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Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians Iberians.
29
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ms Kat wrote:Dave stark wrote:let's look at some examples of games that have gone/are going f2p.
ddo (dungeons and dragons online) swtor (starwars something or other)
common factor; they're terrible. Hate to let you in on a secret... EVE isnt doing so well at the moment For what I know, is the only MMO which player base is increasing even if it is a sub game. Even WoW has lost a lot of players lately (although they will gain a lot more when the pandas will be out)
F2P won't attract WoW players, since WoW is the anthitesis to f2p. In fact, in EVE you can play for free considering you know what you are doing and you farm your sub.
WoW is the only MMO which you must pay to play. And will keep being so.
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Ms Kat
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xinlisupreme wrote:What are you talking about? EVE is doing just fine.
F2P is a bad idea though. brb, making 500 market, research and manufacturing alts.
I remember the days when you would see 50-55k people online, now 20-35 whats a large chunk gone. Before you say "summer" etc etc that reasoning has already been tossed about alot, and yet ccp are still trying to push the game harder then a smak dealer on a shaded corner. cheep plex's dropping sub fee's etc |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
I guess you played another game when you saw those numbers, because Eve definitely never had those. |
teh ubernesstrader
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
lets be honest eve has done just fine all these years, its one of the big games that is still going unlike many others that have flopped or died to death.
for those people who cant pay the subs normally have time to play and so u can buy a plex with in game cash, i mean normally the people outa work.
its not alot to pay per month if u think about it, a new game costs -ú40 or more these days and tbh ive been playing eve on my main since 2007 i have never played a game so long so its done me proud.
i could easily go through a new game every month or so
on the upside, whilst CCP are getting cash they will keep updating and working on the game, improving the graphics, implimenting new things to do and giving up new shiney ships or mods to play with, with no funding ( F2P ) why on earth would they bother, would you work for free ?
its a community at the end of the day and we all play a part in making eve what it is and keeping it fun and interesting.
besides if u introduced pay to win stuff what good would it be ..... eve is essentially a team game i dont care how bling bling ur ship is ..... if u got 10 normal guys attacking you, you will go boom.
thats my thoughts anyways
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Draugo Rana
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
1
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
The term F2P is very misleading because it is just a trending name for various different business models. Very few things in life are free, and MMO entertainment is not one of them.
There is NO such thing as free-to-play, you always pay, one way or the other. Game publishers are not there to entertain you, they are there to make money and someone needs to pay the bills. So they realized that for some gamer demographics, it is very intimidating to commit to paying X amount of $$$ per period of subscription and may be a big barrier to entry. So they came up with few alternative business models, all under the general term of "Free 2 Play". Why? Because F2P sounds greats, it makes you think you are getting something for nothing, great value!
But this is also why F2P is so annoying, because it is basically just mostly false advertising. You still pay, the only question you can ask as an individual player is whether you pay more or less for the value you expect to receive with the alternative business model (aka F2P). If this is better than shelling out $15 per month, then it may work for you.
Some business models make you pay with your time and attention, like by watching ads. Others make you provide them with your personal details and preferences, which they can turn to profit (like many browser and casual games).
Some give you a free limited game and make you buy game addons and in game items to really be able to enjoy the game (like LOTRO). This is just a "glorified trial" model and one of the most annoying ones. To really achieve anything in the game you will probably pay more than what you would with traditional model. 20% of paying customers support the 80% who are really getting a crippled game for "free". And everyone gets to be constantly, and usually not very gently, reminded about the "great offers" and sales they are missing.
There are games that carefully calculate the costs of running MMO servers for X period of time and roll them into the initial high price of the game and supplement this by expansions and addons. Like Guild Wars or Diablo. They minimize server costs and free content updates and use the term F2P as a marketing advantage to sell more copies of the game.
Even those players in EVE who think they beat the system by paying the game subscription using in game currency are not really playing for free as they like to think. They just traded one type of labor (using the time for RL job or business) with another ("working" in game for those 450+ mil ISK). Granted, the "work" in game may be more enjoyable for some people and for others, even more profitable (doubtful for most people with semi decent job) but you sill PAY.
