Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sam Seama
Fates Unwritten Consortium SQUEE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was thinking the other day (what, thinking? are you still alive?) at the idea that I might waste 30 days on training for a ship that I might end up not liking. An a got an idea, what if for a fee, let's say a PLEX, you can roll back 30 days worth of skill, so I pay a PLEX and unlearn all the skills in the last 30 days, but I get the skill-points to spend on other shills. Example: I train for a hound and I don't like it, not my style to stay stealthy and do nothing, now I just wastwd time getting into something I end up not liking, so I rollback skills and get T2 guns on a tornado for example and I like the better dps on my tornado than the stealthy advantage of a hound. Think about it, people have more reasons to buy more PLEX thus you, the CCP ends up making more money. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
135
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
People who have more money in real life would have an advantage. The idea of skilling in eve now, is that you evolve and learn from your mistakes, exactly like everyone else did. You cannot 'buy' your way to perfection.
Some people would quit the game over this, so CCP might make less money. |
Annunaki soldier
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:People who have more money in real life would have an advantage. The idea of skilling in eve now, is that you evolve and learn from your mistakes, exactly like everyone else did. You cannot 'buy' your way to perfection.
Some people would quit the game over this, so CCP might make less money.
People that have more money in real life already have an advantage to everything. Want a pvp scenario ? He can afford to buy and fly an offgrid booster alt. He can also aford to plex himself a tengu instead of a drake. Or a market char or a indy. There is a saying at my country that if i translate it it will go like "Money always tend to go to money" meaning that the person that already got some has more opportunities to make em even more. That also apply to eve .
As for ccp i see it gaining more money. The plex movement will go up people will buy for real money and from market with isk Both game user categories will take em out of the game by using em so in the end you will have even more subs or plex for isk that will be bought cause they will be value for more
I dont see this as a bad idea but it need a lot of work to make it viable . Old users that have made the mistakes will also have the experience from it and will benefit also same as new players |
Sam Seama
Fates Unwritten Consortium SQUEE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Than, why not use a PLEX do delete certain skills and getting the SP out of them. With one plex you would be able to recover between 1 and 1.2 million SP. |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
84
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
EVE has always been about making choices and living with the consequences. You want to spend a month training on something? Then do it. You don't like it afterwards? Tough cookies. CCP's only ever refunded SP when they've decided to take skills out of the game. They don't allow 'respecs' or do-overs. I, for one, like that. The notion that someone could spend a month training down a path only to pay a few $$ to undo it, to me, is a bit cheap.
Likewise, something like this would do nothing for the older playerbase. A window of 30-days? Most of the old skills I 'don't like or need' are well outside of that. What I train up now is exactly what I know I want/need.
So, to summarize: System gives edge to younger players System gives edge to people with more RL cash System rewards, or undoes, poor choices because "reset" buttons are cool in EVE.
Consensus: Do not like. |
Sam Seama
Fates Unwritten Consortium SQUEE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ok than a way for new players to get to try everything or to get in pace with the older players faster? |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Out of fear of being elitist...
I've been working on getting where I'm at since 2005. Why should someone who joined in 2012 be brought up to my level without having to go through that same investment cycle? CCP already gave them Neural remaps to streamline training, something that was unavailable for most of my own. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
596
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sam Seama wrote:Ok than a way for new players to get to try everything or to get in pace with the older players faster?
These things just never work out that way. New players might have some willingness to drop cash for PLEX and remap here and there, but honestly it's the older players who have the ISK to do this without spending RL money.
Anyhow, I really don't much see the point. I have plenty of less-used skills on my skill sheet, but I don't think any of them are entirely unused (except Survey, though I've recently decided changing that might be a good idea after all). And honestly, I don't think I would have or could have identified a skill I just trained as relatively useless within the proposed 30 day window. Knowing what I know now, sure, I could probably do without any PI skills at all and way fewer mining skills. But that was all done years ago, and I used them all for more than 30 days after completion. |
Sam Seama
Fates Unwritten Consortium SQUEE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
The idea is that I am a new player and I am afraid to get into any serious ship because I might not like it, is there a way to test a ship before getting into it? |
Tasiv Deka
Ganked And T Bagged
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sam Seama wrote:The idea is that I am a new player and I am afraid to get into any serious ship because I might not like it, is there a way to test a ship before getting into it?
Not really, while it would be cool if the test server allowed you to just move skill points around there should be no way what so ever to do it on the main game.
