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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 08:15:00 -
[31]
Good guys use sniper rifles?
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Cupio Mortem
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Posted - 2010.09.23 08:16:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mag's Good guys use sniper rifles?
Bad guys sneak up and use knives.
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Jenny Hawk
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.09.23 09:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Codo Yagari A part of me actually believed that CCP had intention of keeping EVE a realistic and fairly balanced game, where you can actually chose to be a good or bad guy.
You were wrong.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Codo Yagari A part of me actually believed that CCP had intention of keeping EVE a realistic and fairly balanced game, where you can actually chose to be a good or bad guy.
I agree with the OP but for slightly different reasons.
Something lacking here is the definition of a good or bad person. Many 'good' people wouldn't steal from their corp yet have run a Jita scam alt for a few months or participated in suicide ganking. Does this make them 'bad' people?
To me these moral gray areas are one of the most interesting aspects of eve. What would make it even more interesting would be the ability to hold people accountable for their actions.
If eve is to be "a realistic and fairly balanced game" then we need to get rid of anonymity, people who perform these scams can rarely be traced back to their main account. If we are to permit scamming as a game mechanic then it should also be possible war dec the little prick and repeatedly pod them till they cry sweet tears and ragequit.
There are already a considerable number of checks and balances in place like locking blueprints, contracts, wallet auditing, sec status and others. This means street wise people rarely get scammed but you do need to keep your wits about you. Scammers on the other hand simply hide behind an alt or sell their toon.
Such anonymity is what makes scammers the real carebears, it is possibly the safest and most risk averse profession in eve (With some exceptions, there are a minority of scams that require initial investment and risk, most however simply involve creating an alt then spamming Jita local or infiltrating a corp).
In practical terms I'm not sure how possible it would be to make scams accountable but it would sure as hell be fun _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Spurty
Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:17:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Spurty on 23/09/2010 12:18:20 are You doing something solo?
are you playing an MMO?
are teams of players whupping. your bottom?
design flaw in game or intelligent design?
Yelp!
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Grr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.09.23 12:29:00 -
[36]
I'll be honest Codo I love eve exactly the way it is; a cold and harsh universe full of uncaring people who will screw you over the first chance they get.
Enforcing NRDS, preaching morals and playing it the way you and I do is simply hard mode and I'll get more satisfaction from doing that than the easy option of being a pirate/scammer/griefer etc. You'll also earn more respect for it from the people that matter.
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.09.23 14:25:00 -
[37]
o7 Admiral Grr, long time no see. I sincerely hope all is well.
On a side note, I want to extend a warning to the people that think their actions will go unpunished: I can guarantee you that if you chose and walk a malicious and completely heartless path, you WILL pay for it, and it wont be cheap. Do you really think that all those people you hurt does not deserve retribution and justification? Do you really think the universe is without order, and will allow those such as yourself to continue to inflict pain to others for all eternity? The universe is kept beautiful, because when things go to far out of hand, the ugliness is disposed of. Your behaviour is not beautiful.
Come back to the right side of things before it is too late. ___________________
Yulai Guard Forum |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 14:48:00 -
[38]
The only tool I'd like for the good guys is removal of anonymity. Make it that everyone could see what alts the player has. And if the player use fake names, proxys to bypass it, ban them.
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Drone 613
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:04:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Drone 613 on 23/09/2010 15:10:44 Edited by: Drone 613 on 23/09/2010 15:08:39 In regards to the trailers, I think you're suffering from excessively short term memory. Most of the CCP trailers I've seen are about emphasizing freedom of choice or epic space battles. The latest one is the polar opposite of the "Butterfly effect" trailer that pointed out the rewards of being the "good guy."
For your other points you seem to be forgetting the one great fundamental truth of EVE Online: its a PvP game. Sure that's obvious from the perspective of ship to ship combat, but it also plays out in every part of the game. That's the game you chose to subscribe to and play. You willing put yourself in that environment. Complaining about that environment, trying to change it because you feel disadvantaged is both weakness on your part and selfish.
EVE Online is exactly what it was when you signed up, stop whining.
As for CCP's stance on it: they been fairly consitent. EVE is a big sandbox, you get out of if what you want. They have all the tools in place to be whatever you want. Spy, Corp destroyer, pirate hunter, mission runner, and so on. Sure the big heists get the attention on the web, in magazines, and community; that's just human nature. It plays out daily in the news, celebrity gossip columns, and so on. The good deeds are over looked because a: most of them while nice are minor and insignificant, b: lack any interesting components or story, and c: can be accomplished in 99% of the games out there that have artificial nanny controls in place to prevent any real interplayer interaction and those same limits are often twisted to or result in more grieving and bad behaviors because the participants in those games realize there'll be no reprisal for their bad behavior; something that isn't the case in EVE.
At least in EVE you can get even if you try. Most people, however; find it far easier to whine, cry, kick up their feet at how "unfair" it is and ask for for artificial resolutions / restrictions to be put in place which would make this game just like other and would take away the very freedom that drew those same players to the game in the first place. It's like peope who don't like a political climate where they live so they move, but wherever they move to the vote the same way they did in the last place, elect the same types of people, then complain about how much the new place now sucks and move again thus starting the process anew.
