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Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
35
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Posted - 2012.08.03 14:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
this is not a nerf local thread. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
476
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Posted - 2012.08.03 15:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself. This alt actually has decent combat experience.
I am the guy flying that logi keeping the other ships alive. I am the guy in a cloaked scout warning and advising my fleet on enemy presence. I am the support guy.
It says more about the limits to your own experience that you seem to assume PvP cannot exist without more kill mails and losses. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
476
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Posted - 2012.08.03 15:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bender 01000010 wrote:this is not a nerf local thread. Of course not.
Local becomes a factor because your idea affects it to a degree, however.
I still maintain that such an upgrade needs to be vulnerable.
It can have the function of an alarm, but like many alarms, must be possible to silence by invaders.
The local residents still get their warning, in any case. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
307
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Posted - 2012.08.04 04:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself.
I will stop you right there, Nikk makes some very good points, you also seemed to ignore one of the points of my post in order to make it so you don't sound completely ignorant. He flies logistics and covops scouts. I can imagine that his scanning skills are pretty decent too. In my experience people who are scouts and logi have a greater understanding of the basics of pvp and the process of engagement than most. As scouts they literately are the ones finding the enemy fleets and tracking them, and as logi they have to understand the flow of combat to anticipate what will be coming next. Strange how both of these roles if done properly will never produce Killmails for that specific pilot.
So your FACT is just a poorly based assumption. So with that established I will consider your remarks a personal attack, with a poorly masked excuse as to why you cannot think outside the realm of your own understanding.
Looking at your own killboard, all I can see is FW ganks with laughably one sided engagements, but I will commend you for at least living in lowsec. I don't see how your experience even gives you the perspective required to judge how Sov local should operate.
I support the OP because as a scout myself I think it'll bring a good deal more difficulty to the scouting proffession and actually require anyone in the scouting role to think, rather than park and look at local. Scouting needs to be better than it is now, and the OP is something that would make this happen. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
35
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Posted - 2012.08.04 13:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nikk please stop posting, until you came with some veritable arguments and opinions. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
36
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Some interesting idea's here,
I would imagine that thes beacons are destructable and unable to be anchored near POS's. This way small gangs can move in and wreck havoc on local intel networks.
The range on the beacons is short, 3-4 AU so blind spots would be more obvious. Also I would say that if someone is not detectable (cloaked) they wouldn't show up on the network.
That is all.
I don't agree with what I underlined and bolded in your comment.. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
479
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bender 01000010 wrote:- you could scan with your covert ops frigate for some blind spots in a solar system, where you can warp in that area and disappear from local, because the local subspace beacon don't have coverage in certain areas (like behind planets, certain space clouds, etc).
- Black Ops ship will have the native ability to see the coverage of the local chat beacons on map and be able to warp to blind spots in order to disappear from local chat for some serious guerrilla action. Kudos to throwing BLOPS a bone, they obviously are missing something to justify their costs and risks properly. Not sure this is it, but anything that tries to solve the issue at least points out it exists too.
The first part, above. Reverse engineering the details, I am trying to figure out how the scanning ship actually sees blind spots. At a guess, I am thinking if they launch their own probes, they can pick up the presence of these objects. Now, at that point they can either cross reference the coverage area and see what is not covered, or see the energy output and achieve the same result.
What limit would you use to inspire these blind spots? ISK cost is probably the worst, as wealthy alliances have proven money is no object to them already. This leaves, perhaps, the idea that they interfere with each other, and cannot overlap coverage as a result. Possibly a fixed number may be used per system, perhaps tied into an upgrade level. Based on that, SOV holders would need to prioritize the placement in system to make sure important areas were covered first. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
521
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself. This alt actually has decent combat experience. I am the guy flying that logi keeping the other ships alive. I am the guy in a cloaked scout warning and advising my fleet on enemy presence. I am the support guy. It says more about the limits to your own experience that you seem to assume PvP cannot exist without more kill mails and losses.
Ah I see at first you didn't want to discuss what combat experience you had. Nor did you want to post with your main. You just wanted us to believe that some other character had all this pvp experience. Ok right not the first.
But now all of a sudden you are the logi pilot and you have "decent combat experience" with this character. Except when we look at your killboard we see you never lost a ship with a remote repper fit to it. Hmm.