My TLDRs are usually still pretty long... so buck up and read it because usually when someone talks that much theyre either a politician or they have something important to say... sometimes both... but not usually |
|
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
136
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Here is how the exploits would work:
You would train a character up to 30 million SP or so. Then you would be able to focus your SP into almost any ship in the game. A corp effort could create a perfect skilled Logi/Zealot fleet, Logi/Tornado fleet, etc. A group of 18 month old toons could effectivly be more elite than a group of 6 year old toons. Imagine how frustrating that would be for the long time subscriber.
You would stop training a main at 30 million and start training a second alt on the same account. The market would soon be flooded with alts for sale. The value of a 5 year old account would be worthless, or at best, same as a 2 year old account.
At some point you could buy a character cheaper than if you payed for a subscription. Multiple subscriptions would decline. People with 4 accounts would only need 2 accounts. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
774
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sam Seama wrote:Ok than a way for new players to get to try everything or to get in pace with the older players faster?
No, why? A new player is training skills at exactly the same rate as an 8 year veteran was when they were new. (Not exactly true, with the attribute changes in Apocrypha and later Incarna you are actually training faster.) Your problem is that you want to have the same skills as a 2 year old character now. This doesn't make a bit of sense. You will have the same skills as a two year character has when your character is two years old too.
Sam Seama wrote:The idea is that I am a new player and I am afraid to get into any serious ship because I might not like it, is there a way to test a ship before getting into it?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Singularity |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
426
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 00:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
NO |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sam Seama wrote:Ok than a way for new players to get to try everything or to get in pace with the older players faster?
Sisi.
And if you participate in the test sessions, that will gain you 2 million SP to do what ever you wish (on Sisi, of course).
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Gronn
V.E.I. -Entropy-
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 15:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
CorInaXeraL wrote:Out of fear of being elitist...
I've been working on getting where I'm at since 2005. Why should someone who joined in 2012 be brought up to my level without having to go through that same investment cycle? CCP already gave them Neural remaps to streamline training, something that was unavailable for most of my own.
It's called evolution. All things change, I've been playing since 2003 and I don't care if someone new is able to compete with me in a shorter amount of time. I guess we all have our own opinions... |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 19:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
The only way not to break this would be to give a purchasable option for players to do this one single time and never again Yes we have all made mistakes, hell I myself would love to remove / move some skills I know I will never use again.
But to constantly change skills at a whime is a bad idea. The whole balancing issue that CCP is going through would be pointless. You could all switch to the current flavor and fight. Why bother rebalancing the ships, as CCP is valiantly doing right now, when everyone has a chance to be in the Winmatar? |
Drew Solaert
Wildcard Inc.
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 22:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
OH! I was wondering when this absolutely ******* ******** idea was going to be reposted. Its been a good 3 days.
Eve is a game of consequences. You train something you end up not using? tough. Chances are it'll still find a use. Lets say for example, your a Gallente pilot, and you decide one day that Drake looks pretty good. You train up into it and then find you hate it. Wasted all that time on shield, caldari ship and missile skills? No. What you infact have is a very easy cross train in Minmatar, and being able to make the most of their ships. You also have access to the Worm, Gila and Rattlesnake. But wait! there is MOAR. You also have more options within the ships you fly. Shield Gank Brutix/Talos, Passive Myrm for PvE.
Even if you do it at T2 level you'll still find a use. Lets take assault ships. Engineering and Mech 5. two essential fitting skills. while Gallente frigate 5 gives you more bang for your faction ship buck, with full Comet hybrid damage and with the current Incursus stats, it makes it a beast, the jump from 4 to 5 is huge. Again no waste.
What the real point is, you folks don't have the patience to train up **** and just want to jump into a ship at a drop of a hat, the level of abuse such a thing would create would be unbarable. Perfect fleet comps with skills, sudden switching to industry skills for mining ops. All that.
And whats this bull **** that new players can't compete or catch up? Lies and Slander, and wit the frigate rebalancing this is going to become even futher from the truth. Cheap tackle, more dps, more ECM, another body. Even as low as 300k sp a newbie has a use. Solo of course they'll do shite, but in a fleet, with the right attitude those lil guys will shine.
I lied :o
|
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
382
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 09:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Learn to live with the choices you made. You want fries with that? |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 13:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Learn to live with the choices you made.
If only life would allow for role back. How many ex boyfriends / girlfriends would be removed from memory. |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
106
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 13:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
FireT wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Learn to live with the choices you made. If only life would allow for role back. How many ex boyfriends / girlfriends would be removed from memory.
Or time spent reading horrible threads. |
|
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
84
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
CorInaXeraL wrote:FireT wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Learn to live with the choices you made. If only life would allow for role back. How many ex boyfriends / girlfriends would be removed from memory. Or time spent reading horrible threads.
