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stoicfaux
1364
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Posted - 2012.07.31 17:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
For those of you who prefer Europe's tight gun laws, you may want to do some proactive legislation. However, banning 3D printers outright will probably put Europe at a competitive disadvantage.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printed-gun
Quote: In short, this means that people without gun licenses GÇö or people who have had their licenses revoked GÇö could print their own lower receiver and build a complete, off-the-books gun.
slashdot commentary: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/07/31/1614228/additive-manufacturing-3d-printing-gun-control-and-patent-law
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
577
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
That was actually ingenious. It never occurred to me that people with blueprints can just fire up a CNC machine and mill their own gun from scratch. |
stoicfaux
1364
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think the point is that with plastics, plans downloaded from the internet, and 'cheap' 3d printers it won't be long before the unwashed masses can create all sorts of interesting devices and there's not a lot that can be done to stop, track, or otherwise regulate them, for better or worse. On one hand you will soon be able to print a plastic toy for your kid using the home printer. On the other hand, your kid may decide that printing a Klingon d'k tahg may be more fun.
Kind of like how some police officers have had an adverse reaction to being filmed as cameras and video cams have become almost ubiquitous (i.e. small enough to fit into cell phones.) Except now, any ******* will be able to get an untraceable gun.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2075
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Posted - 2012.07.31 19:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
How does the lower receiver make a gun at all untraceable? I'll admit my gun knowledge is a bit limited (how un-Texan of me), but it's not like they're printing the firing pin, barrel, or any of the other mechanisms that actually come in contact with the bullet. THOSE are the parts you need to be able to trace, not the molding that makes it easy to hold. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
578
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Posted - 2012.07.31 19:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah to my knowledge its the grooves in the rifling that imprint the thumbprint on the bullet, though it's impossible with a .22 since its lead and just shatters upon impact anyways.
My main concern would be the ability to just print an entire gun. That resin is some pretty powerful stuff there. Maybe not so powerful yet to make a spring that can handle the force but for a caliber as small as .22 I think most other parts in the gun can take the pressure with resin.
Jay Leno has been using one of these for a long time now to make one off gears and other parts for his cars that may no longer be manufactured. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
595
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Posted - 2012.07.31 20:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hurray, I can finally give myself the sex change operation I wanted now. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
485
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Posted - 2012.07.31 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why bother? Without a license for it, that weapon is ilegal and thus owning it and being caught means trouble. "We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
578
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Posted - 2012.07.31 21:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Why bother? Without a license for it, that weapon is ilegal and thus owning it and being caught means trouble.
Yeah bad guys don't like playing by the rules. I guess that's why they're called criminals. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2012.07.31 21:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Woah, they could make mil spec upper receivers
Cheapest full auto assault rifle ever |
Evil Incarn8
The Fiction Factory Blue Nation
16
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Posted - 2012.07.31 21:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
ammunition? i want to see a 3d printer create explosives out of thin air |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2012.07.31 22:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Evil Incarn8 wrote:ammunition? i want to see a 3d printer create explosives out of thin air
Easier to get than the gun
*Also you can make your own black powder, no where near as powerful but can still blow a hole clean through someone |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.07.31 22:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Evil Incarn8 wrote:ammunition? i want to see a 3d printer create explosives out of thin air
PVC pipe and a couple of kitchen cleaning supplies will get you explosives easily. And the best part is all the ingredients are legal.
Like surf said you can make your own black powder but the casing I don't think will work well with the resin, the walls would be too thin. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1053
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Posted - 2012.07.31 23:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:That was actually ingenious. It never occurred to me that people with blueprints can just fire up a CNC machine and mill their own gun from scratch.
and yet we are trying to ploice it, won't that make ony the people who don't give a **** about following the law get weapons soon? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Charles Baker
Federal Mineral Acquisition VORTEX RISING
144
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Posted - 2012.08.01 00:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Don't see why this is even being brought up, anyone can cobble together a firearm (or at the very least projectile) weapon in their shed. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 00:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:That was actually ingenious. It never occurred to me that people with blueprints can just fire up a CNC machine and mill their own gun from scratch. and yet we are trying to ploice it, won't that make ony the people who don't give a **** about following the law get weapons soon?
