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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:30:00 -
[1]
This guide is to help bears avoid unwanted pvp. Many of these tactics are "frowned on" by pvpers. Smack in local accordingly.
Basic PvP avoidance:
First, keep up basic scouting. Create a safe spot near each gate you frequent. This spot should be 162-250k+ off the gate in a random direction. When you plan on warping out, warp to the safe, use directional scan to make sure no one is warping to you, then warp down to the gate. This both avoids bubbles and gives you a peek at the gate before you land on it.
Second, if you frequent low sec/0.0 join/create intel channels. Identify known gankers and ally with known "safe" corps to spot and pass on their movements/camps. Its tedious, but the gankers do it and so should you!
Third, avoid autopiloting, or if you must be lazy at least don't autopilot in t3s or expensive haulers without tank. And remember, a huge percent of all suicide ganks happen in or near a market hub (jita, dodixe) or major mission running hub (motsu, emolgraven).
Forth, don't be too rich. Gankers wet themselves over a golem or faction fit tengu kill and will happily gate camp for hours dreaming about killing you. But a basic drake and stealth bomber can do many jobs just as well for a fraction of the risk and cost. The less tempting you are, the less you will be harassed.
How to Run a Gatecamp/Stationcamp:
To understand how to run a gate/staion camp, you need to understand warp mechanics. To go into warp, you need to be aligned to a point and moving at ~80% or above of your max speed. This can be used in two primary ways.
First, fit a cloak (any type) and a mwd. When you warp into a hostile camp, click align, hit your mwd, then hit cloak. This will start your ship aligning while boosting your speed temporarily due to the mwd. After a few seconds pass and your ship has aligned and just before the MWD cycle has ended, decloak and warp. Because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed (due to the mwd pulse just expiring), you will instantly pop into warp. This method is very difficult for a camp to stop because they have to physically bump into you and decloak you before your mwd cycle/align time ends. With a bit of practice, you can run most camps in a cruiser/bc or below hull.
Second, to run a station camp, create an "instawarp" bookmark. During a safe time, undock in a fast ship and fly 160-250k+ away from the station in a straight line. Next time you undock, your ship will be pushed out at above your max speed. Simply instantly warp to that spot -- because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed due to being pushed out of the station, you should instantly warp faster than you can be targeted. You can also use a 2nd account to fleet warp and go into warp much faster (while the 1st account is still loading). Then go on your way.
While not foolproof, this will bypass the overwhelming majority of gate / station camps.
How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
How to avoid being probed down:
To make your ship unprobable, you need to have your ship's signature radius / sensor strength < 1.08. This is realistically only possible on t3 and a select few other ships. However, to make your ship "virtually" unprobable you need only 1.5. At 1.5 you cannot be scanned down unless they have the expensive implants, which few pvpers will risk especially outside of lowsec) and 1.5 is much more obtainable.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:37:00 -
[2]
Ran out of space. If anyone has questions, ask. Virtually all unwanted pvp can be avoided or significantly reduced. Don't let the unloved 30 year old virgin sociopaths keep you from playing the game how you want to!
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.09 00:00:00 -
[3]
Nice.
Great Info.
Just a few things to add. A Covert Ops Frigate is excellent for making Safe Spots in unsafe areas.
Insta-Undock Safe Spots: I like to set up my Insta-Undock spots between 600km to 1000km from station. Seems that the angle of exit vectors are not exactly the same each time you undock. The further away the spot is equals to less align time for warp. Also to make sure your ship is off grid, have the station sentry guns showing on overview and when they disappear from the overview, you'll be off grid.
Low Security Stations: Another way to create Insta-Undock spot is to have a ship fitted with Covert Ops cloak and warp to 100km of station while cloaked. Click the 'Look' option on the station and locate which side the exit point is for the station. While keeping range from the station, maneuver your ship to that side and use the Tactical view to get aligned with the exit at the same elevation and then proceed straight out till you have reached the desired km range to make the Insta-Undock spot.
Align time: The MWD and cloak trick is great for armor tank ships. For shield tank ships that can't fit up a MWD due to powergrid or cpu issues and have the Covert Ops cloak fitted, fitting a Nanostructure module will increase the speed as well as agility. Gate cloak will last for about 30 seconds. Click on the destination and select 'warp to 0' and activate the Cov Ops cloak asap. The ship will be aligned by the time the gate cloak wears off and within 1 second the Covert Ops cloak is active and the ship will be going into warp. When the ship comes out of warp and the green cycle on the cloak module stops, you'll be able to jump at the next gate or dock at station.
Of course training up Navigation skills and Spaceship Command skills will also help make the ship faster with much more agility.
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Elyham
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.09 01:42:00 -
[4]
farmville that way -->
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.10.09 02:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.10.09 02:49:00 -
[6]
Quote: First, fit a cloak (any type) and a mwd. When you warp into a hostile camp, click align, hit your mwd, then hit cloak. This will start your ship aligning while boosting your speed temporarily due to the mwd. After a few seconds pass and your ship has aligned and just before the MWD cycle has ended, decloak and warp. Because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed (due to the mwd pulse just expiring), you will instantly pop into warp. This method is very difficult for a camp to stop because they have to physically bump into you and decloak you before your mwd cycle/align time ends. With a bit of practice, you can run most camps in a cruiser/bc or below hull.
For gatecamps, that actually is a pretty good method. Whle undocking from stations, it ranges from iffy to just being fail. The ship won't be able to cloak if there's other ships crowding the dock, not to mention it needs to be 2km from the station itself before it can cloak. Also "any type" won't do. You need at least a T2 or faction cloak because the max speed penalty for the T1 cloak is much worse than the 500-600% boost from a MWD. You need a cloak that will let you MWD to a speed that is at least 75% of your uncloaked base speed.
You're much better off using the 30 secs of invulnerability after undocking to instawarp to a safespot that you are already aligned to when you exit the station.
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ISK Launderer
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Posted - 2010.10.09 03:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
PVP = Player vs Plagioclase?
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Missy Sasha
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Posted - 2010.10.09 04:08:00 -
[8]
if eve was singleplayer, i'd play that. but its not.
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Elyham
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.09 05:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
Thanks for clearing that up. U mad bro?
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Maggee Q
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
This. Well said my friend. If by Farmville you mean avoiding risk-taking ventures, then yes all carebear-hunters may as well go farm their little cornfield too. Grow some balls and try to pick on people with the same fighting skillsets you have.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Don't let the unloved 30 year old virgin sociopaths keep you from playing the game how you want to!
Sometimes I really do wonder how many of these guys were bullied IRL or are sociopaths who are living out their fantasies online.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elyham <angry gankbear tears>
Here is an example of the gankbear's frowning. His killboard has nothing but jita and motsu ganks, yet he wails about how hardcore eve is and how everyone should be at risk. But where's the risk in instapopping shuttles and ganking mission drakes? If you actually wanted risk, you'd be fighting targets who want to shoot back. But you aren't. You're just a sociopath who wants to feel powerful as an internet spaceship pirate. At least the bears are honest about farming; you are just pathetic.
And that's why bears should know -- the sociopaths are wrong. Eve is not about risk, they just want you to believe they have a right to grief you. They don't, and not only that virtually all the mechanics of eve make it easier to avoid pvp than gank. You simply need to know the mechanics as well as the gankbears.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:36:00 -
[12]
What's funny is that CCP actually nerfed NOS because they didn't want hulks killing the poor pirates. The first anti-carebear PvP nerf in the history of MMO's.
On a side note, back in the days of UO, we didn't honor gankers by calling them PvPers. The people who only came out of hiding to attack low-risk high-reward targets, who used neutral alts to find targets for them, who fled, hid, or logged off to avoid any kind of fight where they had a chance of losing were called player killers. The title of PvPer was reserved for those who wanted a fight, not the guy who just wanted an uncontested kill in the name of easy loot and griefing. At best, I'd call what they do "player vs game mechanics".
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.09 12:38:00 -
[13]
Im wondering how you would go about making ISK if pvp is off the agenda, market is PVP also.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.09 13:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/10/2010 13:10:59 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/10/2010 13:09:38
Originally by: VC General What's funny is that CCP actually nerfed NOS because they didn't want hulks killing the poor pirates. The first anti-carebear PvP nerf in the history of MMO's.
On a side note, back in the days of UO, we didn't honor gankers by calling them PvPers. The people who only came out of hiding to attack low-risk high-reward targets, who used neutral alts to find targets for them, who fled, hid, or logged off to avoid any kind of fight where they had a chance of losing were called player killers. The title of PvPer was reserved for those who wanted a fight, not the guy who just wanted an uncontested kill in the name of easy loot and griefing. At best, I'd call what they do "player vs game mechanics".
When I played "online" at the beginning, it was text games and 75-300 baud modems. Even then, the opportunistic killers were already there and they were flagged (by the game) as "PKiller" not as PvPer. We'd have an actual sort of tournament that was "PvP" and who won (last "man / dwarf / wolf / dragon / *whale* (!)..." standing) would earn a title, items AND Roleplay points (!).
