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Kel Dario
Amarr Blue Sky Inc
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Posted - 2010.10.02 10:59:00 -
[1]
I never seen anyone fly a Prophecy who aint a noob, poor, or use AC's instead of lasers, until they can fly a proper ship.
So how 'bout switch out the old 'Medium Energy Capacitor use 5% per level'
to a '5% Medium Energy Turret rate of fire per level' while keeping the '5% resistances per...'.
I think it could make the relative useless Prophecy usefull by taking a bonus from the Armageddon without infringing on the Harbinger.
Obviously you will need a injector to keep guns running, or remote energy transfer or you be out cap very quickly and that way it be balanced.
Would it make the Prophecy more used, good even, or overpowered? What do you think?
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.10.02 11:06:00 -
[2]
all the tier 1 BC are crappy compared to their tier2 counterpart and i wouldnt mind a overall tier1 BC boost.
about your suggestion i thin a damage boost would more useful and also more inline with amarr ships like the abaddon
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.02 11:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 02/10/2010 11:19:00 I agree I love the Prophecy, Mallar and Punisher hull, but I would love a reason to fly them. A Dmg bonus or RoF bonus would be Aces!
Edit: IB4M to features and Idea!
-- Fine Mag's no Purple ok!
But I am the Snyper Queen!
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.10.02 11:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: TheMahdi on 02/10/2010 11:53:47
Originally by: 1600 RT all the tier 1 BC are crappy compared to their tier2 counterpart and i wouldnt mind a overall tier1 BC boost.
about your suggestion i thin a damage boost would more useful and also more inline with amarr ships like the abaddon
The Ferox, Brutix and Cyclone all have workable PvP fits.
Edit: And in some regards, they are comperable in performance to the T2. Shieldgank Blaster Brutix, Blaster-Neut Ferox, Crystal boosting Cyclone, etc. They fill certain roles that aren't exclusively outclassed by their T2 counterparts, the Gallante and Minmatar examples being the best examples. The Drake is still vastly superior to a Ferox in most use cases, but medium neut is nice to have in small gangs.
The Prophecy is outclassed in every way by the Harbinger except for being LOLbaitbrick.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.10.02 12:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: TheMahdi Edited by: TheMahdi on 02/10/2010 11:53:47
Originally by: 1600 RT all the tier 1 BC are crappy compared to their tier2 counterpart and i wouldnt mind a overall tier1 BC boost.
about your suggestion i thin a damage boost would more useful and also more inline with amarr ships like the abaddon
The Ferox, Brutix and Cyclone all have workable PvP fits.
Edit: And in some regards, they are comperable in performance to the T2. Shieldgank Blaster Brutix, Blaster-Neut Ferox, Crystal boosting Cyclone, etc. They fill certain roles that aren't exclusively outclassed by their T2 counterparts, the Gallante and Minmatar examples being the best examples. The Drake is still vastly superior to a Ferox in most use cases, but medium neut is nice to have in small gangs.
The Prophecy is outclassed in every way by the Harbinger except for being LOLbaitbrick.
the prophecy have workable fits too and it fits certain role that the harbinger cant fit. as you said the cyclone only shine if you invest almost a bil in implants because otherwise you just better passivetank it with a couple of LSE and in that case the prophecy do everything a cyclone can do but just better. if you like the ferox over a drake because it can fit a neut the prophecy can do the same thing. and the difference between a shield gank brutix and a shield gank myrm is very low the brutix will have 50more dps but it sacrifice more than 10k EHP and regarding the prophecy because people use it as a bait it doesnt mean you have to do the same the ship can have a good 400dps with a 85k EHP tank and a medium neut. not a reason to choose it over a harbinger but that its valid for all the others Tier1 BC they are just used because they are cheap and for the lol factor
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Kingwood
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.02 12:48:00 -
[6]
prophecy
You can fit it dual rep with FMP or ACs. Tanks fine with a Booster with some DPS and gets you fights because everyone thinks "Lol Prophecy".