Chances are, as CCP will tell you, all those cool stories of freedom are what draw evil mean players and good players alike. So they give you the freedom of choice and expect you to live with the consequences of those choices. Now quit your crying and play.
Edited for spelling
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:29:00 -
[40]
Oh ffs why don't you complain about all the Amarr names while you are about it starting with the Inquistor.
Inquisitors did some pretty vile sh.t back in the days as well!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:38:00 -
[41]
HTFU or GTFO !
That is all!
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:42:00 -
[42]
In EVE, there is no good or evil...only what you will do and what you will not do, the choice is your's as is the responsibility for that choice.
Syn Callibri Director Fleet Ops, 21st Eridani Lighthorse Keeper of the Blood Pact
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Gashblight
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:49:00 -
[43]
One player having the power to ruin the game play for hundreds of people is bad enough without it being condoned; or worse, promoted by the games developer. This attitude insures Eve will remain a backwater/fringe MMO.
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King Pleasure
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Posted - 2010.09.23 15:54:00 -
[44]
Edited by: King Pleasure on 23/09/2010 15:54:56
Originally by: Codo Yagari
On a side note, I want to extend a warning to the people that think their actions will go unpunished: I can guarantee you that if you chose and walk a malicious and completely heartless path, you WILL pay for it, and it wont be cheap. Do you really think that all those people you hurt does not deserve retribution and justification? Do you really think the universe is without order, and will allow those such as yourself to continue to inflict pain to others for all eternity? The universe is kept beautiful, because when things go to far out of hand, the ugliness is disposed of. Your behaviour is not beautiful.
Come back to the right side of things before it is too late.
I heard somewhere that EveUni is having a competition at the moment for people posting good guides. You should really write a guide to how to go from whiner to crazy person in one post. You're clearly very good at it.
**spelling mistake.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom In EVE the weak are culled and only the smart/strong survive.
The problem there is that trusting or caring about others is only seen as weakness to psychopaths. Which is the kind of 'survival of the fittest' EVE seems to encourage.
In the wild, where natural selection actually occurs, you don't see animals pretending to be friends in order to kill eachother. It's a uniquely human evil, and has nothing to do with how strong you are or darwinism at all.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom In EVE the weak are culled and only the smart/strong survive.
The problem there is that trusting or caring about others is only seen as weakness to psychopaths. Which is the kind of 'survival of the fittest' EVE seems to encourage.
In the wild, where natural selection actually occurs, you don't see animals pretending to be friends in order to kill eachother. It's a uniquely human evil, and has nothing to do with how strong you are or darwinism at all.
If being an ******* makes you richer then natural selection will pick up on it.
In other news: People under 21 are 17% more likely to be an *******.
There's no problem, anti-social behavior is rare because humans are social creatures we benefit from social interaction more than we would benefit from being *******s to each other.
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:20:00 -
[47]
OK, maybe I was a bit harsh.. so here.. I'll give you what you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMiwVR2Ubk0
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom In EVE the weak are culled and only the smart/strong survive.
The problem there is that trusting or caring about others is only seen as weakness to psychopaths. Which is the kind of 'survival of the fittest' EVE seems to encourage.
In the wild, where natural selection actually occurs, you don't see animals pretending to be friends in order to kill eachother. It's a uniquely human evil, and has nothing to do with how strong you are or darwinism at all.
If being an ******* makes you richer then natural selection will pick up on it.
In other news: People under 21 are 17% more likely to be an *******.
There's no problem, anti-social behavior is rare because humans are social creatures we benefit from social interaction more than we would benefit from being *******s to each other.
True, but in the real world you'll gain no respect from society for having anti-social personality traits, whereas in EVE it's celebrated.
I'm not saying those people have no place in the game at all, just agreeing with the OP that it's a bit over-represented.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ira Theos
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:27:00 -
[49]
Well perhaps this explains it a bit better....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNwC0qzxa4&feature=related
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:33:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ira Theos Well perhaps this explains it a bit better....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNwC0qzxa4&feature=related
Prefer this myself.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
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Adyny Rieph
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:44:00 -
[51]
I think this is a case of the OP viewing the trailer from a different perspective than I did. What I saw was a good guy getting blown up for no reason and taking his revenge on the bad guys, making and manipulating friends along the way to achieve the desired result. Nothing wrong with that.
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Kuar Z'thain
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.23 16:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gashblight One player having the power to ruin the game play for hundreds of people is bad enough without it being condoned; or worse, promoted by the games developer. This attitude insures Eve will remain a backwater/fringe MMO.
Good.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.23 17:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Codo Yagari In my opinion, scamming, theft, etc etc is already VERY commonplace in EVE, and these things should be limited. But the latest trailer now shows CCP clearly ENCOURAGING malicious and below the belt behaviour. Have you no respect for what some of us has spend so long time to build? Dont mistake yourself to think that just because this is a game moral laws no longer apply.
Major heists occur maybe, twice, three times a year. This is... too much?