Edit: Should I feel ashamed if I say I miss those times? - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.09 14:47:00 -
[15]
If the aim is to avoid PvP, I'd also add this one: Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Smack in local accordingly. Narrow the local chat (not character list) down to its absolute minimum width and ignore the garbled mush of characters appearing there
Local is where tears are being cultivated and extracted ù ignore it, and their frustration will be epic. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.10.09 17:23:00 -
[16]
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
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Hanz Landou
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Posted - 2010.10.09 19:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: heheheh I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
U mad?
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: heheheh I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
The rest of the game. Plus, there's something satisfying about denying some carebear-ganker his kill.
But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
Even if he's just running to go get his own PvP ship.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:23:00 -
[19]
Quote: But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
The OP gives better advice than this.
The best way to avoid being ganked is not to put yourself in the position to be so. By pretending to escape, all that's possible to achieve is to delay the inevitable.
By learning and playing smarter, instead, it's possible to have the upper hand and even to control the losses.
Don't be in the position to be the prey, because then the hyenas will smell you. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote: But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
The OP gives better advice than this.
Likely because I was responding to a tangent, not attempting to offer advice.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
The best way to avoid being ganked is not to put yourself in the position to be so. By pretending to escape, all that's possible to achieve is to delay the inevitable.
By learning and playing smarter, instead, it's possible to have the upper hand and even to control the losses.
Don't be in the position to be the prey, because then the hyenas will smell you.
This is all pretty vague, and can be interpreted many ways. For example: knowing when (and how) to GTFO could arguably fall under the categories of 'playing smarter' and 'control the losses.'
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:25:00 -
[21]
LMAO. This is too good.
How about any noob who actually is learning something here that they just stay in an NPC corp, stay in high sec, don't shoot anyone/steal from anyone and don't fly an uber-expensive ship.
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Boma Airaken
White Song Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2010.10.10 04:24:00 -
[22]
How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
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Jita Squatter
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 05:38:50
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
Originally by: heheheh I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Originally by: Boma Airaken How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
I don't get why you guys are complaining. Information like this gets more bears into lowsec. Isn't that what you want?
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jita Squatter Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 05:38:50
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
Originally by: heheheh I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Originally by: Boma Airaken How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
I don't get why you guys are complaining. Information like this gets more bears into lowsec. Isn't that what you want?
in what universe?
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Jita Squatter
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Posted - 2010.10.10 08:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 08:50:54
Originally by: Lady Aja in what universe?
This one?
Its pretty simple in my opinion. If a carebear enters lowsec for the first time, and gets killed by the first gate camp they see, they are more likely to stay in hisec in the future. With tricks like MWD/cloak, they survive long enough to get an idea about the isk they can make in lowsec. Instead of rage-quitting, they stay. Carebears in lowsec means more targets for pirates.
Well, as a carebear that has operated out of lowsec/nullsec most of my life (about 3 years), I live there for the some of the same reasons you do. Because i find hisec terribly boring. Because I live for the danger. Nothing gets the blood pumping like getting through a bubble camp in a blockade runner with 17 percent hull.
As for why people would avoid pvp in a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp, well, you may say i'm doing it wrong. I say its my sandbox too, and i can do whatever i damn well please.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.10 10:55:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Nothing gets the blood pumping like getting through a bubble camp in a blockade runner with 17 percent hull
There's something even more blood pumping imho: getting thru a camp in a T2 fit battleship with 17% hull, all modules overheated to full damage after you just killed the whole lot. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.10 11:24:00 -
[27]
Awww come on people, how about giving some good replies with real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems?
This could be a very good guide which would actually get more players going into low security systems.
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Johan Sabbat
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.10 13:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Awww come on people, how about giving some good replies with real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems?
This could be a very good guide which would actually get more players going into low security systems.
Moar people in low-sec?
What a crazy notion...
Talking of crazy notions, scout alt/mates
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Isaac Apylon
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.10.10 14:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems
Tip #1: Bring out some insured ships and kill the people who are bothering you.
Of course, this might not work as well for bears if they're flying solo, although to be honest if you're playing this entire game solo, you're either brain-dead or going to be soon.
I'm as much a bear as most (I <3 my Vargur), but if you're going to go into lowsec, the best thing you can do is at least be prepared or willing to pvp. Even with all sorts of neat tricks, odds are you will be caught someday, and it's best to be prepared for that fact now rather than later. |
Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.10 15:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Isaac Apylon Tip #1: Bring out some insured ships and kill the people who are bothering you.
Actually that's the worst advice you can give for three reasons.
1. True bears don't know what they are doing. They won't have the right fits, they won't have the right tactics. They will be at a major disadvantage.
2. Gankbears don't play equal fights. If you have a chance of winning, they will dock. You can safely assume as a bear if they are willing to shoot at all, they know for a fact they will win.
3. Fighting gives the bored gankbears what they want. Face it, eve is a boring game as a gankbear. You can sit for hours waiting for someone to fall into your camp or to "duel" your rupture at jita. Giving gankers a "fight" is the highlight of their day -- even in the unlikely event they lose its better for them than sitting around. See, you don't need them to enjoy the game, but they need you to let them gank you to enjoy the game. When you don't do it, they get bored, angry, and finally make rage threads. That boredom is a great weapon for you as a bear -- let them stew and get bored and ragequit. Turn their own pathological rage inward.
Another few tips:
Gate Aggression:
In a nutshell, if you agress in any way, including defensive, you can't jump through a gate for 30 seconds. Also, if an opponent tries to warp in your bubble this counts as aggression.
You can use this in several ways. Suppose you land on a low sec gate with a hostile on it. You know that if you jump through, he will follow and probably point you and gank you. Instead of jumping blindly through, just start to align out (while still being within 2500 of the gate). If the ganker points you, jump through the gate and he cannot follow you for a 30 seconds. If he does not point/aggress you, simply warp away.
Another way to run a large gate camp with a fast frigate/cynabal is when you jump through and are surrounded by hostiles, simply wait 30 seconds (to avoid the session timer) and click reapproach and hit your MWD. In the ~5 seconds it takes you to get back to the gate, many will aggro on you. Jump through, and they can't follow. Some others may follow you through and try to tag you on the other side. Bounce back and forth between the gates until they get strung out (the ones on the wrong side will be clicking jump through furiously so they get on the killmail zomg cannot miss my killmails!!) so after a few times bouncing back and forth you should have an opening to jump to saftey. This can also be used to avoid bubbles -- be sure to "warp" to trigger aggro on them each time you jump through, so this will leave 1+ bubbler on each side each trip until they run out of dictors/hictors.
Dealing with afk Cloakers:
Hotdroppers often leave a cloaker afk in system to harass you. Then he will randomly come back, probe someone down, and gank them. This method is effectively without risk and a good way to gank opposing alliance's bears.
The best counter as a bear is to avoid attempting to fight the cloaky ***s, but also not to let them disrupt your bearing. Trade in your drakes/ravens/carriers/etc for two ships -- Tengu and Manticore. A tengu with 2x conjunctive ECCM, 1x warded sensor cluster, and a dissolution subsystem should hit the 1.08 unprobable mark and still have plenty of spots for tank. A manticore can fit 1x eccm to become unprobable and still have room for an AB and the covops cloak (which makes a great scout). This means 1x tengu + a few Sbs can make a reasonably priced, unprobable, and high dps bearfleet with a built in scout. You can run most pve content this way -- just be sure to have the tengu aligned while ratting, and have the mantys cloak up when needed. Use this, combined with good use of dscan, seeing probes, and scouting gates/stations to simply bypass their gank attempts. Also note that its possible to kill belt rats using only SBs with ABs and no tank who rely on range/transversal.
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.10 15:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Johan Sabbat
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Awww come on people, how about giving some good replies with real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems?
This could be a very good guide which would actually get more players going into low security systems.
Moar people in low-sec?
What a crazy notion...
Talking of crazy notions, scout alt/mates
What a crazy notion... You thinking that you had some important information to add to this thread.
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Isaac Apylon
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.10.10 15:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach 1. True bears don't know what they are doing. They won't have the right fits, they won't have the right tactics. They will be at a major disadvantage.
All the more reason for them to learn. Like I said, they will find themselves in a pvp situation eventually. Better to learn to deal with it now, in insured ships, than to get caught in their nice ships and ragequit later. Besides, the best way to learn how to act when caught in a pvp situation is to actually get in one.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach 2. Gankbears don't play equal fights. If you have a chance of winning, they will dock. You can safely assume as a bear if they are willing to shoot at all, they know for a fact they will win.
Well, if they dock, just keep them there until they log out in boredom, and your problem is solved. Keep it up consistently, and if they're really the gankbears you accuse them of being, they'll get the point and go looking elsewhere. Problem doubly solved.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach 3. Face it, eve is a boring game as a carebear.
Fixed it for you.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Turn their own pathological rage inward.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Dealing with afk Cloakers:
...but also not to let them disrupt your bearing.
This is one of the few sensible things you've said, and I commend you for it. You've shown more reason in this single statement than the vast swaths of cloak hating macro ratting whinebears that currently inhabit null who don't get that you can do something to protect against cloakers. Bravo.