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.10.02 13:24:00 -
[7]
I tried getting support for an Abbadonification of the Amarr line-up with Punisher, Maller and Prophecy getting the damage bonus and a ~10% increase in capacitor. But even with no real opposition it just never took off, my guess is that people have already come to terms with them being rather pointless as far as ship-choice goes
Originally by: Kingwood You can fit it dual rep with FMP or ACs. Tanks fine with a Booster with some DPS and gets you fights because everyone thinks "Lol Prophecy".
Just because you can make it work doesn't make it a good ship. Gets utterly demolished by anything with a neut and 3/5th brain .. been there, done that
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Kingwood
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.02 13:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I tried getting support for an Abbadonification of the Amarr line-up with Punisher, Maller and Prophecy getting the damage bonus and a ~10% increase in capacitor. But even with no real opposition it just never took off, my guess is that people have already come to terms with them being rather pointless as far as ship-choice goes
Originally by: Kingwood You can fit it dual rep with FMP or ACs. Tanks fine with a Booster with some DPS and gets you fights because everyone thinks "Lol Prophecy".
Just because you can make it work doesn't make it a good ship. Gets utterly demolished by anything with a neut and 3/5th brain .. been there, done that
I stated exactly what you said in your first sentence: You can make the Prophecy work somewhat with a dual-rep fit and you will get fights as everyone is out for an easy kill.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.10.02 14:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kingwood
I stated exactly what you said in your first sentence: You can make the Prophecy work somewhat with a dual-rep fit and you will get fights as everyone is out for an easy kill.
Anytime I see a Prophecy, the first thing that comes to my mind is "Lolbait", so I'd have to argue with the logic thinking it will be easy kill
It just means you'll be in a very subpar ship that your enemies think they would need to gank quickly before backup/blob arrives. Not a good thing for you! *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
General Trajan
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.10.02 15:52:00 -
[10]
my take on the prophecy hull is how it's outclassed by the harbinger in every way dps wise by a wide margin. i think that if the bonuses are to stay the same them i'm cool with that. however...........
what they should do is make it more like a BS just like how ccp put the description for this ship. so i say like the apoc! -give it 8 high slots. six for guns as is now and two optional utility/launcher slots. -75m3 drone bay for the use of 5-medium drones and 5-light drones.
would make it allot more versatile without pumpin up the dps too much! and i do think the abso and damn-damn should reflect the same changes as i've mentioned.
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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.02 15:55:00 -
[11]
Personally, one thing I'd like to see, if my history is correct, is for CCP to actually export it properly.
I seem to remember a post back in '05/'06 stating that the Proph was actually meant to be a bit longer and look quite sleek, rather than the fat pigeon it is now.
That's not saying it doesn't need a stats tweak, but model first plz :) --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.02 17:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Buzzmong Personally, one thing I'd like to see, if my history is correct, is for CCP to actually export it properly.
I seem to remember a post back in '05/'06 stating that the Proph was actually meant to be a bit longer and look quite sleek, rather than the fat pigeon it is now.
That's not saying it doesn't need a stats tweak, but model first plz :)
I kinda like the fat chicken look.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.02 17:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Templar Dane
I kinda like the fat chicken look.
Lazor Space Chicken = Best Space Chicken!
Or at least it should!
-- Fine Mag's no Purple ok!
But I am the Snyper Queen!
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.02 18:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Templar Dane
I kinda like the fat chicken look.
Lazor Space Chicken = Best Space Chicken!
Or at least it should!
Maybe some day we'll get a fix for omen/maller/punisher/prophecy.
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.10.02 19:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Templar Dane Maybe some day we'll get a fix for omen/maller/punisher/prophecy.
Then what'll I use as bait?