Originally by: Codo Yagari Also, if you put together the two names of the latest ship additions, the Primae and the Noctis, you get Primae Noctis, a medieval right where the lord of the manor had the right to the marriage bed on the first night of a serf or peasant's marriage. A clearly disgusting and heartless thing (remember the movie Braveheart).
Eve also contains ships named Vulture, and Stabber. Put 'em together and you get Vulture Stabber.
Oh no, call the SPCA.
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.23 17:39:00 -
[54]
I agree that petty scamming and spamming is way too abundant in Eve, but it's just an immersion breaking annoyance (loljita). Epic heists are cool, but please someone do something about the spam. |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.09.23 17:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 23/09/2010 16:28:35
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom In EVE the weak are culled and only the smart/strong survive.
The problem there is that trusting or caring about others is only seen as weakness to psychopaths. Which is the kind of 'survival of the fittest' EVE seems to encourage.
In the wild, where natural selection actually occurs, you don't see animals pretending to be friends in order to kill eachother. It's a uniquely human evil, and has nothing to do with how strong you are or darwinism at all.
If being an ******* makes you richer then natural selection will pick up on it.
In other news: People under 21 are 17% more likely to be an *******.
There's no problem, anti-social behavior is rare because humans are social creatures we benefit from social interaction more than we would benefit from being *******s to each other.
True, but in the real world you'll gain no respect from society for having anti-social personality traits, whereas in EVE it's celebrated.
And I'm not saying those people have no place in the game at all, just agreeing with the OP that it's a bit over-represented and encouraged by game mechanics. There should at least be some small attempt at bringing a conflict between good and evil into play, instead of just letting evil run rampant and telling the victims to either get used to being destroyed or quit.
It depends. You might get respect in some circles. Just like it is in EVE. When some huge heist happens people divide, some are appalled the others are excited. |
Ejit
Amarr The Ascension
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Posted - 2010.09.23 19:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Codo Yagari Also, if you put together the two names of the latest ship additions, the Primae and the Noctis, you get Primae Noctis, a medieval right where the lord of the manor had the right to the marriage bed on the first night of a serf or peasant's marriage. A clearly disgusting and heartless thing (remember the movie Braveheart).
This is also a right under feudal law the Seigneur of Sark, in the Channel Islands had until recently
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Codo Yagari
Yulai Guard
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Posted - 2010.09.23 21:07:00 -
[57]
In the world of man, Darwins thesis still apply; the survival of the fittest.
On a human level, the fittest can be interpetated as the most good or virtuous, not the one with the greatest potential to overthrow the person next to him.
As humans, we have an opportunity to chose between the attitudes of "I care" or "I dont care".
To be completely honest, from the way I see things, it's just about chosing to act in an adult fashion; or not. ___________________
Yulai Guard Forum |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Codo Yagari In the world of man, Darwins thesis still apply; the survival of the fittest.
On a human level, the fittest can be interpetated as the most good or virtuous, not the one with the greatest potential to overthrow the person next to him.
As humans, we have an opportunity to chose between the attitudes of "I care" or "I dont care".
To be completely honest, from the way I see things, it's just about chosing to act in an adult fashion; or not.
Read up on you guys and I like what you guys stand for.Give em hell
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:53:00 -
[59]
CCP has finally realized that there is a huge demographic of MMO players that are complete douche bags and have been banned from every other MMO out there.
Their little movie is specifically designed to attract these players.
No, Coda, this is not a game for good guys. It's ****wad online.
Mr Epeen
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Amarok Tonrar
Dark Shadow Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.24 17:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Codo Yagari Blah blah blah, wine cry, blah blah blah
Life is harsh. Eve is harsh. For once, somebody actually made a game thats a little more realistic than "you can't touch me because I'm not flagged for PvP and if you do, the devs will protect me."
I enjoy all aspects of Eve. I pvp. I run missions. I build stuff. But the fact that I could lose it all in an instant because of my own faults, pure awesomeness. And believe me, if you get robbed in the game, it IS due to your own mistakes. I've played this game for roughly 3 years now and not once have I ever been scammed, or robbed of anything that I couldn't easily replace. Yes, I've lost ships via gankers. But then, I was the one who chose to undock in that ship. Sure, I get upset or angry when bad stuff happens, but then you also can't beat the feeling you get coming out of a fight in one piece, or escaping that nasty gate camp, knowing you could've lost it all.
So Eve is like a casino. YOU choose to step into the casino (or log on), YOU are taking the risk of losing all your earnings. You could just sit all by your lonesome in the parking lot, but where's the fun in that? I mean, if it upsets you that much, then just don't play! Simple as that! But yet you still come back...so obviously they still got something right, even for you.
So yes, there are scammers and thiefs in Eve, However, there are far more people that don't scam or steal. You just don't hear about them much because... well, who's gonna do a news column on "Johnny ran 10 missions today and netted 200mil!" I mean seriously, I think CCP has presented more positive aspects via their 30 some odd vids than any other source. Yet your dogging them for the ONE video they made highlighting the dark side of Eve.
Seriously. Quit your crying and be an adult.
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