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Belloch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.09.30 16:54:00 -
[1]
I never understood something when I listen to relativity.
If speed is a function of distance and time.. And the Speed of light is a constant.. Given that we've proven that as an object approaches the speed of light, Time slows for the person in that reference frame.. Which Speed of light is constant at that point? In other words which second does 186,282 miles per second apply to.. The seconds of the reference frame looking at the object approaching the speed of light, or the seconds of the object operating near the speed of light?
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Night Lost
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Posted - 2010.09.30 16:57:00 -
[2]
the speed of light is a reference point from a 'still' point where there is no movement in any direction. so if ur moving at the speed of light forward the speed of light forward is zero :)
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Pneumon Blaster
Gallente Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.09.30 17:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Belloch I never understood something when I listen to relativity.
If speed is a function of distance and time.. And the Speed of light is a constant.. Given that we've proven that as an object approaches the speed of light, Time slows for the person in that reference frame.. Which Speed of light is constant at that point? In other words which second does 186,282 miles per second apply to.. The seconds of the reference frame looking at the object approaching the speed of light, or the seconds of the object operating near the speed of light?
problem here is, that speed of light is not a constant :-)
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Captian Archer
Caldari SP4RTANS Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.30 17:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Night Lost the speed of light is a reference point from a 'still' point where there is no movement in any direction. so if ur moving at the speed of light forward the speed of light forward is zero :)
Not true. The speed of light is the same no matter how close to the speed of light you travel. So if you travel at 50% LS and shine a torch forwards the light will move out from the torch at 100%.
It more complicated really but that's the very basic answer.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.30 17:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Culmen on 30/09/2010 17:50:14
The answer is it is constant for ALL observers.
Both the time dilated and "still" observer will observe the light going the same speed.
Suppose we have observer A, observer B and Light Pulse C
Suppose Observer A is on the ground Observer B is on a Starship with flash light
Obsever B approaches light speed and turns on the flashlight away from observer A
so
A B->> C->>
When A sees C, he records it at light speed When B sees C, he records the exact same speed.
But heres how to resolve the paradox.
The Lorentz Contraction
Not only is time being bent , space is at well Observer A notices that observer B is shorter then he actually is at rest. He records the distance, and finds that C traveled a proportionally shorter distance. IE Suppose observer B ship is 100 meters long, he begins travelling at .8 C, observer A sees observer B ship as 59.99 meters long, while observer B insists that his ship is still 100 meters long.
Where as B sees C moving over a long distance then A, but has taken longer to go because for B time is dilated.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Whitehound on 30/09/2010 18:38:27
Originally by: Belloch I never understood something when I listen to relativity.
If speed is a function of distance and time.. And the Speed of light is a constant.. Given that we've proven that as an object approaches the speed of light, Time slows for the person in that reference frame.. Which Speed of light is constant at that point? In other words which second does 186,282 miles per second apply to.. The seconds of the reference frame looking at the object approaching the speed of light, or the seconds of the object operating near the speed of light?
The speed of light is an absolute. In a world of relativity is it a theoretical value, which can only be approached but never reached. In other words, no matter how much time you spend on accelerating an object will the object never reach light speed. So it is neither the first nor the last second or any such thing. If you tried to accelerate a clock, one which measures its own time and while its speed approaches light speed, will it continue ticking and thereby be counting time, but never reach the speed of light.
The speed of light itself is then simply measured by taking the time it takes for a beam of light to travel through two points (from A to B if you will). --
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2010.09.30 18:58:00 -
[7]
What you need to understand is that space itself is also relative.
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edtheshed
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.09.30 19:25:00 -
[8]
one thing i find really cool is that for example:
if i am on a ship travelling 99.99% of the speed of light, if i were to try and run forward on the ship so i would be goin faster than the speed of light i wouldn't be able to because time has slowed down and i wouldn't be able to travel fast enough
that **** is sick
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.30 20:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: edtheshed one thing i find really cool is that for example:
if i am on a ship travelling 99.99% of the speed of light, if i were to try and run forward on the ship so i would be goin faster than the speed of light i wouldn't be able to because time has slowed down and i wouldn't be able to travel fast enough
that **** is sick
That's nothing!
Consider this variation of a the Ladder Paradox Specifically called the Bar and Ring Paradox.
Suppose we have a space ship 100 meters long at rest and a ring with a hole 59.99 meters in diameter at rest.
