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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.09.28 15:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 28/09/2010 16:01:36 The Proteus Electronics Subsystem the CPU-EG at present offers:- +1 low and +3 mid slots
- +360 CPU with an extra 5% per skill level
- 65 km targeting range and a scan res of 225 (before skills) with a sensor strength of 17
I have been EFT Warrior'ing like mad trying to place this subsystem with a combination of other however I have found it completely redundant. One of the other three other subsystems is always a better choice for what role you would like to fill. If you want an un-probable command ship, use a Dissolution Sequencer for the sensor strength bonus. If you want to PvE Explore use the Emergent Locus Analyser and the Friction Extension Processor gives you long range warp disruption/scramble capabilities. None of the fits I've been looking at require the ammount of CPU the CPU-EG offers and all the subsystems offer +1 low and +3 mid slots.
I think this subsystem needs a dramatic redesign to something useful or an entirely different subsystem. I'd like to discuss what these could be and the possible implications of such changes.
I think the first change should be that the CPU-EG should give +4 (maybe even +5) midslots instead of +1 low and +3 mid.This would give players who are designing a Proteus fit who really want another mid slot an option. Another change could be that the CPU-EG also offers +50 Mbit Drone Bandwidth and +50m3 Drone bay. This would give the Proteus, when combined with the drone offensive subsystems, that magic 125 Mbit drone bandwidth.
So what are some of the implications of these changes?
Well the PvE aspect first. Potentially you could have a passive shield tanked Proteus with a defence efficiency of roughly 600-650 with 570 DPS using 3x 250mm Failgun II's. You're also left with a 3 utility high slots. (T2 fitted) Another PvE fit would offer an active armour tank with a DE of 450 and 630 DPS with blasters, dual webs and an AB perma running. Also with 2 utility highs.(T2 fitted)
PvP possibilities. The Shield Gank would offer 830 DPS and 86.8k EHP (give or take depending on how you like to fit) with 5x Neutrons and 4 Ogre II's with only a warp disruptor/scrambler. (web/more tank would be possible if the CPU-EG offered +5 mids) An armour buffer tanked pure drone boat would offer 730 DPS and 109k EHP. Hardly out of this world performance. You'd also have 3 utility highs that you'd struggle to fill with anything power hungry.
Does anyone else have any suggestions or can see something glaringly wrong with this idea and yes I know that you could potentially get 150 Mbit bandwidth with this but that would only be useful if this subsystem let you also fit a Drone Control unit, which to be honest, isn't that mad either.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.09.29 02:54:00 -
[2]
I think that the idea of +5 mid slots no lows and +50Mbit +50m3 drone bay while keeping its cpu bonus would be the perfect solution to make this subsystem useful
+1
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Dark Drifter
Amarr Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.29 08:46:00 -
[3]
sounds plausable. . . . . but then again 5 oger II's would be stepping on the ishtars toes, 90% of gallente ships are armour tanked (some can be efectivly tanked for shield "myrm")
there is also a ballancing issue within the T3 relm. currently IMO the picking order for T3 is somthing like this
tengu (best mission T3) proteus (epix gang pvp with good tank and gank at same time) loki (2nd epix gang PVP unrivaled speed and tracking, DPS lacking) legion (good gang pvp, EPIX locking speed, massivly underwhelming DPS)
i think that all T3's need the 5th mod for each SS and the loki legion need a slight DPS rework. to our departed friend EDD "april 09" fly true man |
Frakir Shedimbirut
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Posted - 2010.09.29 10:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dark Drifter
tengu (best mission T3) proteus (epix gang pvp with good tank and gank at same time) loki (2nd epix gang PVP unrivaled speed and tracking, DPS lacking) legion (good gang pvp, EPIX locking speed, massivly underwhelming DPS)
i think that all T3's need the 5th mod for each SS and the loki legion need a slight DPS rework.
Maybe AFTER the Legion gets a bit of attention.
