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Weasel Juice
Exanimo Inc Anger Management.
4
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Imagine a scenario where somebody overly pimps a ship with officer and/or high grade deadspace modules for better PvE performance. He pays X isk for the whole fitting. Now after he earns another X isk with that ship + fitting, he assumes the fitting paid for itself and is now showing the extra profit. Wait a second, you don't need to imagine that. You all probably know people yourself that do that way.
Why are people that dumb?
The way I see it:
Compare two Tengus, one being a staple T2 fit costing 500mil overall including ship, the other one pimped out costing 5bil including ship.
Now the T2 fit, with whatever you are doing, can produce a solid 80mil per hour. The pimped fit, doing the same thing, can produce a solid 100mil per hour.
So the pimped fit will pay back for itself *when* that extra 20mil per hour covers the difference between the 500mil and the 5bil. Meaning the majority will believe that the pimped fit paid for itself whenever you have earned 5bil - BUT...
... in truth it will have paid for itself whenever you have earned 22.5bil with these figures. This becomes even more extreme when you have a simple T2 fit, with faction damage mods. Then all the faction painters and super expensive tanks don't really contribute that much anymore.
Now I do realize that making a ship expensive it can have its benefits: * It can be an entry card for certain incursion fleets (ISN) - which naturally give a lot more profit. But incursions are arguably the smallest percentage of carebearing. * It can allow to be able to do certain sites to begin with. Switch your ship for an Ishtar, or just fit the bare minimum tank for any site you do.
But the brutal truth is: You will lose your ship sooner or later. Making it utterly expensive effectively removes CONCORD protection (yes they will still take revenge, but that won't matter if you lose 5bil, and the suicide gankers only lose a couple hundred mil in nados, while potentially looting several billion of your loot - and the more expensive your ship gets, the more likely this will be).
And if you live in 0.0/lowsec, you will be hunted regardless - well even more so if they know you are flying shiny. * Eventually you will do a mistake * Eventually you will be unlucky * Eventually you will have a backstabber in your corp * Eventually you will have a bug that GMs cannot verify through logs * -> Eventually you will lose your ship. Add the fact that people never sell their shiny mods back, they are effectively *spent*, instead of being an re-sellable investment - unless they want to upgrade, which just amplifies everything.
Do people just fail at basic math?
Or is this all just about feeling good when you see all those green, blue and purple things in your mods icons? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4383
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're correct, but why should you care? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Weasel Juice
Exanimo Inc Anger Management.
4
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm merely curious about the stupidity of people so I can exploit that! |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
159
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Weasel Juice wrote:I'm merely curious about the stupidity of people so I can exploit that!
JUST KIDDING GUYS I DID THE MATH AGAIN AND OFFICER MODS PAY FOR THEMSELVES IN LIKE AN HOUR PLEASE LIKE MY POST IF I JUST HELPED YOU MAKE A FITTING DECISION |
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
70
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
I feel you...this might not be really related but i also really wonder who those people are undercutting jita sell orders by lets say...2 million per battleship.
"Oh look at me i sell my stuff so cheap nobody will dare to sell theirs cheaper then mine, i rule the market hurrrr!"
Sudden clarity hits when they realize they are not only undercut 30 seconds later but chopped of a good profit of their own sale.
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Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
65
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Posted - 2012.08.03 10:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iv held onto all 3 of my Exhumers since I bought them, and that was months ago. If your smart about it you can hold onto something for a long time.
Not to mention you forgot the number 1 reason people fit things like that, E-peen, nothing more. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
146
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you pass Incursion systems you see tons of stupitly expensive fitted ships linked in local so these guys get invites in fleets. Sad thing about this is that these ships are mostly ******** fitted ( officer cap rechargers anyone ) and the only reason to fit those modules was the price and not the effectivness.
Please refrain from teaching these people, they provide great content when they appear on Killboards...
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Cap'in Haddock
Haddock's Legitimate Trading
1
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Personally, I bling up knowing full well that it wont pay for itself any time soon, but doing missions that few minutes faster makes a whole bunch of difference when you're on limited timescales. Makes the difference between finishing a mission and not bothering to start it because you dont have time. |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
509
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
What do you expect when they spend ISK on very little else, that's their end game effectively. I learned early on in my time in EVE that those loot pinatas can attract all the wrong attention. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
malcovas Henderson
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
118
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
I do hear what you are saying OP.........But, I know, I know there is always a but. If you got 5 billion to spend, why not spend it?
o7 |
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36 Degrees
Sexy. Time.
1
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
I suicide pimped tengus in empire for big profits and run my own pimped macharial in null doing anoms, what now :S |
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
20
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
posting in a tengu thread |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Weasel Juice wrote:Or is this all just about feeling good when you see all those green, blue and purple things in your mods icons?