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Valentina Koslova
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Posted - 2010.10.10 18:16:00 -
[33]
Patience is also INVALUABLE when dealing with gate camps.
If you're in a cloaky transport - warp to 100 (or more if you know a gate is frequently camped and bubbled) so you can get a look at the gate before you warp to it and if you have to...slow boat it to the gate to avoid things that are in your way.
Also if your on the highsec side of a gate and you think or KNOW there is a camp on the other side stay cloaked up and watch the gate. When a juicy target goes through give it a few seconds and then warp to the gate. Chances are decent that the hostiles will be more occupied with the first guy and won't have time for you. Take advantage of the other guy's stupidity.
Another thing...for crying out loud...if you're one of those ****heads that sits RIGHT on a gate ready to jump through hoping to wait out the campers on the other side you deserve to lose that ship. You think they're not watching the other side with alts, salivating and just waiting for you to jump? (and those of us smart enough to be cloaked are cursing you for making us wait even longer for that camp on the other side to break up..especially when you don't jump through and give us the opening we need while they're hammering on YOU)
Also... if you're boxed in a system by Drams on every gate...safe spot up and have a conversation with them. Just a "how ya doing" not a big smacktalk fest that will make them CRAVE killing you. Either they'll talk to ya and you might learn someting or they won't. Stay where you are cloaked up and they'll eventually get bored and then guess what? You win.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.10 18:49:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Whitehound on 10/10/2010 18:50:47 The thread should be moved into Crime & Punishment and for a laugh. Alternatively into Warfare & Tactics. --
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Kishin Sendo
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.10 19:50:00 -
[35]
The topic of the trend make me laugh
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morealtsplease
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Posted - 2010.10.10 22:14:00 -
[36]
Edited by: morealtsplease on 10/10/2010 22:15:19
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish.
This is completely false. |
Nadia Sorenson
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: morealtsplease Edited by: morealtsplease on 10/10/2010 22:15:19
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish.
This is completely false.
Not that I dispute this, but can you clarify? It's not illegal to disband? Or it is illegal for individual chars to leave?
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.12 14:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nadia Sorenson
Originally by: morealtsplease Edited by: morealtsplease on 10/10/2010 22:15:19
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish.
This is completely false.
Not that I dispute this, but can you clarify? It's not illegal to disband? Or it is illegal for individual chars to leave?
He's wrong and/or spreading misinformation. Many pirates will tell you leaving corp to avoid a wardec is a bannable offense, but its not. There's red quotes to that effect, but I CBA to search for them. Someone post them if you would please.
The bottom line is you can use that method to avoid all wardecs with minimal risk/hassle.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.12 16:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
Nice! Well said.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Abarot
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Posted - 2010.10.12 18:10:00 -
[40]
not sure if it was mentioned before but put probes on overview and push that scanner button once a while
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2010.10.12 18:43:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Tamahra on 12/10/2010 18:50:29
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Gankbears don't play equal fights. If you have a chance of winning, they will dock. You can safely assume as a bear if they are willing to shoot at all, they know for a fact they will win.
I find this very clever and effective . It¦s the same thing that predators started to do in the primeval times, long before humans existed, and they still do it today. No wildlife predator in their right mind would play equal or fair fights with their prey.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.13 16:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tamahra Edited by: Tamahra on 12/10/2010 18:50:29
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Gankbears don't play equal fights. If you have a chance of winning, they will dock. You can safely assume as a bear if they are willing to shoot at all, they know for a fact they will win.
I find this very clever and effective . It¦s the same thing that predators started to do in the primeval times, long before humans existed, and they still do it today. No wildlife predator in their right mind would play equal or fair fights with their prey.
Yes, but that's not the point. The point is how often hypocritical gankbears rage about pve players avoiding risk when they never take a risk themselves.
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SirFreddo
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Posted - 2010.10.13 17:32:00 -
[43]
Nice guide!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.13 17:55:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/10/2010 17:57:17
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach He's wrong and/or spreading misinformation. Many pirates will tell you leaving corp to avoid a wardec is a bannable offense, but its not. There's red quotes to that effect, but I CBA to search for them. Someone post them if you would please.
The bottom line is you can use that method to avoid all wardecs with minimal risk/hassle.
Here you go: Originally by: GM Nythanos Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
The two tend to get confused: you are not allowed to make yourself harder to wardec, but you are allowed to dodge the dec once it hits. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whiskeydod
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Posted - 2010.10.13 19:46:00 -
[45]
Knowing how to avoid PVP is a skill that is useful for anyone, Carebear or not. I have had people people call me a noob for avoiding a battle and docking up instead of engaging in a battle that I would obviously lose. Not only can it save your ass, but it can infuriate those trying to kill you.
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Del Rosario
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Posted - 2010.10.13 20:01:00 -
[46]
Thnx, nice tip
I have longed for low-sec, been there a few times with various outcome. But most of my destryed ships happened there... This may just be the trigger I need to actually dare to moove down there...
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.14 09:58:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Del Rosario Thnx, nice tip
I have longed for low-sec, been there a few times with various outcome. But most of my destryed ships happened there... This may just be the trigger I need to actually dare to moove down there...
There is an entire sub-profession of low/nullsec mission runners who have learned to survive by being smart and unprobable. The amount of sheer tears shed by pirates who can't bear the thought of someone PvE'ing in their system has to be seen to be believed.
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Daric Thorn
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Posted - 2010.10.14 14:10:00 -
[48]
The original post is so good it deserves a sticky. The gankers responding with "u need to learn to PVP" have missed the point so comprehensively it's breathtaking.
Another huge advantage of carebearing in lowsec/nullsec/wormholes is that you can experience a lot of the variety in EVE even if you have only a few hours to play every few days and play at odd hours.
The risk of losing ships makes it more fun and there is none of the PVP corp BS of spinning at gatecamps, blobs or boring waits for fleets to form only to fail to find targets.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.16 14:37:00 -
[49]
For me its simply about helping people avoid grief. I enjoy pvp, and risky pve. Many do not, and they should know the game mechanics that help prevent them from being griefed by unwanted pvp.
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Solaris233
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.17 18:08:00 -
[50]
lol most carebears are too lazy to avoid pvp
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.17 20:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Solaris233 lol most carebears are too lazy to avoid pvp
Almost as lazy as most PVPers I'd dare say.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:42:00 -
[52]
Quote: Yes, but that's not the point. The point is how often hypocritical gankbears rage about pve players avoiding risk when they never take a risk themselves
They take plenty of risks. Engaging in PVP is a risk; a controlled risk.
Obviously, you assume you have a >50% chance of winning if you engage. That's the point. The entire competitive side of EVE is based around setting yourself up so that you are in an advantage.
You out-think your enemy. Better fits, better strategy, traps, etc. Believe it or not, combat is about tactics, and not lining up and taking turns punching each other in the genitals. You'll see this in real wars, too.
..Then again, I suppose every soldier who ever lived is a risk-averse coward because they did things like dig trenches, flank their enemies, and come with better equipment to maximize their chances of winning.
No, the only gentlemanly way to fight is to make sure you all have even numbers and no equipment, and then take turns punching each other until someone falls.
tl;dr: If you can safely say that you pose no threat to your enemy, that is YOUR fault, not your enemies. You have access to every ship and resource they do. Also, carebears have more ISK.
So: Combat skills, check. Superior isk, check.
What are they lacking? The intelligence to win a fight. That's it. Maybe it's a matter of fear (oh god might lose), maybe it's a matter of honor (can't do anything that might make us win!), or maybe it's just a matter of stupidity.
It's a rare case to have someone with no interest in combat. All missions are is combat. Just, yknow, combat on easymode. It's like playing chess against kindergartners all day so your ego isn't threatened by losing a game.
Just thought I'd clear that little bit up. In b4 veiled "Those people literally scare me in a spaceship game, so they must have mental problems" tirade. |
Master Dodge
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.18 11:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Space Pinata
You out-think your enemy. Better fits, better strategy, traps, etc. Believe it or not, combat is about tactics, and not lining up and taking turns punching each other in the genitals. You'll see this in real wars, too.
..Then again, I suppose every soldier who ever lived is a risk-averse coward because they did things like dig trenches, flank their enemies, and come with better equipment to maximize their chances of winning.
tl;dr: If you can safely say that you pose no threat to your enemy, that is YOUR fault, not your enemies. You have access to every ship and resource they do. Also, carebears have more ISK.
So: Combat skills, check. Superior isk, check.
What are they lacking? The intelligence to win a fight. That's it. Maybe it's a matter of fear (oh god might lose), maybe it's a matter of honor (can't do anything that might make us win!), or maybe it's just a matter of stupidity.
Wow.. i mean just wow. I'd like to take this moment to link the definition of analogy 'Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar; A comparison based on such similarity'.
