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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Freibuis
Legion of Lost Souls The Lego Cartel
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:25:00 -
[271] - Quote
ok I have been doing some theory craft on SIS on the last day.
--start rant-- and here are my thoughts
Hulks and macks are currently too expensive for the amount of ore mined compared to the difference of ore mined with the other hulls. This is because (from the stats that I have been getting on my maxed chars) the ore gap is now very narrow compared pre-patch. I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am just saying I dont see the point of using Hulks/Mac compared to the relatively cheap replacement cost of the other hulls.
on the Ice side. Macs probably be the Botters dream... 30 Mins with out needing to be unload/docked. heck I am not complaining. maybe my R.S.I. will heal, but I do think this is a little to long. may be 20mins tops (based on perfect high sec stats of 67 blocks and 35 Block capacity
Also due to the changes in ore capicity and the increase in ore amount per cycle for the retriever having 6.25 cycles and 4398.04 m3 per cycle real world high sec max stats. means that AFK mining is now possible and heck @ the current prices of trit you could replace this cheap ship in about 2 hours compared to a hulk which is a 30+ hours. Granted Hulk makes more, but compared to the prepatch the retreiver earners more then before and the hulk stays the around the same. we should see an uptick in retriever cost and a hulks to retract a little in value.
it looks like the price devaluation is happening now with Hulks having 2 Dev blogs (tech and mining change) with in a week the price has dropped already. you can overlay both dev blogs over the prices history and see perfect market reaction.
interesting time indeed to be part of the eve online experience.
--end rant-- |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
373
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:28:00 -
[272] - Quote
WHAT ABOUT A GAS MINING SHIP? |
Freibuis
Legion of Lost Souls The Lego Cartel
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:32:00 -
[273] - Quote
Kristen Andelare wrote:For the one or two people who keep requesting a drop in the calibration of the new specialty rigs to 200, so they can fit two:
One one rig of this type can be fitted to a single ship (that means, you're not allowed to fit a Ice and Mercoxit rig to the same ship). That was on the rig description on Sisi when they FIRST released them, when the calibration was only 50. They were never intended to be fit in pairs. Raising the calibration to 250 is INTENDED, to prevent that exact thing. I hope that is now clear. That's why they're going to ignore your pleas.
I could not agree more.
what about a compromise. How about droping it to 200 and negating a 2nd one if used, tgat way you could multi Role the mining vessel. 1xMercoxit rig and 1 x ice rig..
1 ship that could fit 2 role if needed.
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Freibuis
Legion of Lost Souls The Lego Cartel
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:35:00 -
[274] - Quote
Freibuis wrote:ok I have been doing some theory craft on SIS on the last day.
--start rant-- and here are my thoughts
Hulks and macks are currently too expensive for the amount of ore mined compared to the difference of ore mined with the other hulls. This is because (from the stats that I have been getting on my maxed chars) the ore gap is now very narrow compared pre-patch. I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am just saying I dont see the point of using Hulks/Mac compared to the relatively cheap replacement cost of the other hulls.
on the Ice side. Macs probably be the Botters dream... 30 Mins with out needing to be unload/docked. heck I am not complaining. maybe my R.S.I. will heal, but I do think this is a little to long. may be 20mins tops (based on perfect high sec stats of 67 blocks and 35 Block capacity
Also due to the changes in ore capicity and the increase in ore amount per cycle for the retriever having 6.25 cycles and 4398.04 m3 per cycle real world high sec max stats. means that AFK mining is now possible and heck @ the current prices of trit you could replace this cheap ship in about 2 hours compared to a hulk which is a 30+ hours. Granted Hulk makes more, but compared to the prepatch the retreiver earners more then before and the hulk stays the around the same. we should see an uptick in retriever cost and a hulks to retract a little in value.
it looks like the price devaluation is happening now with Hulks having 2 Dev blogs (tech and mining change) with in a week the price has dropped already. you can overlay both dev blogs over the prices history and see perfect market reaction.
interesting time indeed to be part of the eve online experience.
--end rant--
I forgot to mention retriever can fit about 9 cycles with cargo rigs. thats about 30mins afk as well
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Zev Lothair
Dalek TacOps - Caldari Div
0
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:23:00 -
[275] - Quote
Kristen Andelare wrote:Zev Lothair wrote:My alt is a solo miner with a hulk - the Hulk did fit my play style and now it is just going to sit useless so i will just have to pick up a Mackinaw to take longer to mine & hope I don't chewed up by rats too badly. I solo because I want to and the hours I play are random.
CCP changes the rules so we change to suit or stop playing, it's that simple.
While I think of the Hulk as the king of the miners CCP either does not or have decided to change the king so just get use to it. If it is as bad as people think then the drop in mineral production will show up in the numbers quickly and there will be changes
The Mack a much better tank than the Hulk ever did. You'll be safer than ever from those rats you seem to fear. 30-40k EHP with skills a decent fitting, since you no longer will be fitting cargo rigs and expanders on it, you've got at least one rig slot to help the tank, plus an extra low you didn't have before. You'll survive the experience.