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.02 22:15:00 -
[16]
The 10% cap usage bonus on many amarr ships is a crippling disadvantage. It's a wasted bonus really as it serves no role in pvp and an extremely limited role in pve. I would support changing the 10% per level cap usage bonus to something else on all ships that have it. The abaddon is the model all amarr ships should use really. It's a cap eating monster with tons of buffer and average dps for it's class. The high capacitor usage is what *should* define amarr ships. They should be tough, slow bricks with huge drains on their cap. But with that heavy cap usage they can apply good damage at much greater ranges than the other racial ships.
So all that said, every gunboat should have a 5% RoF or damage bonus per level IMHO. Without that, it encourages things like the ever popular autocannon punisher. Energy turrets do have advantages over the other types, but generally those advantages are outweighed by disadvantages unless the ship gives a bonus of some sort to them. Cap usage is a void bonus as you could use AC's instead without sacrificing much range or damage and use no cap at all.
On a related note, the tier 1 BC's (ignoring the prophecy) really aren't that bad. The blaster ferox is an incredibly cost effective ship. It's one of my favorites as an FCing ship. It's almost as tough as a drake, does the same dps (shorter ranged), can fit a gang link easily and never gets primaried. It has half the price of a drake with at least 3/4th's the performance. Make no mistake, it is inferior but when you factor in cost, it's a very sexy ship. The same is true of the shield gank brutix and even the cyclone with a crystal set has some interesting tricks in a small fight.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2010.10.02 22:23:00 -
[17]
[Prophecy, Fun Times] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x5
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.02 23:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Templar Dane on 02/10/2010 23:14:22
Originally by: Lindsay Logan [Prophecy, Fun Times] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x5
The funny thing is that you can do better than that in a laser brutix.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.03 01:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I tried getting support for an Abbadonification of the Amarr line-up with Punisher, Maller and Prophecy getting the damage bonus and a ~10% increase in capacitor. But even with no real opposition it just never took off, my guess is that people have already come to terms with them being rather pointless as far as ship-choice goes
Originally by: Kingwood You can fit it dual rep with FMP or ACs. Tanks fine with a Booster with some DPS and gets you fights because everyone thinks "Lol Prophecy".
Just because you can make it work doesn't make it a good ship. Gets utterly demolished by anything with a neut and 3/5th brain .. been there, done that
You didn't just have no opposition - you had quite a bit of support too. Wish we'd see the end of the ship tier system - I want a good Ferox.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.10.03 03:12:00 -
[20]
The problem with the amarr sub bs lineup and to a greater extent the rest of the t1 ships in the game is the completely outdated tier system.
CCP needs to drop it and then go over each races t1 ship and give it a defined role so that even a 40 mil sp pvp character might choose it over its t2 counterpart and actually be effective vs flying the t2 varient. Or better yet that 3 month old player who is really cool and talented but alas simply can't fly the normal t2 ships can jump in an executioner and be an effective tackler instead of the lol pops in seconds or caps out in seconds result if they try to fit it for a normal tackling role.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.03 09:54:00 -
[21]
I've love to see hte buritx with a 7.5% tracking bonus per levle instead of amrour repair amount
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Botrias Pirabus
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Posted - 2010.10.03 12:47:00 -
[22]
The way I've always seen certain Amarr ships, based upon bits of fluff, is certainly not quite reflected in the ships themselves due to that tiering system.
Executioner - baby wanna-be interceptor. Lightly armed, fast and nimble. Meant to catch and whittle down other frigs while being agile enough to be a pain to hit, even with frig weapons. Instead, it's just a weaker punisher, or an upgunned imparior.
Omen - backbone, 'jack of all trades' cruiser. Barring real logistics or ew work, it should be able to do 'okay' in any amarr-cruiser job. She's just not up to snuff on that. I got out of my Omen as fast as I could because of that. (When she blew up, I just got a Maller, which was superior in every realistic way...doesn't have that single launcher, but that one launcher isn't really worth much. Defenders? Ugh.)
