fire from another frigate, and then it decides that it should go to a ship yard and close the hangar doors behind it to save its ass. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE???
Can you imagine how many players you lose with ******** gameplay mechanic mishaps like those CCP?
Not to mention that it's bad for the economy, because WAY fewer ships are blowing up.
In 0.0 it is just as stupid, but not as prevalent because you don't have a station in almost every system where you can run off like a *** to.
Take out all of the rage, and hes got a point, unfortunately its the same one that has been made for the last 5+ years and CCP still doesn't give a **** and we all know what that means...
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Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:That's the real problem of this game.
Yea, well, that was a quick discussion then.^^ |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1513
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU.
lmao EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
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Freezehunter
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
To clarify: I am not complaining about station camping, I am complaining that assholes can abuse this mechanic and wardec people just to go kill them while they are mining or doing missions, and when those people decide to strike back, said ******* just plays undock games with ZERO risk. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU. lmao
I know right? This quoted statement is so full of stupid it's funny. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:To clarify: I am not complaining about station camping, I am complaining that assholes can abuse this mechanic and wardec people just to go kill them while they are mining or doing missions, and when those people decide to strike back, said ******* just plays undock games with ZERO risk.
Same problem, the other way around - same solution. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
563
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU. lmao I know right? This quoted statement is so full of stupid it's funny.
I'm sure you enjoy your Concord protection and don't even imagine the possibility of neutrals kicking your arse just because you undocked.
You're one of those elite pvp dudes right? -I'm laughing at you, and hard.
brb |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
863
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.
For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!
Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2055
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Neutral RR is due to be nerfed in CrimeWatch. With all neutral assistance going suspect and being a valid target to the whole world AND not being able to instantly dock, we're going to see most of the station wh*res forced to radically change their play style. They'll lose the feeling of invulnerability and be a lot less likely to aggress outside jita when it's possible for an enemy to show up with a dozen tornadoes and demolish all of their logis before their aggression timers expire.
Posting in a stealth "my wartargets keep docking up and I don't like it" thread. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1514
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU. lmao I know right? This quoted statement is so full of stupid it's funny. I'm sure you enjoy your Concord protection and don't even imagine the possibility of neutrals kicking your arse just because you undocked. You're one of those elite pvp dudes right? -I'm laughing at you, and hard.
yeah i definitely enjoy my concord protection when i'm -10 EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:CCP should by now be able to state, despite your crocodile tears, whenever you commit a single empire crime you should be kicked in to low then null and never be able to come back, just enough years so you understand actions have consequences and you either take responsibilities or you just go play wow and STFU. lmao I know right? This quoted statement is so full of stupid it's funny. I'm sure you enjoy your Concord protection and don't even imagine the possibility of neutrals kicking your arse just because you undocked. You're one of those elite pvp dudes right? -I'm laughing at you, and hard.
Concord offers no protection. NPC faction police do, to a certain extent.
If you get your facts wrong, how can your opinion be valid? |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:yeah i definitely enjoy my concord protection when i'm -10
Oh come on Palpatine, loosen up alittle... you Goons are all the same.^^ |
Jaison Savrin
Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Station docking games are quite possibly the most annoying thing in the world. I do think it would be appropriate to do something about them. I don't know about making it impossible to go into a station if you're under attack. Maybe making it so you can't re-dock with the station you were attacked at? At least that provides some means of escape and if your attackers aren't smart enough to tackle you quickly then you deserve the escape. Then again that is what safe spots are for too. I don't have a solution but I think a solution should be found and implemented. I'll stop rambling now.
Edited for poor phrasing |
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Freezehunter
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
El Cid Campeador wrote:What you are asking for would cripple small corps. Bigger corps always wardeccing them. They know where the smaller corps mainly stay, sit camp, kill after kill after kill. small corps can only lose from this.
If by small corps you mean one ******* and his 5 alts making his griefing corp just to wardec people because he is being paid to do so, then good.
If you ask me, corps that have under 10 members should be automatically disbanded after a few months to avoid the creation of such corps. Also, the character that started said corp should be put on a 1-6 month "new corporation creation" cooldown. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8819
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 20:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:The only real question here is, why CCP aloud any one to use/abuse, exploit openly every game mechanic just to pave stupid unbrained risk aversion pussies kill board with station undocking kills?
What does this even mean?! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Stations should blast you to hell when you fire up your guns nearby. Your silly private war shouldn't matter to them.
That would be the logical thing to do. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.
For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!
Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door.
You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off. |
Freezehunter
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.
For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!
Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door. You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off.
If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place.
Should be the same in Eve. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
864
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.
For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!
Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door. You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off. If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place. Should be the same in Eve.
You miss my point. Then they would not undock, they would not even log in. Why would that be an improvement?
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.
For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!
Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.
P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door. You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off. If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place. Should be the same in Eve.
I think the real issue at hand is giving the guy who undocks an alternative to spawning right on top of his would-be aggressor.
If you are given options, then you can say that undocking should be the equivalent of jumping through a stargate. It is actually more dangerous for a covert ship to undock than to jump through a gate because the aggressor knows where your ship spawns.
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El Cid Campeador
Exploding Squirrels
31
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:El Cid Campeador wrote:What you are asking for would cripple small corps. Bigger corps always wardeccing them. They know where the smaller corps mainly stay, sit camp, kill after kill after kill. small corps can only lose from this. If by small corps you mean one ******* and his 5 alts making his griefing corp just to wardec people because he is being paid to do so, then good. If you ask me, corps that have under 10 members should be automatically disbanded after a week or two to avoid the creation of such corps. Also, the character that started said corp should be put on a 1-6 month "new corporation creation" cooldown. If you don't get enough members to make a proper corp within the first 1-4 weeks, then it should just die. We have way too many 1-5-10 man corps in this game whose only purpose is tax evasion and griefing war decs.
By smaller corps I mean, corps being led by a few experienced pilots, but teaching a bunch of nubs (like me). being forced to fight corps who can field an equal number of ships (but obviously more experienced) would cripple us. Like people have mentioned, people camping near stations shouldn't even be allowed at all (getting shot by concord, or station defenses). Gets rid of the docking/undocking problem altogether. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that I cannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game mechanic. Sounds like the merc did a damn good job and the guy who hired him got his money's worth.
What's his name, I might hire him just for the lols. |
Freezehunter
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:Freezehunter wrote:A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that I cannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game mechanic. Sounds like the merc did a damn good job and the guy who hired him got his money's worth. What's his name, I might hire him just for the lols.
Not really, he explicitly told me that he was getting paid if he got kills, which he didn't because he sucked ass and could never break my tank.
His only way of killing me would have been catching me in a hauler or mission ship, which he did not.
What really pisses me off about this game sometimes is that this form of obvious targeted griefing / harassment is totally supported by the game rules (I petitioned for harassment but was basically told to HTFU), but if you call someone a ****** you get banned for 2 weeks.
We either HTFU on all fronts of stop being hypocrites, YES CCP?
Double standards as always. Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
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