Also, unsupported. Proteus is good enough as it is.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.09.29 15:04:00 -
[5]
I agree that the Proteus is a good ship. What I am saying is that the CPU-EG subsystem is completely useless. I am also offering something that could be done to change that. This is a discussion about this subsystem, not other ships.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.09.29 17:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Drifter ....but then again 5 oger II's would be stepping on the ishtars toes....
well the proteus already out tanks and out dps's all other gallente ships of equal size so I don't think that would do so much also the proteus costs 5 times more..
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.09.29 20:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 29/09/2010 20:26:30 Of the t3's, the proteus is my pick for pvp. It's got it all really, dps, tank and a 20km scram if you want it. The CPU subsystem is indeed rather crap. I've got a full rack of neutron II's on mine and I'm going a little nuts with cpu usage and I've still got plenty left. That's the way it should be for any t3 ship of course given their price tag, but it also means the CPU subsystem is a bit pointless.
I would like to see it changed to something more useful. Giving it a drone component would be overpowered however. It's already the gankiest brawler t3, giving it the ability to use 5x mediums or 4+ heavies with any configuration using it just makes it stomp all over the others. And it's already superior. I think a better option is simply replacing it with a scan resolution subsystem like the legion has. It doesn't add tank or dps, just speeds up lock time. I suppose you could make it have +1 mid, -1 low compared to the other electronic subsystems.
All that said, the legion needs a look first. The 10% cap usage per level bonus on all legion offensive subsystems needs to be replaced with a useful bonus. The whole reason the legion has such laughable dps is due entirely to it's complete lack of a damage bonus on half of it's offensive subsystems and the other half getting effectively only 2 damage bonuses instead of 3. This applies to many amarr ships however, the maller also needs that bonus changed to 5% RoF or damage. So it's not exactly a problem unique to the legion.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.09.30 10:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: King Rothgar Edited by: King Rothgar on 29/09/2010 20:26:30 Of the t3's, the proteus is my pick for pvp. It's got it all really, dps, tank and a 20km scram if you want it. The CPU subsystem is indeed rather crap. I've got a full rack of neutron II's on mine and I'm going a little nuts with cpu usage and I've still got plenty left. That's the way it should be for any t3 ship of course given their price tag, but it also means the CPU subsystem is a bit pointless.
I would like to see it changed to something more useful. Giving it a drone component would be overpowered however. It's already the gankiest brawler t3, giving it the ability to use 5x mediums or 4+ heavies with any configuration using it just makes it stomp all over the others. And it's already superior. I think a better option is simply replacing it with a scan resolution subsystem like the legion has. It doesn't add tank or dps, just speeds up lock time. I suppose you could make it have +1 mid, -1 low compared to the other electronic subsystems.
I disagree that this subsystem giving extra drones would be overpowered. Remember, you're sacrificing that long range scrambler and Blaster damage/tank for an extra mid and 120 extra dps, all be it drone DPS which can be easily removed. Also, the remaining 60% of your DPS is with blasters and as we all know, unless you're holding the target by the throat with your bare hands sticking out of your pod window, you're not in range. Maybe 50 Mbit/50m3 is too much (drop it to 25/25 perhaps) but I'm still gonna stick to my original idea of additional drones.
I agree that the Legion is somewhat lacking but I haven't tried fiddling with that ship yet. I might have a poke around at some point.
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Angie McFish
Gallente Caldari Industrial Capitalist Consortium
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Posted - 2010.09.30 10:29:00 -
[9]
It would be nice if the drone system would actually be useful. Right now it's not much better than a myrm.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.10.02 10:33:00 -
[10]
bump
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Arnold Predator
Special Situations
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Posted - 2010.10.03 13:02:00 -
[11]
As someone that flys a proteus every day.... your right the CPU-EG is 100% useless.
