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Talon Kitsune
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.08.03 09:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I was reading through the minutes recently posted elsewhere, and for the most part it was informative, but not really all that 'exciting', but what drew my attention was Soundwave's bit about ring mining. I'm a miner, but aside from that it drew my attention to CCP's failure to recognize that low/null needs more incentives, and at the same time high sec needs to stop being seen as a starter zone. There will always be those of us who want the lower risk life.
Ring mining. Low/null only? Hmph. For a company that seems to have the goal of wanting Hi-Sec to be a starter zone you guys sure don't act like it. By putting ring mining in low/null only you entice miners out of hi-sec, no doubt. The problem is by not putting them in high-sec, you don't allow people to test them out in a low risk environment. Simply lower the yields, the profit. This way the high-sec miners can try it out, and if they like it and want to make real money off it, they move into low/null to pursue it. Yes you will have some that will ring mine in high forever regardless, but it ups the chance of migration more than simply saying "nope you don't get this."
Accept that there will always be those who prefer the hi-sec life, those who don't want a target on their back 24/7. Everything that's available in low/null should be available in high in a lesser form. This way it allows players to get into it, and gives them some real ideas about what they'd be looking at on other side. Now you also need reciprocity though, which isn't there. Low/null needs to have all the options of high. Industry/mining/PvE all of it across the board has to be raised up to the point where it's not just a bit more profitable, but a ton more profitable.
Simplest way I can think of accomplishing this? High-sec profit values stay as is (except perhaps lvl 3 missions, new players trying to get into lvl 4's are in hell) and maybe add the chance for some faction loot from missioning (not a high one mind you, just enough to give the high-sec'ers a taste of what's out there). Then you up low and null by 100-200% across the board. Mission rewards, rat bounties, mining (maybe create new variations of the high-sec ores in low sec that are far higher yield), all of it. And maybe consider adding a few Concord bastions in 0.0 (a single high-sec sector). One in the north, one south, one east, one west. The safe trade spots. The Jita's of low sec.
I could go on, but this wall of text is long enough, and I honestly doubt anyone other than the trolls will read it, but I've come to believe if you don't say anything, can't expect any change. So take it for what it is, just some feedback. |
Cyprus Black
Perkone Caldari State
294
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
In my eyes, low and nullsec just don't exist. I have zero interest in anything the two areas have to offer and I won't even consider going back again. Low and null simply don't exist to me anymore.
And I'm certainly not the only one who shares that mentality. It's not that I'm adverse to PvP, I love it. However the game mechanics and player politics are so unforgivably awful in low and especially null. Hijinks of a highsec pirate http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2105
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Posted - 2012.08.03 14:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
You guys do understand that ring mining is for a resource that is currently unavailable in highsec, right?
This would change precisely nothing for you. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2105
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 14:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:The new lowsec gate gun changes look promising
Per Greyscale, they're also not coming any time soon. It's theorycraft from a CSM meeting so far as we know. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
114
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Posted - 2012.08.03 15:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I question the logic of trying to entice helpless ships into PvP areas.
You can add all kinds of value, but if acquisition makes you a sitting duck, it weakens the draw. Lowsec content currently favors the aggressor/pirate. That needs to change IMHO, and there are lots of ways to do it. The problem is that I hear a lot of GÇ£I want more PvP!GÇ¥ and GÇ£LetGÇÖs get more people in lowsec!GÇ¥ but often really mean GÇ£I want more easy kills that have nice modules.GÇ¥ ThatGÇÖs a problem because the aggressors want the odds in their favor.
So no, I donGÇÖt think ring mining should be a lowsec only thing. I also think it should be highly dangerous to a ship not specialize/fit for it, esp. in lowsec. I would like to see it mask signatures so that ships are hard to find.
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Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
903
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Posted - 2012.08.03 17:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
I also want to safely mine technetium in fleets of skiffs in hisec. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
59
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Posted - 2012.08.03 18:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
As for the points about how its not fair that industrial players shouldn't be forced into low/null.
If you don't want to risk going out there, then that's your decision.
But the idea is that the people that actually have the balls to do so will reap the rewards.
The chain of pvp in low/null goes like this:
Farmers (ratting ravens are just as helpless as mining barges) get preyed on by solo and small gangs.
Solo people get preyed on by small gangs and medium gangs.
Small gangs get preyed on by mid-size gangs.
Mid-size gangs get preyed on by large gangs.
Large gangs fight other large gangs.
The point is that increased rewards in low/null means that there's more farmers, which means increased pvp across the board. The more people that are in space, potentially dying, the better.
But you might say: All I do is hisec industry... what do I care about increased pvp?
Increased PVP means more ships dying. More ships dying means that the market doesn't stagnate, and that demand remains high. Higher the demand, the more money you can make off your products.
So even if ccp releases an industry buff to low/null, even the hisec-only players gain from it.
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Talon Kitsune
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.08.04 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:You guys do understand that ring mining is for a resource that is currently unavailable in highsec, right?
This would change precisely nothing for you.
Obviously, but it shouldn't be that hard to create a version of ring mining that doesn't provide tech but still gives the hi-sec folk a chance to see what it's about. Even if you did leave tech in at say 10% of a low or null version, given the current state of tech markets, would that really be a bad thing? Yes it'd provide a high-sec souce of tech, but an incredibly small one, and besides it doesn't appear ring mining will be afk friendly, and that's all we high sec'ers are right? Afk bots :P
Bottomline: When it comes to new features like this, I'm not saying give high sec a seat at the table, but toss a few scraps our way. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
593
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Posted - 2012.08.04 09:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
People actually still do stuff in hisec?
Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
23
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Posted - 2012.08.04 10:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:You guys do understand that ring mining is for a resource that is currently unavailable in highsec, right?
This would change precisely nothing for you.
Actually that's incorrect, if you merely point your probes at hisec moons, minerals are there, it's the extraction array anchoring restriction that stops us from getting at them. |
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Obsidiana
White-Noise
115
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Posted - 2012.08.04 19:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:As for the points about how its not fair that industrial players shouldn't be forced into low/null.
If you don't want to risk going out there, then that's your decision.
But the idea is that the people that actually have the balls to do so will reap the rewards.
The chain of pvp in low/null goes like this:
Farmers (ratting ravens are just as helpless as mining barges) get preyed on by solo and small gangs.
...
The point is that increased rewards in low/null means that there's more farmers, which means increased pvp across the board. The more people that are in space, potentially dying, the better.
My point is that this logic only will draw in those willing to take high risk for moderate rewards. There are common complaints about lowsec being too steep of an increase in risk for a marginal increase in rewards. Any edge taken off that risk will increase the amount of people in lowsec. That is another complaint: too few people in lowsec. Solo/Small gang PvPers need to ask for more challenging victims. Failure to take their needs and survival rates into account has led us to where we are. People want to get out there, but the risks vs. reward needs re-balancing. Mindsets need to change. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1045
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 19:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
see, the problem is that low/null make you work with people ... not just your army of 15 mackinaws and an orca... |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 03:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:see, the problem is that low/null make you work with people ... not just your army of 15 mackinaws and an orca...
There is no force. People solo mine and PvP in lowsec all the time. It does work better if you work with a group, or at least backup to call in.
That said, sitting in a paper thin shell of a ship where any one is allowed to come in and shoot you is a bad idea.
Also, IMHO and experience, nullsec is safer than lowsec. The group I worked with at the time showed up faster than Concord when I needed help. My lowsec experiences were less pleasant. |
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