One of my ideals in life is that if you can think of it, chances are somebody else has as well, so more than likely some of the shadier elements have already had a day where they were sitting in a chair wondering if it was possible to create a gun with a 3d printer.
Resin doesn't set off metal detectors. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1201
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Posted - 2012.08.01 01:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:the interesting thing is that the lower receiver GÇö in a legal sense at least GÇö is what actually constitutes a firearm. Without a lower receiver, the gun would not work; thus, the receiver is the actual legally-controlled part. Sounds pretty easy to "fix". The upper part is not exactly printable, so all you need to do is extend the law to cover the upper parts too. Who the bloody hell thought to make just the support of the actual weapon illegal but the actual weapon part of the weapon not, anyway ? Isn't that a bit bonkers ? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T http://eve-search.com/stats/Akita_T T2 BPO poll : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2012.08.01 01:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Quote:the interesting thing is that the lower receiver GÇö in a legal sense at least GÇö is what actually constitutes a firearm. Without a lower receiver, the gun would not work; thus, the receiver is the actual legally-controlled part. Sounds pretty easy to "fix". The upper part is not exactly printable, so all you need to do is extend the law to cover the upper parts too. Who the bloody hell thought to make just the support of the actual weapon illegal but the actual weapon part of the weapon not, anyway ? Isn't that a bit bonkers ? P.S. It's probably cheaper and faster to build an AK-47 variant in your own garage already anyway.
The upper receiver isn't 1 piece... the M16(A2) including the handguards had over 20 parts to the upper receiver. The A4 has even more. The kicker is that all the parts are harmless by themselves (unless fired at you from a blunderbus) so any half assed lawyer will rip said law to pieces |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
157
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Posted - 2012.08.01 03:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
this here tank is just a bunch of harmless pieces, tanks for everyone \o/ |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1753
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Posted - 2012.08.01 03:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:this here tank is just a bunch of harmless pieces, tanks for everyone \o/
Everyone who has the $4,000,000 for the pieces |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1668
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Posted - 2012.08.01 03:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think the initial accounts of this were overblown.
A lower receiver was printed. This is the part that houses the trigger group, buffer and spring, and magazine well.
They didn't make an entire gun, and this is not yet possible unless the military has some seriously advanced stuff underground.
In the USA, we have been making AR lowers in our back yards for a long time. it's possible to buy an "80 percent receiver" without paperwork too - it's basically a shape of a receiver that needs to be finish milled and holes drilled (using a template - easy).
Otherwise, a barrel, bolt carrier, upper, still needs to be purchased.
Here's a site you can learn from |
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baltec1
Bat Country
1759
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Posted - 2012.08.01 04:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Evil Incarn8 wrote:ammunition? i want to see a 3d printer create explosives out of thin air Easier to get than the gun *Also you can make your own black powder, no where near as powerful but can still blow a hole clean through someone
Most likely the gun owner |
Something Random
The Barrow Boys
174
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Posted - 2012.08.01 06:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
The lower receiver is the ID stamped part and needs to be purchased with your gun license and registered. All the other parts of the Ar-15 are freely available and unregulated apparently. This guy hasnt modelled any other part of the gun, he went and got the freely available parts then modelled the lower receiver that you should not be able to get and built the gun, he even modded it to start with smaller guages and less powerful munitions first - just in case.
Interesting stuff.
But anyone with Secondary School (High School) education and workshops can do that anyway as a guy i knew in our school did, went and made himself a "theoretically" workable Mach-10, just had to conform to UK decomissioned/replica gun law and it was all good apparently.
So good it worked i heard. No idea how they found that out of course, nor the recomissioned luger and browning. "caught on fire a little bit, just a little." "Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangsn++ all here!" |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
485
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Posted - 2012.08.01 13:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Why bother? Without a license for it, that weapon is ilegal and thus owning it and being caught means trouble. Yeah bad guys don't like playing by the rules. I guess that's why they're called criminals.