Personally, I just prefer to click a checkbox to enable subscription and forget about it. Then use the little time I have left for entertainment for well, you know, being entertained and having fun, not having to worry about ads, micro transactions or paying bills. But that's just me.
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
724
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
I read the same article and one and one noteworthy thing about these MMOs is the general design and theme they have in common with WoW, which has already adopted a F2P or a trial that never ends.
EVE already has its version of F2P so I don't see the necessity to introduce another model.
I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
348
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ms Kat wrote:Dave stark wrote:let's look at some examples of games that have gone/are going f2p.
ddo (dungeons and dragons online) swtor (starwars something or other)
common factor; they're terrible. Hate to let you in on a secret... EVE isnt doing so well at the moment
nor is wow, they are below 10m subscribers! the game is dying.
get the **** out of here with your stupidity. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
42
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Posted - 2012.08.02 09:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:I guess you played another game when you saw those numbers, because Eve definitely never had those.
Of course they did. At peek times 50k was common before incursions.
As for some of the other free to play games, Dungeons and Dragons Online is a financial super success, easily one of the most popular games on the internet today if you take World of Warcraft out of the equation and it became a success BECAUSE of F2P, a subscription model it was failing.
F2P with microtransactions is an extremly attractive concept to the average non gamer because it allows them to play the game without paying and when they get into it, choose their own level of purchase. Games like Dungeons and Dragons Online in particular have done well because they keep their content extremly cheap, most people think nothing of spending 2 dollars on some new dungeon content, or 20 bucks for some pack. Games that show up on Steam do even better, look at mega success like Age of Empires Online which made more money in the first week as an online game than any game on Steam in its history.
The evidence of the success of F2P with microtransaction is undeniable.
Despite that, a game has to be setup for it mechanically and Eve is not. It simply can't work in Eve and not just because of the mecahnics and design (though there is no question that this is a major reason we will never see it) but as a comunity Eve players have rejected microtransactions by and large, though even on this forum in this discussion coming from people who oppose Eve as free to play their are people with monicles which proves that even a stupid digital eye piece for their avatar is worth spending money on. |
Lexmana
638
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Posted - 2012.08.02 09:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Derp |
namron 7
1-800-FUBAR
89
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Posted - 2012.08.02 10:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
(Karn Dulake Stand in)
If this game went free to play an army of basement dwellers would converge on CCP headquarters with flaming torches
and even throwing CCP punky covered in peanut butter and honey at them would not stop the slaughter Thanks for the help |
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Siobhan MacLeary
BRG Corp Acquisition Of Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.08.02 10:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:^^What they said.^^ There is no bloody way EVE could ever work as F2P/P2W, and the utter travesty that would result from trying wouldn't last long. And it would die noisily and messily. CCP knows this*, which is why they are going that way in a totally separate (aside from shared-universe) game that's not even ported to PC. Console-twitch-kiddies may be willing and all too pathetically eager to swallow that P2W-bilge --on their parents' dime, 'natch!-- but we are far too mature and smart for that. (Well, theoretically, anyway ) And EVE, warts and all, is far too good for that. Proof: If you're not familiar with it, then Google "EVE Summer of Rage," or similar, and look on EVE-search at some of the old forum-threads regarding that utter debacle.(/Sadface) Bad, seriously bad time, that, and the travesty that is the NEx store still staring at us in station every bloody time we dock... *At least, I bloody well hope they do...Their possible attempt to go mainstream again --because that worked so well the last time!-- by handing carebears their safety on a platter in hisec does not bode well, IMHO. E: I note that you created that character less than 2 weeks before the Incarna expansion hit, OP --assuming that this is your first, and not an alt, then do some reading, you'll find that some of what you might have seen last summer will have context and meaning for you --As it must have, for a newbie, felt like stepping into a madhouse where the inmates had already killed the staff and were running the place (like that's such a radical change, though ).
