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Sebastiann Kane
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Posted - 2010.10.06 21:03:00 -
[1]
(Before i start i just want to say that i am opposed to it)
Is the real reason that people do not want skill points to be purchasable with plex is because we had to wait for a hell of a long time before we could fly our favourite ships with elite core skills and perfect gunnery/ship skills and we will be damned if anyone else can get around that by buying millions of skill points it took us years to amass?
Although we all dislike the idea i must admit that if i was offered a one off chance to buy 10 million skill points for $100 i would be reaching for the credit card and so would a hell of a lot of vocal people i know. One of the big hooks of this game is that we are always waiting for the next thing to train as it will just get us a little bit further towards our goals so ten million SP would go a long way towards that.
Lastly if it did happen then the WOW crowd could arrived on mass. We could see week old characters with 50 million skill points provided by daddy's credit card flying a tech III cruiser in lowsec which had been badly fitted and flown by a player who did not know what he was doing. When this happens all our birthdays would have come at once and even the biggest carebear will be strapping on the guns.
Your valuable thoughts please
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Arakash Mond
Amarr Kings In The Back Row
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Posted - 2010.10.06 21:54:00 -
[2]
I think what you just described is called a first person shooter. Albeit an expensive one. I won't be there thats for sure.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Arakash Mond I think what you just described is called a first person shooter. Albeit an expensive one. I won't be there thats for sure.
agreed
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sebastiann Kane
Lastly if it did happen then the WOW crowd could arrived on mass. We could see week old characters with 50 million skill points provided by daddy's credit card flying a tech III cruiser in lowsec which had been badly fitted and flown by a player who did not know what he was doing. When this happens all our birthdays would have come at once and even the biggest carebear will be strapping on the guns.
Your valuable thoughts please
And after that how long do you think it will be before CCP introduces instanced missions and no loot drops from player ships so that the "daddy's money" crowd doesn't drop out of the game en-masse because their "I paid for this with real money" stuff isn't safe from being ganked and stolen?
Unfortunately, cliche as it might be, I really do think Eve is dying this time. At least Eve as we know it. --Vel
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Dust Civire
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:38:00 -
[5]
I'm opposed to it. I'm a pretty new player, but I feel like a tremendous aspect of the game is the outside skill-planning, thinking ahead, and all of that, that only can happen because of long skills, as inconvenient as they might seem. Take that away, even if only for those who pay money, and it cheapens everything.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:40:00 -
[6]
Hey, so... where did they say you could whip out your CCD and buy 10 mil SP?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Sebastiann Kane
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dust Civire I'm opposed to it. I'm a pretty new player, but I feel like a tremendous aspect of the game is the outside skill-planning, thinking ahead, and all of that, that only can happen because of long skills, as inconvenient as they might seem. Take that away, even if only for those who pay money, and it cheapens everything.
Im with you on this. The one thing about EVE is that you have to take baby steps to play the game properly otherwise it can get very expensive quickly. I recently saw an old carebear player lose a battleship in a level 4 mission. it was the first solo mission he had ever run and had gained standings on the back of someone else. It would never have happened if he had worked his way up through the ranks first.
Skill points are great, but experience is everything.
Good luck to you buddy and get those core skills learned
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Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
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Posted - 2010.10.07 01:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Hey, so... where did they say you could whip out your CCD and buy 10 mil SP?
-Liang
With you on this. Remap for PLEX, mentioned, SP for PLEX, pulled out of someone's ass. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.10.07 01:56:00 -
[9]
I hope CCP offers pilots with all skills at V for $3,000 US someday.
The "skill point totals don't matter" deludedvets would be the FIRST ones to ragequit. It would be beautiful.
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Forum Guy
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Posted - 2010.10.07 02:29:00 -
[10]
I'm against that idea of course, as I'm against any micro-transaction that gives an unfair advantage within the game. Which is why I'm against the re-map for plex idea too.
I think they ruin the game too because all it means is the one with the most real-life currency to waste wins.
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spoon reaver
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Posted - 2010.10.07 05:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Forum Guy I'm against that idea of course, as I'm against any micro-transaction that gives an unfair advantage within the game. Which is why I'm against the re-map for plex idea too.
I think they ruin the game too because all it means is the one with the most real-life currency to waste wins.
how do you win "eve"
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Nolan McNamara
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Posted - 2010.10.07 05:59:00 -
[12]
You already can buy skillpoints. It's called the Character Bazaar.
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Nullity
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nullity on 07/10/2010 06:04:25
Originally by: Nolan McNamara You already can buy skillpoints. It's called the Character Bazaar.
Those skillpoints were obtained through normal, in-game means. They weren't spawned into the game because of an out-of-game monetary transaction.
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph I hope CCP offers pilots with all skills at V for $3,000 US someday.
The "skill point totals don't matter" deludedvets would be the FIRST ones to ragequit. It would be beautiful.
No one has ever said "skill point totals don't matter". And if they have, they're idiots. They matter, but they don't matter as much as ISK and personal player skill. That's been very clear since the beginning of EVE. Adding an option to buy skillpoints though, would indeed be game-breaking.
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Andy Deckard
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nullity Those skillpoints were obtained through normal, in-game means. They weren't spawned into the game because of an out-of-game monetary transaction.
It amounts to exactly the same thing, though. You can buy skillpoints that you did not obtain yourself.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Andy Deckard
Originally by: Nullity Those skillpoints were obtained through normal, in-game means. They weren't spawned into the game because of an out-of-game monetary transaction.
It amounts to exactly the same thing, though. You can buy skillpoints that you did not obtain yourself.
but skillpoints are neither created nor destroyed (blah blah biomass blah blah i know)
its like plex - each month you play is 15 quid for ccp no matter if you pay via isk or rl money.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails so i'm pretty much anti cat at the moment (lol)
x
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Nolan McNamara
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:18:00 -
[16]
To be clear, I'm not in favor of having an option to pay real money for skillpoints. All I'm doing is pointing out that it's already possible to do it. Either buy a lot of PLEX and sell them, grind isk, or buy isk from ebay or some such and you get free skillpoints via the Character Bazaar.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nullity
Originally by: Nolan McNamara You already can buy skillpoints. It's called the Character Bazaar.
Those skillpoints were obtained through normal, in-game means. They weren't spawned into the game because of an out-of-game monetary transaction.
It is disingenuous to claim that buying a character is not buying SP. One day you have a single character with 20M SP on your account, the next day you have 40M SP in your account. Buying a character is the worst example of gaining in-game advantage by spending dollars or ISK, the only way to beat that would be to transfer the SP directly into the character you already had on the account.
As for skill point totals, once you have all the electronics, small projectile, gunnery support, engineering, mechanic, navigation skills up to 5, there's not much else you can do in order to fly that rifter better. Extra SP invested in ECM, trade or industry won't help you. Alternately, once you've got your trade skills up to 5, with 7.0 standings with Caldari Navy, there's not much more you can do to gain an advantage in Jita 4-4 station trading.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Nullity
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Nullity
Originally by: Nolan McNamara You already can buy skillpoints. It's called the Character Bazaar.
Those skillpoints were obtained through normal, in-game means. They weren't spawned into the game because of an out-of-game monetary transaction.
It is disingenuous to claim that buying a character is not buying SP. One day you have a single character with 20M SP on your account, the next day you have 40M SP in your account. Buying a character is the worst example of gaining in-game advantage by spending dollars or ISK, the only way to beat that would be to transfer the SP directly into the character you already had on the account.
Did I say it's not buying SP? No. All I said was the major difference is those SPs weren't spawned into the game. That makes all the difference to me.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.10.07 07:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nullity Did I say it's not buying SP? No. All I said was the major difference is those SPs weren't spawned into the game. That makes all the difference to me.
The SP are spawned into the account - the fact that they existed elsewhere in the game prior to the event is irrelevant. Most of the characters that I have seen being sold/bought were going to be biomassed or unsubbed anyway: the SP would have gone dark, but instead were added to some unrelated person's account.
I agree with you that SP trained into a character which is later sold aren't simply spawned into the game - someone made decisions about where to invest those SP, and those decisions impacted the sale value of that character.
I just disagree with you about the difference between SP being spawned out of "thin air" versus SP being bought in the form of a character, when it comes to the effect on a player's presence in the game. To me they're the same: they're SP that a player now has added to their account. In terms of expanding a player's capacity within the game, there is no difference between buying a carrier pilot from the Bazaar versus creating a new character which - with bought SP - five minutes later can suddenly fly a carrier.
Addressing the issue of how the SP came into the game, on one hand someone spent (in real or second hand money) a couple of months subscription plus the character transfer fee. On the other hand someone spent the equivalent amount in "store bought SP fees". The character that had been sitting in a hangar for a few months training skills represents the same amount of SP that had no effect on the game, but it also represents the will of some player to generate the character and cook it. That there aren't many people engaging in the precooked character trade meas that those SP are valuable if cooked properly.
Thus what it boils down to, from my point of view, is that only allowing SP to be bought in the form of precooked characters and not providing any means to transfer or rearrange SP, enforces scarcity of supply.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.10.07 07:36:00 -
[20]
Ah, you have no idea actually.
I got a char with almost 500k SP to be redistributed as I want but I want to keep those SP's as a something unique and rare.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:38:00 -
[21]
And another threadnaught begins.
I enjoy the fact that I now have a little more control with the boring waiting game called EVE, its just input skill and wait where as in any other MMO I can determine how fast I want to reach the destination (normally I enjoy the slow trip, but EVE feels like someone is holding you back). EVE's mix/match skill attributes is always a loosing game because trying to increase one area to save a few weeks pushes the other mixed attributes back just as long. I am betting that most characters will use one extra remap once that intel/mem for basics, perc/will for ships/guns/missiles, and your now ready for that third for Will/Perc for T2 or odd ball mixed stats like Command ships (links need charisma) or Drones with Mem/Perc. At most, it will save a month or so on 1.5 year plans from scratch. Once that is done, do you really need to remap again when you cross train to another race? On a positive side, You might see an upsurge in combat because players are not having to wait one year for the next free one, which could lead to increase in ship destruction and a stealth buff to industry by in increase in demand for production goods.
And be smug in the fact that you the veteran will get more KMs from the clueless or the smart player who planed it out will not have to spend extra isk/RL cash to fix a screw up. I know I did and after spending so long in highsec flying +5s (main) trying to get the damn basics out the way uninterrupted (you know, the EVE combat that relys on broken active tank skills of +cap and +rep cycle with buffers being the norm while relying on that stupid crutch called a DCUII and combat lasting about 4 seconds from ship to pod destruction) I was nearly ready to throw in the towel with EVE. Remaps may not affect you the veteran, but for me CCP will be keeping a customer + alt.
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Grukar
Amarr Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate On the Rocks
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:39:00 -
[22]
I'd rather see a way to save the SP from characters in the biomass queue and give them to another character on the account. Would make getting rid of a ****ty name much easier.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Forum Guy I'm against that idea of course, as I'm against any micro-transaction that gives an unfair advantage within the game. Which is why I'm against the re-map for plex idea too.
I think they ruin the game too because all it means is the one with the most real-life currency to waste wins.
Not really. What will be the effect of remapping every time you change skill? +600 skill point/hour against a base of 2.400 for a well rounded character with implants and leaning skills?
A full 25% bonus on training speed for a plex every fee weeks. Wow, it will really (not) break the game.
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Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:51:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Zagdul on 07/10/2010 08:56:21
Quote: One of the big hooks of this game is that we are always waiting for the next thing to train as it will just get us a little bit further towards our goals so ten million SP would go a long way towards that.
You've answered your own question why RL ISK =/= SP ever.
Hearing "Skill Training Complete" is one of the greatest draws to playing EVE online and keeping a stable player base. It keeps customers forking out money day in and day out. By releasing a transaction model where SP can be flat out purchased, you lose your steady, predictable income from EVE. You make EVE "Insta Gratification in Space Online" and no longer EVE.
Instead of players paying for their character over the course of a year, or 5... They login, drop $3000 on SP for a character, find out the game has a curve to it, then quit. EVE loses their retain-able players.
I don't doubt that possibly one day we'll see a PLEX for skill remapping. I am a firm believer that this will be implemented some day. However, this doesn't "speed" up the process of people getting ahead in the game. You've already spent the time on the skill points, you just made a mistake of where you really wanted them.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 07/10/2010 09:00:41 I think EVE players are proud of having 'mastered' the steep learning cliff (personally I can't see that cliff) and thus the community mostly sticks around for while, the turnover in players is relatively low. You don't have that many now-noaaw-noooAAAWWWWW! kids hanging around and getting their fix for the day. It's just too boring for them. Thus EVE seems to be a bit more mature and laid back (my pov).
If you're able to progress 'too' fast to the 'endgame' (whatever that is depends on the pov of the one asked though) you'll invite another type of player to eve, that most of the actual population (I guess) doesn't really want around.. Buying a char on the bazaar and using his skillset is a means for some to achieve the goals they set to themselfes faster and now. It's also possible for some of those 'endgame-now' types, but with one distinction.. errors are costly and probably cause them to loose the fun. This offer is limited though.
And now to the catch: If the broad playerbase will be able to buy SP for isk/PLEX/whatever we might see a new part of the community vocalizing their wishes up on the older part of the community and changing Eve. That is what I personally fear. I wouldn't want this to happen and I'm pretty positive CCP is keeping the balance. Though some feedback from us from time to time is always good and healthy.. so, yeah. Keep those posts about it coming. Can't be bad.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.07 09:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph I hope CCP offers pilots with all skills at V for $3,000 US someday.
The "skill point totals don't matter" deludedvets would be the FIRST ones to ragequit. It would be beautiful.
hi there, 2003 deludedvet here. I would enjoy said ragequits, altho from said people who bought all 5's for 3000$.
I can already see it blowing up a titan in lowsec from a guy with like 1 month. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.10.07 09:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zagdul ... [Paid-for at-will neural remapping] doesn't "speed" up the process of people getting ahead in the game. You've already spent the time on the skill points, you just made a mistake of where you really wanted them.
I'll second what Zagdul said. It's been said before and it'll be said again: remaps on-demand will only help you get to particular milestones in a training plan sooner, they will not create SP out of thin air or get you to the end of a three year training plan significantly faster.
Certainly, there will be some apparent advantage in the short term. Over the long haul, you might lose out a couple of days over a year, while the other guy is burning up a PLEX every couple of months.
I'd prefer to spend that ISK on more alts, or to buy a supercarrier pilot from the bazaar.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.07 09:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Zagdul ... [Paid-for at-will neural remapping] doesn't "speed" up the process of people getting ahead in the game. You've already spent the time on the skill points, you just made a mistake of where you really wanted them.
I'll second what Zagdul said. It's been said before and it'll be said again: remaps on-demand will only help you get to particular milestones in a training plan sooner, they will not create SP out of thin air or get you to the end of a three year training plan significantly faster.
Certainly, there will be some apparent advantage in the short term. Over the long haul, you might lose out a couple of days over a year, while the other guy is burning up a PLEX every couple of months.
I'd prefer to spend that ISK on more alts, or to buy a supercarrier pilot from the bazaar.
well the issue at hand here (plex for remap) isn't what worries some of the people.
it's the slippery slope effect that it brings. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
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Posted - 2010.10.07 13:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Krispy Dingo on 07/10/2010 13:29:01 The slippery slope it bringsā
I am pretty sure I can already buy skill points for REAL MONEY.
I buy GTC from shattered crystals in the amount of $770US.
I convert GTC to PLEX in game and get 15.4bil isk.
I use that to buy this character.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1391665
I have just bought skill points for real money.
Admittedly, someone had to take the time to train the skills on the toon, but as far as I am concerned, I just bought a 69mil SP character with skills I do not need to waste time training.
Now, when I go PVP with her, I die because I never learned how to play the game. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.10.07 13:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 07/10/2010 13:35:50 Characters are at least a limited resource, if lots of people tried to do this at once then the value of PLEX would drop while the value of characters ( in ISK ) would increase.
PLEX for SP doesn't have this inbuilt balancing.
As to slippery slope, well CCP are already heading down this with gay abandon by creating more and more PLEX sinks:
PLEX for charity. Destructible PLEX PLEX for remap.
There will be more PLEX sinks coming, so it's more a matter of when you decide to quite rather than if.
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