Your likening people who play eve to soldiers in some sort of war is just comedy as the OP is not talking about fleet on fleet proper war's (that eve does so well and one of the reasons i love it so much) but is talking about the much more crap 'omfgwtfijustgotblownupness' that can be trying to navigate low sec for some mission runners (many of whom pvp too)
A more correct analogy of the type of ganking and general taking advantage of ships which are obviously not in pvp setup would be to say that on one side you have a fully kitted a prepared soldier. Then on the other side you have someone who is also a soldier but you've caught him at a time when he's taking the trash out or perhaps doing his second job. What i'm saying is try and compare apples to apples not apples to sub machine guns. ie saying someone is stupid because you kicked his ass does not mean he is stupid, you just caught him at a point where he could not be expected to be able to respond effectivly, (running missions etc).
Oh and please do NOT say that PKers have more skill, they are just socipaths with little to no skill who weren;t shown enough love as a child
TL:DR Love real PVP Hate PKers
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 12:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Space Pinata [Gankbears] take plenty of risks. Engaging in PVP is a risk; a controlled risk...
Spoken like a true gankbear. Engaging miners and mission runners with your PVP fit is NOT risk, no matter how you try and sugar-coat it. Nice try though .
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach But where's the risk in instapopping shuttles and ganking mission drakes? If you actually wanted risk, you'd be fighting targets who want to shoot back. But you aren't. You're just a sociopath who wants to feel powerful as an internet spaceship pirate. At least the bears are honest about farming; you are just pathetic.
Ankh, is that you?
By the way, the MWD/Cloak advice given above is incorrect. It will get you killed, and here is why:
Activating your MWD makes your signature radius larger, which causes any locks on you to complete much more quickly. Activating the MWD first may cause someone to complete a lock before your cloak activates.
The correct way to use this trick is to activate your cloak and THEN activate your MWD. There is a second or two window in which you can activate modules after your cloak has been turned on. It takes a bit of practice to get the timing down, but you can practice up in high sec until you feel confident in your execution. Fix Rockets in '08 '09 2010 2011 2012?! |
Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.18 22:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Space Pinata on 18/10/2010 22:16:01
Quote: A more correct analogy of the type of ganking and general taking advantage of ships which are obviously not in pvp setup would be to say that on one side you have a fully kitted a prepared soldier. Then on the other side you have someone who is also a soldier but you've caught him at a time when he's taking the trash out or perhaps doing his second job. What i'm saying is try and compare apples to apples not apples to sub machine guns. ie saying someone is stupid because you kicked his ass does not mean he is stupid, you just caught him at a point where he could not be expected to be able to respond effectivly, (running missions etc).
So you're implying that it's bad tactics to ambush your enemy, and that wars are generally fought by sending a few weeks notice and then lining up on a pre-determined field and firing a pre-determined number of shots at one another?
Protip: It's always been COMMON PRACTICE to take advantage of your enemy when vulnerable. If your enemy is at a point where they can't defend, that's in fact the pefect time to order an attack. War is about winning, not about even fights.
Quote: Oh and please do NOT say that PKers have more skill, they are just socipaths with little to no skill who weren;t shown enough love as a child
Then why are umad that they blow you up? Shouldn't you be winning? :3
Quote: Laughing Spoken like a true gankbear. Engaging miners and mission runners with your PVP fit is NOT risk, no matter how you try and sugar-coat it. Nice try though Laughing.
Either you're a troll or you are literally mentally handicapped.
Did you know that there is no "PVP" or "PVE" class in EVE, and that you can change the modules on your ship?
You know, dock, get out of PVE ship, get into PVP ship, etc?
I lived in 0.0 for 2~ years. Never lost a PVE ship. Lost a lot of PVP ships. Why? Because when enemies were around, I was smart enough to be ready to fight.
tl;dr: Stop being a lazy ****er and get out of your drake and into a PVP ship.
Again, it's simple.
I will say this slowly so silly bears can understand it.
Are you ready?
We're playing the same game. The same one.
You can buy and train and fly any ship I can.
If you are not a threat to me, in any way, that is your fault, not mine.
PS: I especially love the "we are completely helpless and can't stand a chance" argument right beside "pvpers have no skill".
If we have no skill, and you are literally helpless against us, where does that put you?
Edit:
Also, just because someone kills your mission ship or shuttle, it doesn't mean they'd not fight a fleet. It just means you didn't bring a fleet. I love small fleet fights. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let a war target get a free pass just because they're alone. |
Tehbuyerz
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Posted - 2010.10.19 01:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Master Dodge
Oh and please do NOT say that PKers have more skill, they are just socipaths with little to no skill who weren;t shown enough love as a child
TL:DR Love real PVP Hate PKers
Any PVP is real PVP, bear. Come prepared next time or learn to hide your unskilled a$$, but quit crying in EVE's public forums.
Real pvp lol... gimme a break, carebear.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.19 01:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Space Pinata Either you're a troll or you are literally mentally handicapped.
Did you know that there is no "PVP" or "PVE" class in EVE, and that you can change the modules on your ship?
You know, dock, get out of PVE ship, get into PVP ship, etc?
I lived in 0.0 for 2~ years. Never lost a PVE ship. Lost a lot of PVP ships. Why? Because when enemies were around, I was smart enough to be ready to fight.
tl;dr: Stop being a lazy ****er and get out of your drake and into a PVP ship.
Again, it's simple.
I will say this slowly so silly bears can understand it.
Are you ready?
We're playing the same game. The same one.
You can buy and train and fly any ship I can.
If you are not a threat to me, in any way, that is your fault, not mine.
PS: I especially love the "we are completely helpless and can't stand a chance" argument right beside "pvpers have no skill".
If we have no skill, and you are literally helpless against us, where does that put you?
Edit:
Also, just because someone kills your mission ship or shuttle, it doesn't mean they'd not fight a fleet. It just means you didn't bring a fleet. I love small fleet fights. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let a war target get a free pass just because they're alone.
Whoah there, cowboy! Take a breather. You made a stupid and silly comment and I replied to it. It's become quite clear you have a deep hatred for players that play differently from you. But honestly, that's a problem for you to deal with. Coming here wagging your finger saying "carebears blah carebears bleh" while claiming that you're somehow a superior human being just goes to show you have yet a whole lot more of growing up to do. S'all.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Elyham
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.19 04:04:00 -
[59]
FOR THE BEARS:
PVP FIT
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Master Dodge
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.19 08:06:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tehbuyerz
Originally by: Master Dodge
Oh and please do NOT say that PKers have more skill, they are just socipaths with little to no skill who weren;t shown enough love as a child
TL:DR Love real PVP Hate PKers
Any PVP is real PVP, bear. Come prepared next time or learn to hide your unskilled a$$, but quit crying in EVE's public forums.
Real pvp lol... gimme a break, carebear.
You sir fail on so many levels it actually makes me feel sorry for you. You assume i'm a bear because I don't like high sec gankers? No, actually I loved pvp when I played this game when it came out and fully intend to get back into it again once I have a few skills again.
Once again basic IQ type test question. Not liking gankers does not make one a carebear mission runner. It means you don't like high sec no skill gankers, reading skillzz is for the leet apparently...
However;
That being said I still think anyone who flies a ship worth over a few billion not in a fleet/paying attention is sort of asking for it nowadays unfortunately, that's just the reality of eve and mission runners need to be careful.
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Edge Horseman
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Posted - 2010.10.19 11:48:00 -
[61]
I am a noob
Ok now thats out the way, i started playing eve not really knowing what to expect.. I found mineing and tradeing a fun thing to do (mineing is more a social thing i dont love the stareing at my strip beam) So i was on the path to being a "bear" running scared between gates, then i got ganked and lost 100mill!!!
Time for revenge....
Started a new toon, started learning umm learning.. Followed by pvp and OMG wwhat was i doing running scared for, pvp is great fun!! who cares about lost isk.. ITS A GAME and great fun to..
Isk is there to fund pvp, what else is it good for? thats right... Nothing!
So from a noob to the veteran carebears, stop wasteing your time, jump in a rifter and go have some real fun!!
"Basic PvP avoidance"= Boreing, pointless and wrong on every level
And if your mission running in a 3bill cnr DONT fly what you cant afford to lose!
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.19 12:53:00 -
[62]
Heh, another PvP troll.
Seems all you Gankbears are getting bent out of shape because some players are posting tips on how mission runners can be safer in low sec systems. Probably because instead of getting an easy kill mail from babysitting Jumpgates, will now have to do a little bit of work and actually 'Seek and Destroy' your intended victims.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.19 12:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Edge Horseman
Isk is there to fund pvp, what else is it good for? thats right... Nothing!
QFT I never quite get the people that play soley to accumulate monopoly money.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.19 13:27:00 -
[64]
Excellent and amusing post by the OP, which I suspect is working as intended.
9/10
I will put in my own little tip: time spent in a T1 MWD frigate making bookmarks is rarely wasted.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.19 14:37:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Space Pinata Engaging in PVP is a risk; a controlled risk. ... Obviously, you assume you have a >50% chance of winning if you engage.
The funny thing is bears are taking much more risk than you are. Carebears die in missions all the time; when's the last time you heard of a gankbear dying to a passive drake?
And if you actually fought at 50% or even 60%, that would be one thing. But you don't. You fight at 95%+ or you run. I've seen untold hundreds of pvpers run from a 20 man gang when they have only 15, and most will avoid 15 when they have 20 unless they have an overwhelming ship advantage. But 20 on 1? That's most pvpers style. 1v1? Hell naw. And as they run half of them will be flaming bears on the forums for avoiding risk.