Yes, this is my main, thank you for asking - I started playing the game and nearly immediately moved into a wormhole, so I didn't really keep up with Incarna and the drama surrounding it.
The thing I don't think you realize is that F2P and P2W aren't always synonymous, though they frequently are so due to poor decision making on the part of the developers. I'd go into this more but it's stupid late here.
Mocktar Olachenko wrote:Eve is F2P, if you know what you're doing.
Cheekiness aside, I really don't see how a true F2P model could work. The PLEX model as is is pretty damn good and is as close as we should ever get.
Ah, yes, but that does require some rather heroic (IMO) effort.
Ms Kat wrote:a couple of ways instantly spring to mind....
Limit SP gained per hour - then have uncapped with "premium accounts"
Limit trading
Limit mineing
Limit missioning
Limit standing gains..
Offer SP in a cash shop, ship skins, standings resets, name changes, clothes, title, Limited ships, maybe even sell faction standins
Just all ideas which popped into head as writing not though given, but any game can support F2P
Yes, these also occurred to me, but then I thought...damn, playing EVE would suck, then.
By the way, I'm not advocating EVE going F2P nor am I complaining about the subscription - I only recently got a minimum wage job and I still have managed to pay my sub every month since I decided to subscribe.
I definitely do agree with all of you who have said that EVE going F2P would be terrible and that even if it did, the game itself isn't designed in a way that really supports it without placing painfully arbitrary limits on gameplay.
And like I said before, I am sorry for reopening this can of worms. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
154
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Posted - 2012.08.02 11:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
I pay my sub cus it's worth it personally to me :/ If it was free-to-play, it would have to be pay-to-win.
That would be sh*te and i'd cancel both my accounts.
(Apology accepted, please shut the can and never speak of this evil again.) The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2012.08.02 11:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Plex is free for someone so if you only use plex then yes it's free to play from a certain point of view (the buyer) though not from a sellers point of view.
Plex also has a limited supply. If nobody bought plex to sell in game then all of your alts playing the game on plex would have to become paying subs.
This is a note for everybody that plays only one account and hates the players that have multiple accounts. You enable their game play if you buy plex. So stop buying plex. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
816
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Posted - 2012.08.02 12:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
FtP Eve ? No, please. I'm reading other articles on FtP as well and I shiver in fear at the thought of the possibility of things such as "golden ammunition" and the "I Win Button because I PAID for it". Oh hell no. Seriouly, FtP would kill Eve, for me at least. Let it never be so.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/good-riddance-the-death-of-online-gamings-monthly-subscription-model/
Whatever that's worth, an indication of how "other" MMO's are going F2P. I pray to all deities this never happens to Eve.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Garresh
Opposite of Low
16
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Posted - 2012.08.02 12:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Absolutely not, and I'll tell you why. The success of F2P is based on the idea of extremely low barrier of entry. All you do is download it, give it a whirl, and once you start having fun you become a long term player. After that happens, you start doing micro-transactions to enhance your experience somewhere down the road.
This doesn't work with eve becase:
A. Even if EvE had a low financial barrier of entry, it's a game with an extremely high skill and knowledge barrier. Even players who think they're having fun in eve aren't actually playing for real until about 2-3 months in. They're still in that honeymoon period where everything is new and they don't really get it all yet.
B.Almost all F2P games incorporate some element of pay 2 win. Eve *already* has this in the form of Plex, which means that further financial investments might not pay nearly as much given the massive proliferation of alts. So this severely limits any potential revenue from these sources of income, and would actually in all likelihood result in a loss of wealth when they made the switch.(Note that I don't have a problem with Plex, but that's because the Pay2Win element works in reverse as well)
C. Regardless of any of these changes, the player base is FIERCELY defensive of what they believe Eve to be. I actually left for about 6 months after Monoclegate because I was depressed at the idea of Eve turning into something else that was not in the spirit of eve. Eve already has huge issues gathering new players. Any change that violates the spirit of eve in the eyes of the community is a death sentence. Eve will never recover. Even now, it feels like many of the former bloggers and power players in eve have abandoned ship after monoclegate. Eve Online cannot handle the stress of the loss of their community. At the end of the day, it's really the only thing that truly sets eve apart. The sandbox mechanics are just a vessel for that community spirit.
On a different note, almost all F2P games are exploitive by nature. The only F2P game I am completely comfortable with playing is DoTA 2, because 100% of all freemium content is cosmetic. There are no combat-affecting items. |
Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
57
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Posted - 2012.08.02 12:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t. |
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
44
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hiyora Akachi wrote:If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t.
Buy PLEX with cash, sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best ships and equipment for ISK.
The very definition of buying an unfair advantage.
Just saying. |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
With PLEX eve is truly a F2P game. Absolute best model. Those other F2P models will basically destroy the MMO gaming market. They are producing vapid fluff. I can't wait until the F2P angry birds online MMO releases. Problem is some jackass will buy it for 50 billion and then have to write it all off 6 months later. Bankers giggling in glee the whole time :) Allocate resources to FiS |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4378
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kryss Darkdust wrote:Hiyora Akachi wrote:If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t. Buy PLEX with cash, sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best ships and honour tank for ISK. The very definition of buying an unfair advantage. Just saying.
FYP Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
41
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ehhhh, You really couldent make eve f2p |
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Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
37
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Go away with your cheap ftp ideologies. F2p has no place in EVE. It belongs in substandard games. |
Metal Icarus
Minmatar Defence Force
231
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
It probibly could if they sold ship patterns for cash... or aur....
Know what? I WOULD buy a new paint job for my pve boat just because it would make it more interesting.
Could they make a profit from ppl buying paintjobs? IDK.... |
Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
5
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
If EVE went F2P it would be swarmed with alts IMHO. |
Anubis Star
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
F2P wouldnt be too bad, if P2W would not come. Some big Games showed that this is possible, but it would really be hard to implement this in Eve, honestly I believe this would take them some years to really get a working concept of F2P and not P2W. If they would manage this, why not? But it's just not worth the work. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
38
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Posted - 2012.08.02 14:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
I would rather double sub costs and gladly pay more to keep the production going and not have f2p. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
209
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
EVE is already Free to play. If you are good enough in game to amass the ISK needed to buy PLEX, you can play for free. Likewise, you can pay RL money to get visual perks (the clothing store) and in-game advantages (ISK from selling a PLEX).
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
38
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
time is not free o.o eve is not f2p PLEX is not free, it costs something. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
96
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Most F2P games are just "extended trials" anyways... you can't really do anything unless you either sub and become a *Premium Member*, or unlock parts of the game a la carte style (like the LOTRO model)
Really all they would need to do is remove the time limit on the trial, perhaps add more restrictions to it, and they'd have a F2P game.
But, if they did do that, the stigma attached to calling something "Free to Play" would end up ruining the game. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
174
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:Ms Kat wrote:Dave stark wrote:let's look at some examples of games that have gone/are going f2p.
ddo (dungeons and dragons online) swtor (starwars something or other)
common factor; they're terrible. Hate to let you in on a secret... EVE isnt doing so well at the moment For what I know, is the only MMO which player base is increasing even if it is a sub game. Even WoW has lost a lot of players lately (although they will gain a lot more when the pandas will be out) F2P won't attract WoW players, since WoW is the anthitesis to f2p. In fact, in EVE you can play for free considering you know what you are doing and you farm your sub. WoW is the only MMO which you must pay to play. And will keep being so.
False. So is Diablo 3.
See what I did here? |
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
116
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:I guess you played another game when you saw those numbers, because Eve definitely never had those.
guess you were playing another game before incarna came out or you would have remembered the news when Tranquility was breaking record "concurrent users" records. We were pushing toward a 60k milestone and 40-45k would be online any any given moment. |
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