Supported
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.03 18:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Spugg Galdon
Originally by: King Rothgar Edited by: King Rothgar on 29/09/2010 20:26:30 Of the t3's, the proteus is my pick for pvp. It's got it all really, dps, tank and a 20km scram if you want it. The CPU subsystem is indeed rather crap. I've got a full rack of neutron II's on mine and I'm going a little nuts with cpu usage and I've still got plenty left. That's the way it should be for any t3 ship of course given their price tag, but it also means the CPU subsystem is a bit pointless.
I would like to see it changed to something more useful. Giving it a drone component would be overpowered however. It's already the gankiest brawler t3, giving it the ability to use 5x mediums or 4+ heavies with any configuration using it just makes it stomp all over the others. And it's already superior. I think a better option is simply replacing it with a scan resolution subsystem like the legion has. It doesn't add tank or dps, just speeds up lock time. I suppose you could make it have +1 mid, -1 low compared to the other electronic subsystems.
I disagree that this subsystem giving extra drones would be overpowered. Remember, you're sacrificing that long range scrambler and Blaster damage/tank for an extra mid and 120 extra dps, all be it drone DPS which can be easily removed. Also, the remaining 60% of your DPS is with blasters and as we all know, unless you're holding the target by the throat with your bare hands sticking out of your pod window, you're not in range. Maybe 50 Mbit/50m3 is too much (drop it to 25/25 perhaps) but I'm still gonna stick to my original idea of additional drones.
I agree that the Legion is somewhat lacking but I haven't tried fiddling with that ship yet. I might have a poke around at some point.
I think you mistook my meaning here. I am in no way opposed to giving the proteus the ability to field 5 heavies at a time. But that ability should be attached to the drone subsystem, not an electronics subsystem. The reason is that the gank offensive subsystem already allows 3 heavies + 6 neutrons with a 50% damage bonus on them. Adding 2 more heavies on top of that just makes the thing stupidly overpowered compared to the other t3's. As such, that ability must be on the drone subsystem (which is currently weak tbh), it really shouldn't be attached to anything else.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.10.03 21:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 03/10/2010 21:01:37
Originally by: King Rothgar
I think you mistook my meaning here. I am in no way opposed to giving the proteus the ability to field 5 heavies at a time. But that ability should be attached to the drone subsystem, not an electronics subsystem. The reason is that the gank offensive subsystem already allows 3 heavies + 6 neutrons with a 50% damage bonus on them. Adding 2 more heavies on top of that just makes the thing stupidly overpowered compared to the other t3's. As such, that ability must be on the drone subsystem (which is currently weak tbh), it really shouldn't be attached to anything else.
After further messing in EFT I can see what you mean and +50 Mbit/+50m3 Drone gear will be too much. However +25Mbit/+25m3 would give the Proteus, in the correct configuration the ability to field 4x Ogre II's and apply 895 DPS at close range with 113.5k EHP (121.6k EHP with Exp Hardener overloaded) (T2 fit). This would be the trade off for not having the long range warp scrambler. Which is a very powerful ability to lose for just a little more DPS. I also think the drone offensive subsystem should remain as it is. You should only be able to get 5 x heavy drones if you use all (potentially) 3 drone subsystems. Looking at the other T3 in gank/buffer fits, they all seem to compare very well in DPS, range, Tank and speed. Even the Legion doesn't look that out of place, yes a tiny bit under par on the DPS front but has selectable damage type and a really impressive buffer. I'll share with you all the fits I'm looking at if you want to see them.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.10.13 10:47:00 -
[14]
bump
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Jahpahjay
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Posted - 2010.10.13 11:58:00 -
[15]
I agree that specific electronics subsystem is useless, but I'm torn as to whether or not making it a drone bonused subsystem is the way to go since the drone offensive subsystem should be where you get the drone power from.
However, I cannot currently think of anything better besides a faster lock time as previously mentioned, but that's not really better, just different. So this has my support if only to give the proteus more attention, and thus hopefully a boost.
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