To an observer not moving relative to the ring. the ring is falling horizontally. While the space ship is moving at .8 C on a collision course with the ring.
Due to Lorentz Contraction the observer sees the space ship as 59.99 meters long. Thus the ship fits perfectly in the hole as the ring falls through.
Thus a 100 meter ship passed through a 59.99 meter hole.
But lets take it from the Pilot's prespective.
To the pilot the diameter of the hole is Lorentz contracted to 35.99 meters. His ship isn't even going to come close to fitting though the hole
Thanks to Relativity of Simultaneity. To the pilot, more distant events are occurring sooner then closer events
Thus to his view the further edge is further down then the closer edge.
To him the ring is falling at an angle!
He maintains speed, and the further edge drops right in front of his nose, he fly through and the closer edge falls behind his tail.
Thus the pilot and the observer both agree, the ship flew through the ring.
But neither side can agree just HOW it did it.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.30 23:36:00 -
[10]
5 Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
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Tyrano Creed
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Posted - 2010.10.01 06:01:00 -
[11]
Dark speed!
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Denaris Aschanna
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Posted - 2010.10.01 07:22:00 -
[12]
My head hurts...
Hyperspace FTW!
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.01 14:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Night Lost the speed of light is a reference point from a 'still' point where there is no movement in any direction. so if ur moving at the speed of light forward the speed of light forward is zero :)
There are so many things wrong with this post, I think it has to be a deliberate troll.
In answer to the OP, you observe the speed of light as being the same speed no matter what velocity you yourself are travelling. ____________________
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.01 14:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Night Lost the speed of light is a reference point from a 'still' point where there is no movement in any direction. so if ur moving at the speed of light forward the speed of light forward is zero :)
Dude, read up on relativity before you speak more nonsense. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.10.01 16:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Whitehound on 01/10/2010 16:22:03
Originally by: edtheshed one thing i find really cool is that for example:
if i am on a ship travelling 99.99% of the speed of light, if i were to try and run forward on the ship so i would be goin faster than the speed of light i wouldn't be able to because time has slowed down and i wouldn't be able to travel fast enough
that **** is sick
Not quite. It is actually your inertial mass that increases. The faster you travel the higher your inertial mass gets. At close to the speed of light will your inertial mass exceed that of a planet or a sun. You would not be able to get out of your chair, you could not move your arms or legs, etc. ...
If you would use a pendulum as your clock then the pendulum will swing slower and slower, because the pendulum's inertial mass increases as well. This is why we say that time is slowing down, too.
Or think of time and space as a medium like air for a minute. The faster a car or a plane travels, the more resistance the air around it builds up and the more energy (or horse power) you need to push through. Time and space is somewhat like this, only that it is not a matter, which prevents you from accelerating, but an energy field. --
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.01 17:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 01/10/2010 16:22:03
Originally by: edtheshed one thing i find really cool is that for example:
if i am on a ship travelling 99.99% of the speed of light, if i were to try and run forward on the ship so i would be goin faster than the speed of light i wouldn't be able to because time has slowed down and i wouldn't be able to travel fast enough
that **** is sick
Not quite. It is actually your inertial mass that increases. The faster you travel the higher your inertial mass gets. At close to the speed of light will your inertial mass exceed that of a planet or a sun. You would not be able to get out of your chair, you could not move your arms or legs, etc. ...
If you would use a pendulum as your clock then the pendulum will swing slower and slower, because the pendulum's inertial mass increases as well. This is why we say that time is slowing down, too.
Or think of time and space as a medium like air for a minute. The faster a car or a plane travels, the more resistance the air around it builds up and the more energy (or horse power) you need to push through. Time and space is somewhat like this, only that it is not a matter, which prevents you from accelerating, but an energy field.
While that is true, I believe he is referring to another case.
Suppose you have a ship traveling at .9 C relative to a planet. The ship fires a Railgun which propels a slug forwards at .9 relative to itself. The planet obviously won't see the slug traveling at 1.8 C (.9 C + .9 C). The Lorentz Transform shows that due to time dilation/length contraction.
given by the formula w = (u + v)/(1 + uv/c2)
w being observed speed, u being speed of the space ship, v being the speed of the slug, c being the speed of light.
As a result the observer on the planet records the slug going at .99 C, and not 1.8 C as we would approximate using non-relativistic formulas.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
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