Getting ilegal weapons is not a real trouble for a criminal (black market is black market everywhere). "We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 14:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Why bother? Without a license for it, that weapon is ilegal and thus owning it and being caught means trouble. Yeah bad guys don't like playing by the rules. I guess that's why they're called criminals. Getting ilegal weapons is not a real trouble for a criminal (black market is black market everywhere).
Yes I know that. In fact I tried telling you that in the last thread, hence why I think draconian gun restrictions is idiotic because all you are doing is putting the good guys at a disadvantage.
I had my hands on a couple of hot items once which included a survival rifle that could be broken in half and stored in a backpack in a matter of seconds, came with a bipod and scope, a desert eagle, and a very powerful homemade crossbow that used a hunting rifle stock and receiver to control it. |
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
11
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Posted - 2012.08.01 15:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Yes I know that. In fact I tried telling you that in the last thread, hence why I think draconian gun restrictions is idiotic because all you are doing is putting the good guys at a disadvantage.
I had my hands on a couple of hot items once which included a survival rifle that could be broken in half and stored in a backpack in a matter of seconds, came with a bipod and scope, a desert eagle, and a very powerful homemade crossbow that used a hunting rifle stock and receiver to control it.
Yet western europe has much less gun crime victims.
Personally I am also more afraid of some of the citizens who want a gun to protect themselves.
One example: If I would see a suspicious person walking around my house I would probably call the police to deal with it. A person armed with a gun might be far more eager to use it while telling himself that he does it to protect himself. Or to say it in a metapher: If you have a hammer, a lot of problems start to look like nails.
In the US there are people I personally would not trust with a spoon and a fork, wielding automatic firearms. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 15:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Yes I know that. In fact I tried telling you that in the last thread, hence why I think draconian gun restrictions is idiotic because all you are doing is putting the good guys at a disadvantage.
I had my hands on a couple of hot items once which included a survival rifle that could be broken in half and stored in a backpack in a matter of seconds, came with a bipod and scope, a desert eagle, and a very powerful homemade crossbow that used a hunting rifle stock and receiver to control it.
Yet western europe has much less gun crime victims. Personally I am also more afraid of some of the citizens who want a gun to protect themselves. One example: If I would see a suspicious person walking around my house I would probably call the police to deal with it. A person armed with a gun might be far more eager to use it while telling himself that he does it to protect himself. Or to say it in a metapher: If you have a hammer, a lot of problems start to look like nails. In the US there are people I personally would not trust with a spoon and a fork, wielding automatic firearms.
My question is why are you watching suspicious people walk around your home? Are you that paranoid that you spend your days staring out the blinds?
Other than that I do enjoy the usual ignorant views that one has of gun owners. All thinking that we really do run outside firing off our shotgun while yelling 'Get off my lawn!". Well as a person with a gun, I never felt the need to use suspicious persons passing by my house as target practice. But then I didn't spend my days peeking out the blinds. In fact my firearms are safely locked away in a 1200 lb safe, not spread strategically around the house like a militia compound.
You are also welcome to come back and tell me how great gun laws are when the crime rate with them is zero. Until then, I will consider them broken and futile. |
Alara IonStorm
2818
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Posted - 2012.08.01 17:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
So replicators just suddenly exist now... I should pay more attention.
I wounder if I could make ponies figurines out of them. I mean guns, manly guns.
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Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2012.08.01 17:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with at least one of the parties involved the situation might escalate into something worse. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
28
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Posted - 2012.08.01 17:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse.
And what if guy B has a knife and guy A is defenseless, gets stabbed 8 times in the chest and twice in the face, because he left his protection at home |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 18:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse. And what if guy B has a knife and guy A is defenseless, gets stabbed 8 times in the chest and twice in the face, because he left his protection at home
Pool stick, ashtray, beer bottle, shoe, fist. I'm not going to argue that B wouldn't start at fight with A at all, I'm just going to point out the fallacy of only implementing one weapon into the scenario right after I posted a quote saying that man has created more ways to kill man that there is making bread.
And a broken nose eh. Do you know how many cases of manslaughter are reported each year? Except in Iceland, apparently they don't hit each other in Iceland.
Would you like to try again?
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