Prophecy - This should have truely been my bread and butter ship since I love me some tank, and she's got the same tanking bonus as the Abaddon. Instead, anything she can do, the Harbinger can do better, due to more slots, more cpu, more grid. And it holds more drones, and carries more cargo. I do believe it's also got better cap, and better base armor hp. This combination of inferiority makes the Prophecy far from being the 'tanking BC' and makes it more of the 'piece of junk that I wish worked right.'
Frankly, I wish something would be done to make Amarr less dependant on t2 outside of the Geddon, Apoc, and Abby. Hell, I think those three ships should be the core templates of all amarr classes to some degree. Maybe not the geddon as a core template...but that's up in the air for me.
Re: the original suggestion...I really don't want to see the Proph, with it's craptastic capacitor, get a rate of fire increase to replace her cap use reduction. Increasing her cap use would only be viable in buffer-based PvP, crippling her already somewhat shaky ability to maintain an active tank with much else going on.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.10.04 00:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain I've love to see hte buritx with a 7.5% tracking bonus per levle instead of amrour repair amount
EXACTLY
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.04 06:58:00 -
[24]
not all ships are created equal. There are reasons to use the phroph - price being one of them. Its a cheap way to field a lot of new players on the field with little to no isk loss.
Also, to design ships based on battleships is counter to how eve developed - we started with the frigs, and the rest of the ships mirror those initial design philosophies - the exec is not a smaller, weaker Punisher - its different, and cheaper. Just because the economy has come to a point where punishers are cheap does not mean the price difference was not important back in theday. The exec is also a great prectise ship for the crusaider - while the punisher is not.
just saying. . . -----------
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EFT Worrier
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Posted - 2010.10.04 08:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
You didn't just have no opposition - you had quite a bit of support too. Wish we'd see the end of the ship tier system - I want a good Ferox.
Thoroughly agree. The tiers-as-progression system is a fossil from the past that should have been thrown out long ago. There should simply be different ships within each class and each ship should be roughly comparable in overall power.
The Brutix and Prophecy are 2 of my favourite hulls in the game, but I never fly them because for 10-15 mill more i can fly the tier2 versions, which are far superior. It's a stupid system.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.04 12:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zeba The problem with the amarr sub bs lineup and to a greater extent the rest of the t1 ships in the game is the completely outdated tier system.
CCP needs to drop it and then go over each races t1 ship and give it a defined role so that even a 40 mil sp pvp character might choose it over its t2 counterpart and actually be effective vs flying the t2 varient. Or better yet that 3 month old player who is really cool and talented but alas simply can't fly the normal t2 ships can jump in an executioner and be an effective tackler instead of the lol pops in seconds or caps out in seconds result if they try to fit it for a normal tackling role.
That's only part of the problem. In their own class RIGHT NOW they are utter crap, compared to the competition. If you give everything more slots/fitting/etc and improve everything equally...they'll be better but still crap when you compare to the competition.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: TheMahdi on 04/10/2010 13:13:45
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain I've love to see hte buritx with a 7.5% tracking bonus per levle instead of amrour repair amount
GTFO OF HERE WITH YOUR REASONABLE SUGGESTIONS!
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: TheMahdi The Ferox, Brutix and Cyclone all have workable PvP fits.
Cyclone is good, but the rest are all rubbish. Yeah you can make something "work"... badly. Then again you can just get a hurricane instead.
General tier 1 bc boost would make most sense imo, with care taken not to make cyclone overpowered. As it stands, boosting just the prophecy would be wrong. Brutix and ferox are just as useless or semi useless. Picking them instead of hurric- excuse me, instead of a tier 2 bc is mostly done "for the lulz" and not for any practical reason.
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Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:54:00 -
[29]
Would love a better bonus on the Prophecy. Tracking bonus could be interesting on it.
I really dislike the cap bonuses, its what ruins the Covert Legion too :(
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