Originally by: Andrea Griffin By the way, the MWD/Cloak advice given above is incorrect. It will get you killed, and here is why:
No, its not. Its literally impossible to lock someone before they can recloak, and your method will result in more speed loss. Regardless, spend a few minutes practicing as a friend tries to lock you and you will get a sense for it.
Originally by: Edge Horseman
Isk is there to fund pvp, what else is it good for? thats right... Nothing!
Many people enjoy the crafting/trading/econ side of eve. More than pvp, actually, because every pvper pves but not every pveer pvps. Many bears think pvp is dull and pvpers are simply sociopaths.
And honestly, I can't blame them -- pvp is rarely determined by combat skill. Compared to many other games, the game mechanics simply don't reward skill nor do they make combat interesting. Its simply a gankbear circle jerk gankfest. In two years and ~1500 kills I can count the number of 10+v10+ equal fights I've had on one hand. People go out of their way to avoid interesting, skill based combat and then chest thump about how hard core they are. This is a freaking game, not the great patriotic war -- at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP, and holding sov to give yourself more bear rights is about as meritorious as owning an office in jita.
And you pvpers are on the whole farked up. You're the people who make wow nerds look like well adjusted studs. You're the people who think /b is funny instead of depraved. You're the people who are 9 times in 10 nerds finally reveling in a change to bully someone else. And I say this as a pvper
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.19 14:54:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP
Very nicely put, especially the quote above.
It's ironic how these "PVP-ROCKS-PVEers-SUCK"-spouting idiots go about ridiculing carebears for farming missions and LP when they themselves spend their entire times collecting kills for a board. They critisize carebears for avoiding and minimizing risk when they do the exact same thing. And it burns them inside to know that some people actually enjoy something they can't. And that it is their sole duty to teach carebears what is fun and what isn't.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2010.10.19 15:26:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Missy Sasha if eve was singleplayer, i'd play that. but its not.
The X3 series is on sale atm @ steam
can I have your stuff?
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Mr Missions
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:14:00 -
[68]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP
Very nicely put, especially the quote above.
It's ironic how these "PVP-ROCKS-PVEers-SUCK"-spouting idiots go about ridiculing carebears for farming missions and LP when they themselves spend their entire times collecting kills for a board. They critisize carebears for avoiding and minimizing risk when they do the exact same thing. And it burns them inside to know that some people actually enjoy something they can't. And that it is their sole duty to teach carebears what is fun and what isn't.
This is 100% right. They are real life sociopaths who deserve prison sentences for their actions. This kind of griefing should warrant their removal from the game not a pat on the back. I have had 2 nervous breakdowns due to the loss of my ships while peacefully running missions and these gankbears come in and destroy all my hard work. Enough is enough, please help show your community support for my game solutions at MAKING EVE BETTER FOR EVERYONE
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mr Missions
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP
Very nicely put, especially the quote above.
It's ironic how these "PVP-ROCKS-PVEers-SUCK"-spouting idiots go about ridiculing carebears for farming missions and LP when they themselves spend their entire times collecting kills for a board. They critisize carebears for avoiding and minimizing risk when they do the exact same thing. And it burns them inside to know that some people actually enjoy something they can't. And that it is their sole duty to teach carebears what is fun and what isn't.
This is 100% right. They are real life sociopaths who deserve prison sentences for their actions. This kind of griefing should warrant their removal from the game not a pat on the back. I have had 2 nervous breakdowns due to the loss of my ships while peacefully running missions and these gankbears come in and destroy all my hard work. Enough is enough, please help show your community support for my game solutions at MAKING EVE BETTER FOR EVERYONE
You're trying too hard, Mr. Hardcore PVPer.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Mr Missions
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:23:00 -
[70]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Mr Missions
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP
Very nicely put, especially the quote above.
It's ironic how these "PVP-ROCKS-PVEers-SUCK"-spouting idiots go about ridiculing carebears for farming missions and LP when they themselves spend their entire times collecting kills for a board. They critisize carebears for avoiding and minimizing risk when they do the exact same thing. And it burns them inside to know that some people actually enjoy something they can't. And that it is their sole duty to teach carebears what is fun and what isn't.
This is 100% right. They are real life sociopaths who deserve prison sentences for their actions. This kind of griefing should warrant their removal from the game not a pat on the back. I have had 2 nervous breakdowns due to the loss of my ships while peacefully running missions and these gankbears come in and destroy all my hard work. Enough is enough, please help show your community support for my game solutions at MAKING EVE BETTER FOR EVERYONE
You're trying too hard, Mr. Hardcore PVPer.
Nice try trolling me. Your name is put on the griefer wall of shame now.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 17:25:00 -
[71]
I have to admit, I chuckled .
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:27:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Tippia on 19/10/2010 17:29:02
Originally by: Mr Missions They are real life sociopaths who deserve prison sentences for their actions.
Yes there is. What does that have to do with the topic at hand, though?
Quote: This kind of griefing should warrant their removal from the game not a pat on the back.
LMAO.
Quote: I have had 2 nervous breakdowns due to the loss of my ships
LMAO
Quote: while peacefully running missions and these gankbears come in and destroy all my hard work.
LMAO
Quote: Enough is enough, please help show your community support for my game solutions at MAKING EVE BETTER FOR EVERYONE
LMAO
Dammit. You owe me four ass transplants for that! Evil real-life griefer. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Brian Ballsack
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 18:29:00 -
[73]
Quote: I have had 2 nervous breakdowns due to the loss of my ships while peacefully running missions and these gankbears come in and destroy all my hard work.
9/10 for that one lol.
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.20 00:53:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Tippia More Bull Sh*t from another PvP Troll
Really?
I've noticed that all of your replies to PvE threads posted in this Forum section are always sarcastic Anti-PvE. Looks like you've trained the skill 'Forum Griefing' to level 5.
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Mr Missions
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Posted - 2010.10.20 17:30:00 -
[75]
This is pure nonsense as I just got ganked again running a L4 and MINDING MY OWN BUSINESS. Battleships warp to my mission WITHOUT MY PERMISSION and blow me up and i cannot do anything about it!! CCP WAKE UP THEY ARE RUINING THE GAME AND RUINING PEOPLES REAL LIVES.
I forgot insurance too so now im stuck in a cruiser to get my money back while these gankbear criminals roam free. THEY NEED TO FACE REAL LIFE PRISON TIME FOR INFLICTING HEALTH ISSUES AND STRESS ON PEOPLE.
This is outrageous and nothing to stop it from happening. What kind of society do we live in these days??
I BEG you ccp please fix this game for honorable people.
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.21 11:11:00 -
[76]
Mr Missions, sorry to hear that.
Don't bother posting that information here in this Forum section, it only attracts Greifer Trolls. Check the Forum section 'Assembly Hall' for any threads posted about the same situation, can then add to them as well as vote.
Look for a level 4 Agent located deep in the middle of High Security space at least 1/2 dozen jumps or more from Low Security Systems and do missions there. Should then have most missions in High Security systems.
If someone scans down your mission site and enters it, lead the NPC's over by them and warp out. Then warp back to mission area. NPC's will probable have chased the Mission invader away or killed him.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.10.21 11:40:00 -
[77]
I had a Rattlesnake pilot join me in my mission DS last week.
True story.
I was missioning in one of the busier systems (but still not a hub like Dods or Mots) and the mission was the assault I think, with all the sensor dampening joy the Serpentis brings.
Rattlesnake warps in, starts killing rats.
He kills rats. I kill rats.
I finish mission quicker.
We both leave.
He didn't say a word to me, my mysterious benefactor, nor I to him. Something I regret now, because I felt something as the twin forces of our mighty vessels laid waste to the incoming fleet. A sensed that something more potent than the lure of ISK had brought us together in the vastness of space, but the enormity of the moment clearly left us at a loss for words.
But I'll never forget them, whatever their name was.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.21 12:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Really?
Yes. Have you checked his other thread ù the one he linked to? If you can't spot the troll there (or for that matter in the post he followed up with) you have some learning to do.
You want sarcastic anti-PvE? Look no further than Mr Missions.
I just happen to find his blatant trolling hilarious. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:20:00 -
[79]
Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 21/10/2010 13:26:20
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Really?
Yes. Have you checked his other thread ù the one he linked to? If you can't spot the troll there (or for that matter in the post he followed up with) you have some learning to do.
You want sarcastic anti-PvE? Look no further than Mr Missions.
I just happen to find his blatant trolling hilarious.
#1 rule - Don't feed the trolls.
Guess I'm gonna break that rule now.
As for me having some learning to do? Come on, do you really wanna get into another Pis*ing contest again?
Actually, we (You and I) along with a few others have already had heated discussions on the game mechanics about High, Low and 0.0 security systems and being able to fire at players, etc, in a few other posted threads.
I don't particularly feel like getting back into this topic again and I'm sure you'll remember what I'm talking about. I know what the current game mechanics are so no need to state them.