That too. |
Welfare Scrub
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:People who have more money in real life would have an advantage. The idea of skilling in eve now, is that you evolve and learn from your mistakes, exactly like everyone else did. You cannot 'buy' your way to perfection.
Some people would quit the game over this, so CCP might make less money.
These comments are exceedingly ignorant.
You do realize that you can 'buy' your way to perfection with RL$ via the character bazaar? |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
110
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Welfare Scrub wrote:RavenPaine wrote:People who have more money in real life would have an advantage. The idea of skilling in eve now, is that you evolve and learn from your mistakes, exactly like everyone else did. You cannot 'buy' your way to perfection.
Some people would quit the game over this, so CCP might make less money. These comments are exceedingly ignorant. You do realize that you can 'buy' your way to perfection with RL$ via the character bazaar?
Ah, you mean purchase enough plex from the bazaar to sell in-game to make enough ISK to then turn around and purchase a character?
That is still an 'old' character, one that's followed all of the rules to date to get to where it is at. Besides, the average selling-price for an 'aged' PVP toon, lets say in the 60-80m SP range, is going for...what, 20b? 30b? In plex, that's about 40-60. The going-price for PLEX via EVE AUTHORIZED transactions is about $20.00 US each.
You know what? If you want to spend $1,200usd just to get a leg up...have at it.
But even then, a 'new' skilled character is not immediately introduced into the game. With this 'rollback' system being funded by PLEX for real-money, powerhouse characters would be literally dumped into the market, saturating it and rendering older characters all but obsolete unless someone were gunning for a highly specialized character. And even then...
Spend time on core skills, then a month on ship/weapon specific and rollback as desired? Still way too OP and way too favoring of the 'privileged few'.
The current 'buy it on the bazaar' system at least doesn't duplicate or increase the characters available at that particular skill level. |
Welfare Scrub
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
double posted please delete |
Welfare Scrub
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Welfare Scrub wrote:[quote=CorInaXeraL] Ah, you mean purchase enough plex from the bazaar to sell in-game to make enough ISK to then turn around and purchase a character?
That is still an 'old' character, one that's followed all of the rules to date to get to where it is at. Besides, the average selling-price for an 'aged' PVP toon, lets say in the 60-80m SP range, is going for...what, 20b? 30b? In plex, that's about 40-60. The going-price for PLEX via EVE AUTHORIZED transactions is about $20.00 US each.
You know what? If you want to spend $1,200usd just to get a leg up...have at it.
But even then, a 'new' skilled character is not immediately introduced into the game. With this 'rollback' system being funded by PLEX for real-money, powerhouse characters would be literally dumped into the market, saturating it and rendering older characters all but obsolete unless someone were gunning for a highly specialized character. And even then...
Spend time on core skills, then a month on ship/weapon specific and rollback as desired? Still way too OP and way too favoring of the 'privileged few'.
The current 'buy it on the bazaar' system at least doesn't duplicate or increase the characters available at that particular skill level.
I'm not overly in favor of his proposal but if you want to try to claim that it's "totally unfair" for somebody to pay to reset skill points that they actually paid their subscription for, and waited to train, While at the same time saying it's totally fair that somebody can turn around and buy any character they want (barring the name) and any amount of in-game items is in fact totally ok is utterly daft.
Furthermore, plex cost 17.5 if you buy GTCs, and can be purchased on special for ~$15 from time to time. Additionally, a good 50-75% of the cost of those "advanced" characters is soaked up in subscription costs required to actually create them. Finally, there is a segment of players that create characters solely with the intention of selling them.
|
Annunaki soldier
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 15:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
CorInaXeraL wrote:Welfare Scrub wrote:RavenPaine wrote:People who have more money in real life would have an advantage. The idea of skilling in eve now, is that you evolve and learn from your mistakes, exactly like everyone else did. You cannot 'buy' your way to perfection.
Some people would quit the game over this, so CCP might make less money. These comments are exceedingly ignorant. You do realize that you can 'buy' your way to perfection with RL$ via the character bazaar? Ah, you mean purchase enough plex from the bazaar to sell in-game to make enough ISK to then turn around and purchase a character? That is still an 'old' character, one that's followed all of the rules to date to get to where it is at. Besides, the average selling-price for an 'aged' PVP toon, lets say in the 60-80m SP range, is going for...what, 20b? 30b? In plex, that's about 40-60. The going-price for PLEX via EVE AUTHORIZED transactions is about $20.00 US each. You know what? If you want to spend $1,200usd just to get a leg up...have at it. But even then, a 'new' skilled character is not immediately introduced into the game. With this 'rollback' system being funded by PLEX for real-money, powerhouse characters would be literally dumped into the market, saturating it and rendering older characters all but obsolete unless someone were gunning for a highly specialized character. And even then... Spend time on core skills, then a month on ship/weapon specific and rollback as desired? Still way too OP and way too favoring of the 'privileged few'. The current 'buy it on the bazaar' system at least doesn't duplicate or increase the characters available at that particular skill level.