I guess all your "combat experience" is being a cloaky scout for your carebear buddies. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
521
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself. I will stop you right there, Nikk makes some very good points, you also seemed to ignore one of the points of my post in order to make it so you don't sound completely ignorant. He flies logistics and covops scouts. I can imagine that his scanning skills are pretty decent too....
Yeah we may need to "imagine" quite a bit about his pvp. He claims he gets allot of combat experience as a logistics pilot. In my experience logistics are called primary quite quickly. Yet he never lost a ship with a repper fit to it.
As for skipping arguments I pretty much addressed everything you said and now you just sort of drop that. I don't blame you, because the arguments you made were bad.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
479
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 15:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
The few months I spent in a wormhole made it plain to me that Local Chat is not the limit to how different that part of the game is.
The OP's idea may be workable, but I need clarification on details.
How does a covops or other scanning pilot locate the safe spots you described? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
37
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Posted - 2012.08.17 14:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:The few months I spent in a wormhole made it plain to me that Local Chat is not the limit to how different that part of the game is.
The OP's idea may be workable, but I need clarification on details.
How does a covops or other scanning pilot locate the safe spots you described?
hmm.. first you scan it and see where is no coverage from the local chat beacons; then,let's say you send some kind of probe, launched from your probe launcher, you position it where is the blind spot, and you warp at the probe..there i fixed it. |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
156
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Posted - 2012.08.17 17:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think this is a good idea.
When I finally started doing solo roams, I used local chat all the time, and when I saw people in local, I was very nervous. I have learned that when people are in local it means almost nothing unless they are also on scan or on grid. It was amazing to me how much I DIDNT rely on local for good intel after that. The exception being for local spikes (goes from 2 to 20) and then I know to GTFO...but if not for local, I would see a mess of ships on scan before they landed anyway...
So I see no problem with removing the local channel and replacing it with a voluntary SOV upgrade instead. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote:I have learned that when people are in local it means almost nothing unless they are also on scan or on grid. It was amazing to me how much I DIDNT rely on local for good intel after that. The exception being for local spikes (goes from 2 to 20) and then I know to GTFO...but if not for local, I would see a mess of ships on scan before they landed anyway... By relying on real intel, you have an advantage over every pilot who relies on Local Chat alone.
I wish more people would wake up to what intel can actually do for them, like that. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Makalie
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.08.17 18:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'm really digging the idea of being able to hack a beacon for Local intel. It just screams CovOps. Almost as if the ships had something they were designed to do! |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
37
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Posted - 2012.08.28 13:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
bump |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
15
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Posted - 2012.08.29 09:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
As for wormholes, and their low PVP per player ratio. It is explained easily: if you jump into some WH and dont find a good fight there - you cannot just jump to the next one. You need to scan, and most times - scan a lot. It drives most people bored, and they give up.
I support the general idea of nerfing local. But not in the form of suggested in OP. Could be just a beacon that enables local chat a) for sov. holder only (and optionally, for their blues), or b) for everyone. As for me, I'd prefer the former. But the latter is more fail-safe solution. It retains status quo for most of the systems of interest, but creates areas for such experimental PVP. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 14:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Local in it's current form lowers the bar too much, in my opinion.
It also creates false impressions, and generally misleading intel.
If you want to make local intel something sov based, that at least places a burden of effort somewhere. This idea the OP has at least respects that intel is valuable, not something free.
Seriously, if EVE PvP is not requiring effort, we might as well play "Team Halo Fortress" instead.
I could even see local in non sov systems being delayed, and just give you a count of total ships in system. No clue who is good or bad, just that they are there somewhere. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
37
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Posted - 2012.09.05 04:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
bumrp |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
39
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Posted - 2012.09.14 11:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
burp |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
566
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Posted - 2012.09.14 17:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bender 01000010 wrote:burp I support this belch.
The OP idea is worth a second look too. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
40
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Posted - 2012.09.26 04:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
BUMP! |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
40
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Posted - 2012.10.09 06:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
burp |
Bender 01000010
EVE-RO Fidelas Constans
47
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Posted - 2012.10.25 08:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
bump |
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