However, I do believe that a players mission area should be locked out to other players except Fleet members. And Gate Ganking in High Security Systems should not be allowed to happen at all. On that note I also believe that doing PvP at High Security stations should also not be allowed to happen unless it's a Player Corporation war target.
I understand what Mr Missions is talking about and even though I believe he's over-reacting a bit to a bad situation (And probably making it worse), I still have to agree that the Game Mechanics that I stated above (as well as other ones) are somewhat unbalanced and need to be looked at and changed.
As I said before, I don't feel like going back and forth about this topic again. I'm sure there will be others trying to flame troll me now.
*DeMichael Crimson puts on a Flame Proof Suit, climbs into his Covert Ops Ship and disappears.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.21 13:35:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Tippia on 21/10/2010 13:41:31
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson However, I do believe that a players mission area should be locked out to other players except Fleet members.
In spite of it breaking the game mechanics in several ways?
Quote: And Gate Ganking in High Security Systems should not be allowed to happen at all.
In spite of it being very bad for the high-sec economy?
Quote: On that note I also believe that doing PvP at High Security stations should also not be allowed to happen unless it's a Player Corporation war target.
In spite of it killing strategic interdiction dead?
ànot to mention that all of these suggestion go 100% against the very fabric and fibre of an open-world sandbox game. They kill what makes EVE EVE. Why would this be a good thing?
Quote: I understand what Mr Missions is talking about and even though I believe he's over-reacting a bit to a bad situation
A bit? The (wo)man expresses no ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality and a complete lack of understanding of the fundamental concepts of EVE. He takes the "onoz, petty the poor highsec soloist" ball and runs with it to such an extreme that, I cannot believe for a second that he is serious in the slightest, because if he in, he needs professional help. As in, right now, before he hurts himself or the people around him (which is ironic, really, since that's what he believes others are doingà we'd have to chalk that up as some kind of "projection", I suppose). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:08:00 -
[81]
At the risk of retstating what Tippia just said..........aw hell, I'm going to do it anyway.
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson However, I do believe that a players mission area should be locked out to other players except Fleet members.
No, this removes the non-consensual PvP side of EvE, which is at the core of the game.
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson And Gate Ganking in High Security Systems should not be allowed to happen at all.
No. See above. Fit and fly accordingly. If you HTFU this is less likely to happen to you. If you GTFO out of systems where ganking occurs, you'll also find yourself less likely to be targetted.
Anything to the contrary is very much of the "having cake and eating it" school of argument.
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson On that note I also believe that doing PvP at High Security stations should also not be allowed to happen unless it's a Player Corporation war target.
No, this removes non consensual PvP.
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.21 14:54:00 -
[82]
Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 21/10/2010 14:57:29 This thread has now gone completely off topic. As for the comments/replies the 2 of you stated, .
Keep thinking that.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.21 15:06:00 -
[83]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Keep thinking that.
Until anyone provides any kind of reasoning or proof otherwiseà
àyes, I think I will. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mercenar
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Posted - 2010.10.21 15:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson As for the comments/replies the 2 of you stated, .
Keep thinking that.
Non-consensual PvP is supposed to form the core of EvE as a sandbox game, so it is rather foolish (and shows a lack of understanding about the game) to propose modifications to the game that remove the possibility of non-consensual PvP.
That the gankbears are dictating the terms of the engagement is not, in and of itself, any kind of broken mechanic. No more so than carebears being able to mitigate against the risks of such engagements by taking all sensible precautions. That is what sandbox gaming is supposed to be about.
Personally I feel slightly silly taking the same precautions in hi-sec that I have taken in low sec and 0.0, but I figure better safe than sorry. Certainly better safe than complaining on the forums.
That gankbears may use alt accounts to minimise the repercussions for their actions is somewhat broken, but a regretable side effect of the use of alt accounts in this MMO (a problem far from unique to EvE).
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.10.21 15:35:00 -
[85]
Moved from 'Missions & Complexes', offtopic and inappropriate posts removed. Please try to keep the discussion civil.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Hardreign
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.21 20:31:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Hardreign on 21/10/2010 20:34:34 This guide should extrapolate a little on ninja salvaging, how to avoid it and perhaps a description of how aggression mechanics work. Ninja's often use remote repair, extension of aggro and unique assets like Orca to provide ganglinks and a private dock for their combat ships.
Additionally their favoured ship classes (Vigil) could be outlined and a short note on their tactics surrounding ship scanning. How they identify a bears damage vulnerabilities and stack their damage types against it.
Learning to identify Ninja (and the action of actually watching local chat) could also be described in some detail. If there are 100 mission runners in Emolgranlan and only one Ninja, your chances of being Ninja'd are low ... unless you are in a faction battleship.
In which case you'd best just slip a t-shirt on that reads 'Yoink me.'
All of this (in greater detail) would be extremely useful for the average mission bear. There are loads of brilliant guides for Ninja's as to how to scan down mission runners, remote repair to share aggro, and so on ... bears should have a similar support structure.
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Elyham
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.21 23:44:00 -
[87]
"The Bears Guide to Avoiding PVP"
PVP meaning Player vs Player (as most bears define it as Player vs Plagioclase)
1. Do not undock 2. See #1
You have now successfully avoided PVP, there is zero chance it will happen to you. Enjoy the game.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.22 00:35:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Hardreign Edited by: Hardreign on 21/10/2010 20:34:34 This guide should extrapolate a little on ninja salvaging, how to avoid it and perhaps a description of how aggression mechanics work. Ninja's often use remote repair, extension of aggro and unique assets like Orca to provide ganglinks and a private dock for their combat ships.
Additionally their favoured ship classes (Vigil) could be outlined and a short note on their tactics surrounding ship scanning. How they identify a bears damage vulnerabilities and stack their damage types against it.
Learning to identify Ninja (and the action of actually watching local chat) could also be described in some detail. If there are 100 mission runners in Emolgranlan and only one Ninja, your chances of being Ninja'd are low ... unless you are in a faction battleship.
In which case you'd best just slip a t-shirt on that reads 'Yoink me.'
All of this (in greater detail) would be extremely useful for the average mission bear. There are loads of brilliant guides for Ninja's as to how to scan down mission runners, remote repair to share aggro, and so on ... bears should have a similar support structure.
How to Avoid Ninjas:
1. Don't mission in Motsu. 2. In the unlikely event someone probes you down, abandon all wrecks.
Ninjas just aren't an issue.
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Roosterton
Internet Spaceship Raiders
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Posted - 2010.10.22 03:07:00 -
[89]
Gankbears do provide fun fights sometimes, belive it or not. A while back I was trying canflipping for the first time in my little 2009 rifter, when a 2003 Tristan from a local griefer corp came and flipped my can (which I had flipped from the miner.) Being eager to get a fight from anyone (after flipping around for a few hours,) I engaged him, and after a short fight, emerged victorious with 15% hull
I'll always remember it as one of the experiences which taught me how fun and riveting PVP can be. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Dian Rasd
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.10.22 07:33:00 -
[90]
i think most problems the so called carebears face stem from highsec itself. living there makes you lazy.
i encourage everyone to live in low or null for a week. you will find yourself looking at the other guys in local, checking out their corp etc. then you go back to high and you will go **** 30 guys in local! you will remember where you are and that they cant touch you if you dont screw up and you will find yourself getting lazy and unaware of your surroundings again... just remember that nearly every guy you see in high would still screw you over if given the chance. or in the case of market pvp he allready does.
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Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.10.22 15:07:00 -
[91]
The microwarpdrive + cloack trick works just as well for a Battleship as it does a cruiser, since the time it takes to warp away is always 1 cycle of mwd which is the same for different sizes.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.22 15:16:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dian Rasd i encourage everyone to live in low or null for a week.
I didn't leave 0.0 for a year, then one day flew into Jita to buy a ship. It freaked me out seeing all the nuets everywhere
Originally by: Idicious Lightbane The microwarpdrive + cloack trick works just as well for a Battleship as it does a cruiser, since the time it takes to warp away is always 1 cycle of mwd which is the same for different sizes.
You can use this trick on any ship, but since align times are much longer you are at more risk of getting bumped into while aligning, plus the risk that you won't be able to align before the MWD pulse expires (and you lose the insta). The time it takes to align is not always 1 cycle, it varies based on ship. Take a Raven -- a large MWD pulse lasts only 10 seconds, but even at all v it takes ~18 seconds to align. This means its effectively impossible to instawarp unless you bring other mods/implants.
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Otto Toten
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Posted - 2010.11.04 18:44:00 -
[93]
please delete this thread, lol
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LiquidatorBrunt
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:17:00 -
[94]
Edited by: LiquidatorBrunt on 07/12/2010 13:17:05
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach This guide is to help bears avoid unwanted pvp. Many of these tactics are "frowned on" by pvpers. Smack in local accordingly.
Basic PvP avoidance:
First, keep up basic scout....
I found your entire post and follow ups very helpful, thanks very much Kwisatz
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:18:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Many people enjoy the crafting/trading/econ side of eve. More than pvp, actually, because every pvper pves but not every pveer pvps. Many bears think pvp is dull and pvpers are simply sociopaths.
Hate to break it to you but every activity you named off is technically PVP. Sure it's not PVP spaceship combat but you aren't crafting things to sell to NPC's for the most part nor are you generally trading with NPC's so pretty much the entire econ part of eve is player v player interaction.
People who think that PVPer are sociopaths are need of a reality check. It's a game. part of the game (and a very fun part for that matter) is blowing up peoples ships/pods/assets.
Quote:
And honestly, I can't blame them -- pvp is rarely determined by combat skill. Compared to many other games, the game mechanics simply don't reward skill nor do they make combat interesting. Its simply a gankbear circle jerk gankfest. In two years and ~1500 kills I can count the number of 10+v10+ equal fights I've had on one hand. People go out of their way to avoid interesting, skill based combat and then chest thump about how hard core they are. This is a freaking game, not the great patriotic war -- at the end of the day farming killmails is equally as pointless as farming LP, and holding sov to give yourself more bear rights is about as meritorious as owning an office in jita.
And you pvpers are on the whole farked up. You're the people who make wow nerds look like well adjusted studs. You're the people who think /b is funny instead of depraved. You're the people who are 9 times in 10 nerds finally reveling in a change to bully someone else. And I say this as a pvper
I think you misunderstand PVP in EVE. As well as definition of skill.
In fact I don't believe your boast of 1500 kills (no record of Kwisatz hadereach on BC that I can find) Because I don't see someone managing to get that many kills with out learning a little bit about the skills involved in PVP in EVE. Well unless you were a grunt in massive blob warfare.
There is more to skill than twich play. The skill in EVE comes from dreaming up effective fits, then selecting fights you can win while avoiding those you can't. It involves scouting and hunting. Understanding agro mechanics. Knowing how to bait a force into engaging on your terms, knowing how to avoid same bait from others, knowing how to split up a larger force into smaller manageable chunks.
PVP skill in EVE is all about convincing someone else that they are engaging you in circumstances that are favorable to them while in reality crafting the battle to favor you. The good pilots do this the crappy ones just fire at the first thing they can shoot at.
This is all skill and a damned sight more involved than knowing what key combination unlocks super combat move 999.
You will seldom see anyone with a documented history of success in EVE PVP making such a silly claim as you've made. Generally it's done by blow hards who fail at grasping these skills and are using the claim to explain away their failings.
"I don't suck at PVP, PVP in EVE just sucks"
No you do suck at PVP and you will continue to suck at PVP in EVE until you accept that reality and learn how to not suck.
All that said I don't blame bears for avoiding PVP combat in mission ships. I avoid PVP combat in mission ships. unless you have a point it is pointless to even shoot at another player ship because they're just going to run away (unless you can alpha them)
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:26:00 -
[96]
this thread is full of win.
you cant avoid pvp, at some point, they get you and then you should be prepared.
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Shiptoaster
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:45:00 -
[97]
wtf, this is stupid... I see nothing but wasted time here. Carebears are not only to ******ed to bother reading this. They can't read at all because in part their eyes are sore from all of that ****that was splashed in the eyes from sucking to much **** and not having any eye protection
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Kenn
Caldari McKae Industries and Research
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:05:00 -
[98]
LMAO
The OP was simply advising how to avoid PvP when traveling or doing anything in Eve. They were not stating the merits of doing so or justifying it. It was simply sharing strategies. That people reacted to this negatively and in some cases flamed over it surprises me though it shouldn't I suppose. It is the forum after all.
The initial post was good. PvP is a definite part of this game and avoiding it is just another form of PvP. While some search and destroy others evade. Nothing personal in that nor should it be taken personally.
When Iam ganked I will remain silent in local. I do my best to either win or run but when my ship gets pooed on and becomes dust I (hopefully ) get my Pod out of there to some where safe. I don't whine and I don't talk smack in local to the foe as it only feeds them or helps them.
I don't gank others and I avoid PvP (as in deliberately engaging others) like the plague. Been there tried it didn't really like it. PvE is what I like. I can respect your right to PvP I hope you can respect my right to avoid it or risk dying trying to make me .
Others have different ideas about what I am going to do with my day and that is part of the game. Dealing with them. So thanks for the ideas , tips, and strategies. It's much appreciated. Fly safe. (Muahahhahahaah)
Quote: Kenn> HAH! I'm tanking these whimps! Computer> Your Capacitor is empty.
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Larton Dretta
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:51:00 -
[99]
Things you should definetly add:
Turn on the session change timer and use it.
If you leave a station and you don't feel safe, don't have means to escape, always spam CTRL+Space, if there are hostiles around, just redock after the session timer runs out. They won't be able to bump you or target you, just make sure you don't touch anything, but CTRL+Space.
If you jump into a system without a scout and find yourself surrounded by hostiles, you should hold cloak as long as you can, if you're lucky they won't uncloak you, wait for the session timer to run out and just burn back to the gate and jump.
Also mention the idea of a travel fit, especially when discussing things like MWD+Cloak.
Originally by: Andrea Griffin Activating your MWD makes your signature radius larger, which causes any locks on you to complete much more quickly. Activating the MWD first may cause someone to complete a lock before your cloak activates.
The correct way to use this trick is to activate your cloak and THEN activate your MWD. There is a second or two window in which you can activate modules after your cloak has been turned on. It takes a bit of practice to get the timing down, but you can practice up in high sec until you feel confident in your execution.
This is true, you should hit your MWD after the Cloak to be safe.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2010.12.08 12:49:00 -
[100]
Far be it from me to criticize other peoples' play styles. Personally, I doubt I have spent even 1% of my total play time performing true carebear activities, unless station-spinning is counted as such.
Still, I like to see where others' viewpoints come from. Sometimes I try to establish myself within a carebear frame, and engage in some faux, short-lived carebearing to see what kind of response I can get out of us confrontational types. Sometimes, I get a decent one. However, when this happens, I find that I am quickly able to predict my griefer's actions, and to act accordingly.
What do you know, I guess doing pvp-related things in time made me immune to pvp. It is almost as if I possess some kind of immune system that grows stronger and more resistant with increased exposure to malicious influences. If ever there was an argument that carebearing is the EVE equivalent to AIDS, I feel this is it.
Oh, and as far as the avoidance advice is concerned, it is fair and useful, but a little bit redundant. This stuff (with the exception of the more technical points like becoming unprobable) should be common sense to anyone who has played the game for a bit. It will not deter or prevent any competent pvpers from pursuing their prey. Those who do not know these points are not worth going after anyway; there is no joy in it. In fact, I would be willing to bet money that the majority of pvpers do not lust after griefing three-day-olds out of the game.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.08 13:06:00 -
[101]
why would you want to avoid pvp?
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afkalt
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Posted - 2010.12.08 14:14:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Diesel47 why would you want to avoid pvp?
Unwinnable fights, transporting goods, in a hurry, not fit for PvP...to name but a few.
My question to you: If you could avoid certain death to a blob, why wouldn't you?
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.08 14:21:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 08/12/2010 14:21:31
Originally by: afkalt
Originally by: Diesel47 why would you want to avoid pvp?
Unwinnable fights, transporting goods, in a hurry, not fit for PvP...to name but a few.
My question to you: If you could avoid certain death to a blob, why wouldn't you?
Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
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Larton Dretta
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Posted - 2010.12.08 14:38:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Diesel47 why would you want to avoid pvp?
To not lose your Rupture to a 20 man gang like a complete idiot?
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afkalt
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Posted - 2010.12.08 15:10:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 08/12/2010 14:21:31
Originally by: afkalt
Originally by: Diesel47 why would you want to avoid pvp?
Unwinnable fights, transporting goods, in a hurry, not fit for PvP...to name but a few.
My question to you: If you could avoid certain death to a blob, why wouldn't you?
Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
Please direct me to this mythical honorable duelling area you speak of!
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Target Painter
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Posted - 2010.12.08 18:17:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Diesel47 Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
Anyone that thinks most combat in EVE is fair is mentally ill. It's a game of trap/counter-trap, where you might spend an hour getting the perfect setup for a fight that lasts under 2 minutes.
If I wanted fair fights, I have Halo on my XBOX.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.09 13:20:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Diesel47 Thats not PvP. That is PvPPPPPP.
Anyone that thinks most combat in EVE is fair is mentally ill. It's a game of trap/counter-trap, where you might spend an hour getting the perfect setup for a fight that lasts under 2 minutes.
If I wanted fair fights, I have Halo on my XBOX.
I'm pretty sure you can get double teamed in Halo also.
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Target Painter
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Posted - 2010.12.10 08:30:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Target Painter on 10/12/2010 08:30:56
Originally by: Diesel47 I'm pretty sure you can get double teamed in Halo also.
I'm pretty sure I can't suddenly switch from 2v2 to 8v2 in Halo. Might be wrong though, let me check... nope, won't let my friends in.
EVE is gank or get ganked.
Originally by: afkalt Please direct me to this mythical honorable duelling area you speak of!
Amamake, top belt.