No it wont. Old chars might get a boost at the price because you can have more sp to 'play' with. Dont get me wrong but i see some people are just 'jelous' over some that would be able to do it. But still that is how life is. I would prefer to have an option to reset and fix some mistakes i made even if i had to bust my @@ to gather the plex for that action. If someone has the money to buy those plex, i wouldnt get neither angry not state it aint fair cause i have to work for them. It how life is'.
|
Radius Prime
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 19:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why not just train right from the start? With all the elite old skool players yapping about what works and what not it's really not that hard for a newb like me to figure out what to train for my chosen profession. Do your research. If you are even too lazy to do that I don't think you belong in eve. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sam Seama wrote:I was thinking the other day (what, thinking? are you still alive?) at the idea that I might waste 30 days on training for a ship that I might end up not liking. An a got an idea, what if for a fee, let's say a PLEX, you can roll back 30 days worth of skill, so I pay a PLEX and unlearn all the skills in the last 30 days, but I get the skill-points to spend on other shills. Example: I train for a hound and I don't like it, not my style to stay stealthy and do nothing, now I just wastwd time getting into something I end up not liking, so I rollback skills and get T2 guns on a tornado for example and I like the better dps on my tornado than the stealthy advantage of a hound. Think about it, people have more reasons to buy more PLEX thus you, the CCP ends up making more money.
Many people here are shooting down the idea of moving SPs. While I agree with that, I specifically want to discuss the main concern from the OP. What if you train for a ship, and then figure out that you don't like flying that ship?
CCP did a very good job of intertwining all the skills so that it is very difficult to train a useless skill, especially early in your career.
I started a skillplan to fly the Hound on a blank character. Here are the skills which take longer than 1 day to finish: * Minmatar Frigate 4, Minmatar Frigate 5. If you are thinking for training for a Hound, I assume you already fly a Rifter. The Minmatar Frigate skill benefits the Rifter and all the other Tech 1 Minmatar frigates. Level 5 is also required for the whole set of Minmatar Tech 2 frigates: Cheetah, Claw, Hound, Hyena, Jaguar, Stiletto, and the Wolf. (Also the Sabre until they change it.) So even if you find you don't like the Hound, the skill training won't be wasted if you decide you do like any of the other ships. * Electronics Upgrades 4, Electronics Upgrades 5. Electronics Upgrades 4 is required for the Coprocessor 2 module. You want to be able to fit that. Electronics Upgrades 5 is the prerequisite for the Covert Ops skill. The Covert Ops skill is not only good for the stealth bombers, but also for the scanning frigates. You will want one of those if you ever play in wormholes. They are also good for finding players trying to hide in safespots and exploration sites. The Covert Ops skill also leads to the Recon skill. So if you ever fly the Huginn, Rapier, Arazu, Lachesis, Falcon, Rook, Curse, or Pilgrim then the Electronics Upgrades 5 skill will give you a head start for that training. * Missile Bombardment 4. This is a prerequisite for Bomb Deployment. If you are not flying in 0.0 or in wormholes, then don't bother training for bombs yet. Try flying a torpedo fit first, and you will know when you want to add bombs. Missile Bombardment is also one of the missile support skills, so it will help you on any ship to which you ever mount a missile launcher. * Torpedoes. Don't wait until you have this skill trained up high to get into the Hound for the first time. Yes, the skill will improve your damage, but you can get a feel for the ship without spending too many SPs here. If you do train torpedoes up and later discover you do not like stealth bombers, there are a few other ships which use torpedoes: Typhoon, Raven... well like I said, don't put too many SPs in this skill before trying out the bomber.
So you see, the skill rollback idea is not even needed. Any skill you train will almost certainly be useful in the future, even if you end up using it for different ships than the original plan. |
Relient Tolemus
Fist of Eargon The Jagged Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
If you really need this, it just shows that you didn't research the ship before you committed to it. Go on the forums, find out about the ship in question, and if it seems like something you would like then get it. This seems more like a "I trained for a ship cuz it looks cool and now I hate it" thread. It's also important to remember that this is a signature. |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
116
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Or...do what I did. Well on my way to flying ALL ships T2-fitted. With that, I don't have to worry about anything needing a rollback... Jump in and go! Nyeeerrrrooom. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |