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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
486
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Posted - 2012.08.01 20:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Why bother? Without a license for it, that weapon is ilegal and thus owning it and being caught means trouble. Yeah bad guys don't like playing by the rules. I guess that's why they're called criminals. Getting ilegal weapons is not a real trouble for a criminal (black market is black market everywhere). Yes I know that. In fact I tried telling you that in the last thread, hence why I think draconian gun restrictions is idiotic because all you are doing is putting the good guys at a disadvantage. (...)
As i pointed in that thread, Spain is not suffering any harm from that, and is way safer from crime than the USA.
Yoru chances to be shot dead are 4x my chances to be murdered by any mean. Your chances to be murdered by any mean are 7x my chances to be murdered by any mean. Where is your safety, dude? "We want your help to convince management to develop Incarna into 3rd person shooter dungeon raiding with friendly fire in nullsec space..."
Seriously, Team Avatar? |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 21:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Yes I know that. In fact I tried telling you that in the last thread, hence why I think draconian gun restrictions is idiotic because all you are doing is putting the good guys at a disadvantage.
(...)
As i pointed in that thread, Spain is not suffering any harm from that, and is way safer from crime than the USA.
2008 per 100,000 is .67 in spain. www.gunpolicy.org. But we already knew how good you are at putting your foot in your mouth. Like I told the other person, until your gun crime reaches zero don't think about preaching to me from the soapbox. When your gun crime reaches zero, I will gladly turn in my own firearm. No harm my ass. Hey, I still haven't seen any of those citations I've been asking for. What's the matter, can't find them?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Yoru chances to be shot dead are 4x my chances to be murdered by any mean. Your chances to be murdered by any mean are 7x my chances to be murdered by any mean. Where is your safety, dude?
Why on my hip of course. Where's yours? |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1754
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Posted - 2012.08.01 21:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse.
I assume you're not taking into account the population differences of Germany and the United States?
Germany: Approx 82,000,000
USA: Approx 307,000,000 |
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2012.08.01 21:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Pool stick, ashtray, beer bottle, shoe, fist. I'm not going to argue that B wouldn't start at fight with A at all, I'm just going to point out the fallacy of only implementing one weapon into the scenario right after I posted a quote saying that man has created more ways to kill man than there is making bread.
And a broken nose eh. Do you know how many cases of manslaughter are reported each year? Except in Iceland, apparently they don't hit each other in Iceland.
Would you like to try again?
Yes No
You still fail to see it.
A knife can be a lethal weapon but to use it in such a way you need some strength or at least considerable skill, something one can hardly muster while being drunk or so enraged that all self control vanishes. For example the human chest is protected by ribs and muscle tissue, a lethal attack in that area is everything but easy. The neck and skull are areas we humans defend on an instinctual level, a single strike with a knife is not likely to kill someone.
The same goes for an ashtray. An ashtray can smash a human skull but it needs to hit the right area or have considerable force to achieve this. That is the important difference in lethality. Without a gun it would end as a hardly newsworthy bar fight, with guns however things have a chance to get out of control.
A trained person can make almost everything into a lethal weapons, but they are rarely the danger. The real danger are the halfwits with barely any training but holding weapons with a lot of potential to deal lethal wounds.
By the way a trained professional you would hardly need a gun for you protection, the special need is something for the half trained ones, the ones being a danger for their fellow citizens. |
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse. I assume you're not taking into account the population differences of Germany and the United States? Germany: Approx 82,000,000 USA: Approx 307,000,000
Yes the statistics take the numbers into account because they are compared per 100000 persons.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate
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Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
365
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:... a survival rifle that could be broken in half and stored in a backpack in a matter of seconds...
Sub2k owner spotted.
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1754
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:... a survival rifle that could be broken in half and stored in a backpack in a matter of seconds... Sub2k owner spotted.
The AR15 does that too |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
365
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote: ... might be far more eager to use ...
That really depends on many other variables:
1. Local criminal law 2. Local civil law 3. Ghetto level of the hood 4. Teenagers/college kids near by 5. How fast is your local police 6. Can you afford dealing with the aftermath (time in court / loss income / mental issues of taking a life / etc) 7. People with you in the house, kids, wife near by. 8. How good/bad of a shot you actually are under stress. 9. etc
To me the main thing is that, because people here might be armed, it is more likely that the criminal will rob the house when I'm not in it... or not rob at all.
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
365
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Pool stick, ashtray, beer bottle, shoe, fist. I'm not going to argue that B wouldn't start at fight with A at all, I'm just going to point out the fallacy of only implementing one weapon into the scenario right after I posted a quote saying that man has created more ways to kill man than there is making bread.
And a broken nose eh. Do you know how many cases of manslaughter are reported each year? Except in Iceland, apparently they don't hit each other in Iceland.
Would you like to try again?
Yes No
And don't forget that in most states your License to Carry does not allows you to either carry drunk, or carry in places of nuisance. The drunken gun owner at the pub will get in trouble, fight or no fight. "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.01 23:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:You still fail to see it. A knife can be a lethal weapon but to use it in such a way you need some strength or at least considerable skill, something one can hardly muster while being drunk or so enraged that all self control vanishes.
You contradicted yourself in that sentence. One needs strength to cut but he wouldn't have that obviously because his self control vanished. His self control vanished. And a person certainly wouldn't swing harder when they're enraged, golly gee no. Don't know about you but I sure as well was a mean drunk. Alcohol is quite good at removing inhibitions.
Not that the above even matters because its bull. 7 years of throwing freight has left me with a lot of nick scars. Sliced my thumb open to the bone once; it didn't take strength at all, just a brand new blade. Like butter man.
Tian Jade wrote:For example the human chest is protected by ribs and muscle tissue, a lethal attack in that area is everything but easy. The neck and skull are areas we humans defend on an instinctual level, a single strike with a knife is not likely to kill someone.
Jugular artery in the neck Femoral artery in the inner thigh Basilic and Axillary artery in the arm and armpit Iliac just above the groin Brachiocephalic at the collar Liver on the right Kidneys in the back Esophagus 4" on a under arm swing to reach the heart and lungs
You don't need skill, just a lucky hit. 6" scar on my chest is a testament of that. It's my reminder every day that I look in the mirror. Yeah I don't see it . I'm not the one trying to cheapen one way to die just to make another way seem worse. I know how fragile the human body really is, do you?
Tian Jade wrote:A trained person can make almost everything into a lethal weapons, but they are rarely the danger. The real danger are the halfwits with barely any training but holding weapons with a lot of potential to inflict lethal wounds.
The irony in you saying that. I've taken my gun safety glasses and my hunters safety. I preach safety to anyone I take out to the range. I'm for background checks when purchasing a firearm. By your own admission, I am not the danger and yet you don't like me having a firearm. The same applies to all those people that you said you were afraid of who are looking for the shady characters on their lawn. I'll tell you what, if it bothers you so much you are more than welcome to come on over and remove them from my residence.
Shameless Avenger wrote: Sub2k owner spotted.
Sadly I haven't had for like a decade and it's too bad, that was an awesome rifle. I don't remember what it was other than the fact that it said Handy Gun on the barrel. I only remember that because we used to joke about it being so handy with storing it away in a backpack and being able to assemble it in a matter of seconds. It was basically a survivalist rifle. |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1756
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Posted - 2012.08.02 00:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
Accuracy **** (rhymes with not-si ) time....
The jugular is a vein, the carotid is the artery (and there are 2 on each side, an internal and external carotid) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1668
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse.
Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States GÇô and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.
Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries GÇô and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London.
It was in the later decades of the 20th century that the British government clamped down with severe gun control laws, disarming virtually the entire law-abiding citizenry. Gun crimes, including murder, rose as the public was disarmed.
Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.
The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.
Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda.
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Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
47
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Posted - 2012.08.02 18:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
What about the guy in China that stabbed and killed 8 people? Thats what happens when you don't bring a gun to a knife fight. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
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Posted - 2012.08.02 18:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:What about the guy in China that stabbed and killed 8 people? Thats what happens when you don't bring a gun to a knife fight.
And this is what happens when you do. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
53
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Posted - 2012.08.02 19:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
o7 **** ye America |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1668
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Posted - 2012.08.03 01:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:What about the guy in China that stabbed and killed 8 people? Thats what happens when you don't bring a gun to a knife fight.
The victims brought their helpess soft asses to a knife fight.
Did you know that even intermediate level knife skills will make you more dangerous than 95 percent of the rest of the world (if they don't bring guns)?
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pussnheels
505
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Posted - 2012.08.03 05:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sometimes i have the feeling that some of you americans are convinced that the brits are going to march up the hill again at Bunker Hill I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
581
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Posted - 2012.08.03 05:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:Sometimes i have the feeling that some of you americans are convinced that the brits are going to march up the hill again at Bunker Hill
Fine with me, you're all unarmed |
Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tian Jade wrote:Stupid forums ate my post..
The rate of homicides is 5x higher in the US then in Germany and in many european countries police forces do not even carry firearms while on regular duty. There are reasons for this but I will give you another example you gun maniacs always fail to account.
Two people get into an argument while being drunk, the situation gets out of hand and A hits B into the face. Now B is also drunk, really mad at A .. and armed with a gun.
I know you will now argue that B would never be so stupid as to start a fight with A since A is armed but people are rarely that reasonable, especially not while being drunk.
Without a gun the worst that might happen might be a broken nose and a few bruises but with a gun in the hands of one of the parties involved, situation might escalate into something worse.
Statistics pretty much disprove your claims. You can sit around and make up fanciful what ifs all day long, and if thats what you need to do to justify your opinion so be it. But the truth is far, far different than you think it is. |
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