:trollface:
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.12.10 08:53:00 -
[109]
Offtopic posts removed.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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SunGod RA
Endless Destruction
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Posted - 2010.12.10 11:23:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach Basic PvP avoidance:
DON'T LOG IN.
my good sir or madam i have, if it is not to offensive to you, taken the liberty to fix your post! |
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SunGod RA
Endless Destruction
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Posted - 2010.12.10 11:46:00 -
[111]
too* (editing toasts is against my beliefs) |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.12.10 12:56:00 -
[112]
Originally by: heheheh I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Dodging/avoiding pvp isn't necessarily the same thing as not being involved in pvp at all. An escape can be a victory, too. Especially if you're running cargo past a contract scammer or something. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2010.12.10 13:46:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 10/12/2010 13:52:38 As someone learning this. My tips (probably already discussed)
Local, local, local. Watch it. If you have reds, concern yourself with getting safe. If you have nuets, find out who they are, how old, security status, are they likely to be a threat? If they look low risk, convo them, see if they are friendly, but never assume nice in chat doesn't mean he is actually approaching you cloaked.
Learn the regulars in your area, learn which are pirates which are carebears, but never assume you are safe if a player with a better ship is on grid, leave.
Cloaks are useful but NOT infallible. Any smart camp will have a fast frigate orbiting the gate at 15km with a stack of drones round it. It may or may not bump your cloak, but there is a chance you'll suddenly find yourself with your pants down.
If you take up scanning as a hobby, be VERY careful when warping to ships. Never warp to 0. If that ship happens to be at a POS, it will not take kindly to your uninvited arrival. Warp to 100km to be safe(r).
Set up your overview right. You don't want to panic because a flashy red cruiser just warped in on your when in face it's your CEO! Put all that PVE status stuff at the bottom and move corp/alliance/standings to the top. Anything that makes a player safe, above what makes them a threat.
Set up a Combat or PvP tab on the overview. Remove everything bar stations, gates and ships. No NPCs, no nothing. If you warp into a belt covered in roids, cans and other flotsam/jetsam you'll maybe miss that command ship at 80km and it can be a hassle trying to find and target stuff. Sure keep other tabs for mining/missioning, but if you smell danger switch to Pvp tab.
Finally. Just because you just got the skill to fly a BS, does not mean it won't all but insta pop the first time you meet a 5yo in a T2 cruiser. Where as a small fast ship can run from nearly any fight and are cheap to replace, allowing your to roam around and experiment.
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Isus Jarode
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.11 02:03:00 -
[114]
Funny how "gankbears" get equated to nothing more than bullies or juveniles.
Yeah, it's a sandbox. Everybody has a right to play how they damn well please. This is a true statement. But that means that we need to respect the wishes of high sec "carebears" as much as low-sec "gankbears" in the sense that some prefer to stick with economics and PvE over PvP combat. That's just how things are. Security grants high sec players the chance to experience the more peaceful aspects of the game without much stress - that's why there's low sec and nullsec, allowing for the anarchy and chaos to reward those who enjoy conflict or opportunity. So naturally you're going to get people waiting for the naive or the green to venture into that venerable waste of riches - they're hoping for luck, and the gankers are looking for a hunt.
It's about realism. Accept that there will always be opportunists and that if you choose not to live that life, then you best be prepared to evade or avoid however you can. Or else be ready to fight back. There's no "that'll just excite them," there's no "That's what they want." It's about surviving or attaining what you want, and not satisfying the "juvenile wants of the gankers" isn't going to lead to a perfect world where they eventually get bored and leave. They're here for good. So just get ready to fight or die.
So far this has been a great learning experience. I think it's not only useful for high sec folks but those in null sec too; I remember in my brief experience as a null sec n00b in an alliance, pirates and opposing forces ganked our empire lanes constantly, so we had to learn these tactics just to survive every day. These are things every player should catch on to. Keeps the blood in your body and not sucking out into space.
So yeah, a great thread. I just wish people would stop talking about each other like they're not worthy of the game.
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Dinzaiku Nagare
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Posted - 2010.12.12 09:19:00 -
[115]
Excluding some of the less intelligent posting, this thread has been a pretty interesting read.
I'll put in my two cents. I started out like most people in Eve, by running missions. I also tried out mining for a long while (mining drone arbitrator is pro) as well as some industry (built shuttles, lol). All of these things were fun and I was satisfied to keep doing them. That is, until I got my first taste of PvP (referring to player on player combat to avoid the semantics). I haven't had a mining laser cycle, Angel Extravaganza run, or successful 0.01 ISK war that gets my heart pumping like tangling with another pilot.
I won't be narrow minded. I know many legitimately enjoy the industrial side of Eve. My point is simply that every veteran carebear or new player out there should at least hop in a rifter and give PvP a try. You'd be surprised how much fun it can be. Many in this thread seem to have a very negative view of PvP. While it is true that there are many risk adverse "PvPers" out there who won't ever be seen outside of a station's docking range or won't engage unless they have a 5:1 advantage, this paints a very incomplete picture of PvP. Solo/small gang PvP is still alive, and good fights can be found if you are willing to look for them. Those in this thread who claim that PvPers are nothing but "sociopathic gankers" are just as wrong as the PvPers who claim that carebears are just "mindless noobs".
That being said, the OP has some good advice. Instawarps and other safes/BMs are like coupons; you can never have too many. Good bookmarks have saved my skin on multiple occasions.
A word on avoiding probes: Sometimes making an "unprobable" fit can be infeasible without gimping a setup. If this is the case, or in any case really, becoming good friends with your directional scanner is one of the best things a pilot in Eve can do. If someone unfriendly pops into local, keep refreshing your d-scan for probes (remember to have probes on overview, or at least uncheck the 'use active overview settings' tab) and try to stay aligned to something you can warp to. Most importantly, always stay aware of your surroundings. If a pirate warps into your mission/plex and you aren't paying attention, you deserve to get ganked.
Reiterating my original point: Even the most hardcore carebears should at least have a basic grasp on how to fit and fly a PvP ship. You never know when it could come in handy. Dieing in a fail fit will only get you ridicule, but hostiles will think twice about hunting a 'bear who has shown it has teeth.
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Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.12 13:09:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Annie Anomie on 12/12/2010 13:11:35 About station undocks:
When you undock you're booted out at OVER your maximum speed therefore aligning anywhere is extra slow.
I don't know how this interacts with the cloak-align thing but you're generally better either warping to an insta or just waiting out your session timer and redocking.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2010.12.12 23:23:00 -
[117]
The problem of an un-scannable ship is the tank for that L5, so must take some type of risk. In this case there are proper probers that will scan down you in few time. It's matter of luck for this situation, if you have bad luck of have a good prober in low-sec or not, so no 100% safe way:
[Nighthawk, Neutralizer Destroyer] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Belonging to EFT, this boat with Guristas tanks 1986DPS. This time is the most dangerous part, as stated above. Have not checked if would be "unstable" but enough switching 1 SPR -> 1 Caldari Navy BCU, for destroy towers faster. As have said others, of course spam the directional scanner button every time the rats leave you time. Maybe you have luck of having a "noob" prober :) After the neutralizer towers have been destroyed.... bring the active Tengu:
[Tengu, One-dot-oh-eight] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Signature radius: 150m Gravimetric Strenght: 194.8 So has a ratio 1,29 > 1,08. However, follow spamming the Directional Scanner, as they can still probe you, but the knowledge and practise that requires that "epic situation" is only for a very small group of choosen people, and however requires time and a real dedication to it (without counting expensive implants) Belonging to EFT, this boat with Guristas tanks 1188DPS. And testing from SiSi says me that is enough, even spamming the directional button to get in use when do it in TQ.
I hope always will have a little piece of time, not enough to do another mission, to handle the close-range BS and be the bad part of the equation :[ |
Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:08:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Birdman Ravo on 13/12/2010 03:12:52
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
IMO There's a difference between avoiding PVP and being a coward. This crosses that line.
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afkalt
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Posted - 2010.12.13 16:14:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo Edited by: Birdman Ravo on 13/12/2010 03:12:52
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
IMO There's a difference between avoiding PVP and being a coward. This crosses that line.
Just as there's a difference between a wardec for a legitimate reason vs a wardec to be an asshat.
Yes, such terms are subjective and I make no attempt to draw any sort of lines, its a fact regardless.
In terms of "honor" or "nobility"
legit wardec == legit PvP avoidance asshat wardec == hiding in NPC corps.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which wardec fits where.
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Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2010.12.14 01:02:00 -
[120]
Originally by: afkalt Just as there's a difference between a wardec for a legitimate reason vs a wardec to be an asshat.
Yes, such terms are subjective and I make no attempt to draw any sort of lines, its a fact regardless.
In terms of "honor" or "nobility"
legit wardec == legit PvP avoidance asshat wardec == hiding in NPC corps.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which wardec fits where.
Something I think is important to say - this wardec strategy leaves a permanent mark in your corp history. The repeated act of leaving and joining a bear corp can be seen by others as a red flag saying "I jump ship when the going gets rough." Some corps won't take you in because of it. A corp could wardec you on interval just for the tears. It's been done before. IMO Leaving a corp should be less of a routine and more of a last resort.
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