That's it. And since carebears are rediculous rich, they dont care about any ROI. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
283
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
tl;dr OP fails to understand the opportunity cost of money but berates other people on doing their profit calculations wrong. |
LASHA MPO
One Horse Trading
2
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
I pimped up 3 flycatchers for my 3 mains and fly level 4 missions in them. The ISK isn't important in these circumstances - risk V reward doesn't come into it, it's the knowledge that if you **** up then it's going to hurt. Same sort of thing as doing downhill on a mountain bike, but without the possibility of actual physical pain.
That's why I pimped out. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
20
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with the OP. I just don't really care some people are stupid like that, because I'd be the one salvaging their wreck and clearing their cargo after dropping on them with the gang (should they ever enter lowsec in such a fit). If anything, more people should fit like that and come derp in lowsec. This is good for our income, so I have a hard time telling people they shouldn't. I can recommend anyone in such a fit to come and try their luck!
If you have the money for it, I don't see anything inherently wrong with investing ISK you will probably never get back: you get the fun of using it for a while in return. If that alone is reason enough to blow your ISK, by all means do so. If you play clever with such a fit and keep it in one piece for a few months, that's even better. But in the end you are going to lose it. So... do so gracefully (without whining in local) and you'll have my respect. And I'll have your mods, thank you very much!
Personally you'd never hear me say such a thing, because making truckloads of ISK is more important to me then running PvE content a tad faster. I have corpmates, and I'd rather have their entire ship at my side then solo lowsec in a fully officer-fitted blingboat. I always fly some cheap brick, so I can easily shrug off the odd loss and come back for more. |
Pinks Taco
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
-1 no TLDR |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
174
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
but bro... max yield... I NEED IT |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
376
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
I want to see this 22b tengu fit.
And I thought the 4b machariels were overkill "This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Caitlyn Tufy
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
22
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Weasel Juice wrote:Compare two Tengus, one being a staple T2 fit costing 500mil overall including ship
Where? :)
Assuming the lowest prices, basic mission Tengu: Hull: 200M Defensive - Amplification Node: 50M Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer: 42M Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir: 40M Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay: 110M Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst: 49M
total: 491M without any mods whatsoever. Do note that this includes a number of subsystems bought in 0.0, Jita/Amarr variant is approximately 50-100M more expensive, plus another 200M or so for the fit, assuming no faction items at all, while standard Tengu will run with at least faction AB, 4 BCUs and deadspace shield booster, for approximately 1 billion cost.
Just pointing out the obvious, because I'm evil and nitpicky :p |
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Ghazu
14
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Posted - 2012.08.03 12:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Back in the day it was funny as hell to blitz all the incursion sites and make the scrubs cry. |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
553
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
It seems like you don't understand how everyone has different wants. Not everyone is spending billions in fitting just to squeeze out 0.05% addition in performance and efficiency. Have you ever considered the fact that they do so because not everyone is risk-averse and some people like to embellish themselves with "pretty stuff?" Have you also considered the fact that everyone's level of disposable income is different?
You are quite content with your $50 dollar Columbia backpack. When you see someone with Hermes bag that costs $4,500, does that mean they are stupid? I don't think so.
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The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
553
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:tl;dr OP fails to understand the opportunity cost of money but berates other people on doing their profit calculations wrong.
True that. And the basic understanding of economics. |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
376
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Antiquarian wrote:...
Listen to this guy. His avatar has a real in-game tin-foil hat.
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
553
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:The Antiquarian wrote:...
Listen to this guy. His avatar has a real in-game tin-foil hat.
Wow... another extremely insightful comment, relevant to this posting.
And what is the point of making fun of an avatar? Look at yours. Your avatar looks like a Cambodian war victim who has been malnourished for several decades. |
March rabbit
R.I.P. Legion Red Alliance
238
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Weasel Juice wrote: The way I see it:
Compare two Tengus, one being a staple T2 fit costing 500mil overall including ship, the other one pimped out costing 5bil including ship.
Now the T2 fit, with whatever you are doing, can produce a solid 80mil per hour. The pimped fit, doing the same thing, can produce a solid 100mil per hour.
what if we take another example? - T2 fit tengu you can't run this complex (too low DPS/tank/whatever) - pimped fit tengu can run this complex
And now: when do you think your fit will paid back for itself? |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
385
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
I always fly with the cheapest fitting possible commensurate with the task in hand.
I am just too mean to waste isk. You want fries with that? |
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
376
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Antiquarian wrote:Shameless Avenger wrote:The Antiquarian wrote:...
Listen to this guy. His avatar has a real in-game tin-foil hat. Wow... another extremely insightful comment, relevant to this posting. And what is the point of making fun of an avatar? Look at yours. Your avatar looks like a Cambodian war victim who has been malnourished for several decades.
it was a compliment :\
"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro" |
Hammer Borne
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Posting in a thread meant to detect people who use Officer mods... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4387
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:tl;dr OP fails to understand the opportunity cost of money but berates other people on doing their profit calculations wrong.
Can you explain to me please? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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