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Gainard
Eurotech Industries
69
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:05:00 -
[276] - Quote
So the Hulk outmines the Mack in ICE - clever move. And Hulk cargo hold nerved to near nil. Can i get a refund for the cargohold rigs? I have been training like an idiot to become a perfect miner, after this "update" I become a perfect idiot. Thanks. For UI look up FUBAR on Google. For EVE see SNAFU. url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_slang_terms |
Freibuis
Legion of Lost Souls The Lego Cartel
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:18:00 -
[277] - Quote
Gainard wrote:So the Hulk outmines the Mack in ICE - clever move. And Hulk cargo hold nerved to near nil. Can i get a refund for the cargohold rigs? I have been training like an idiot to become a perfect miner, after this "update" I become a perfect idiot. Thanks.
I wouldnt say wasted. This means now you can play you own style instead of being funneled down 1 choice of hulk.. or what was the other choice again.. oh yeah thats right.. a hulk,
example: you want to play the AFK game.. you can.. if you want to MAX RSI Game. there is now something in it for you to.
Basically the hulk really hasnt changed. excecpt for ice. But will mean that it will need at least 2 chars mininium to support it (mining logistics & mining hauling). so basically this is for at least a fleet of a minimum 4 hulks. cargo space hasnt changed that much for it. you can put cargo rigs on it. every one keeps saying its nerfed.. hmm doesnt look that nerfed. if you are putting it beside another new mining hull then I understand that.
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
207
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:32:00 -
[278] - Quote
I seriously dont get all the whining, I for one am very happy and cant wait to hit the belts again after a long break from mining! |
Gainard
Eurotech Industries
69
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:39:00 -
[279] - Quote
Well one could say the roles of Hulk and Mack have been reversed. In case of Hulk mining ice even the efficiency is improved. And The mack with 35k orehold is now ideal for solo mining - ice or ore though ore with reduced efficieny.
Even the if effective ore volume is not that much different there is a catch: My hulk has a cargohold of 11520m^3, good for almost two cycles. After the mining I can fit two expanders making for almost 19k to carry my crystals away. After the nerf it will be 8000 ore and 350 cargo (~490 with the 2 T2 cargohold optimizers - if they dont get blown away with the calibration nerf ). That means when solo mining and refining in system I still have to get a hauler to carry the refined crystals away as they wont go into the ore hold - even if I use the Mack. In the end it makes solo mining that much less effective. For UI look up FUBAR on Google. For EVE see SNAFU. url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_slang_terms |
Gainard
Eurotech Industries
69
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:50:00 -
[280] - Quote
Forgot one thing: With the unified inventory the two holds will mean even more fiddeling with windows I hope they put the orehold in the right click menu! For UI look up FUBAR on Google. For EVE see SNAFU. url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_slang_terms |
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denbot
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:58:00 -
[281] - Quote
CCP. I just wanted to thank you for the changes you made to the barges. I look forward to using them with a smile knowing I will be safer in space. Keep up the good work. Just wondering ? Is the Ore mining frigate coming on August 8th ? I would love to see more Ore ships rise up in the future to. Happy Miner denbot |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials STR8NGE BREW
64
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:48:00 -
[282] - Quote
SkullKn0cker wrote:However I don't understand the 1 cycle to fill up the hulk.. That really makes no since to me. I do understand the idea it's going more the fleet miner now, tbh it was already basically but was also good for solo mining. I don't believe letting the hulk have 2 or 3 cycles in it's hold would be bad. Those of us who have been carrying a nearly full-spread of crystals have been working with one-cycle holds for quite some time. It's not that painful. Not being able to carry a full spread, though... *THAT* is painful. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
365
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:49:00 -
[283] - Quote
Rig material lists are on Sisi now
Hulk now has the patch notes ore hold as well. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
110
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:52:00 -
[284] - Quote
Please compare a Noctis's HP to the Hulk and let me know if this is reasonable.
Thanks, Drox |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
365
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:52:00 -
[285] - Quote
denbot wrote:CCP. I just wanted to thank you for the changes you made to the barges. I look forward to using them with a smile knowing I will be safer in space. Keep up the good work. Just wondering ? Is the Ore mining frigate coming on August 8th ? I would love to see more Ore ships rise up in the future to. Happy Miner denbot No |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
365
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Posted - 2012.08.06 15:57:00 -
[286] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:Please compare a Noctis's HP to the Hulk and let me know if this is reasonable.
Thanks, Drox With my skills noc is 8520 and the hulk is 9095. That is with nothing fitted. For what they are suppost to do and where they are suppost to go. Thats fine. When you take noctis thru WH for looting you take the risk. That is what EVE is. Same with hulks plan and win. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
110
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Posted - 2012.08.06 16:50:00 -
[287] - Quote
The new Hulk's HP should not be worse than the old Hulk's HP. One of the redesign changes was to make them less like tissue paper. If the new EHP is worse, then don't do it and just change the cargo bays and leave everything else alone.
I was expecting something where the Skiff is baseline HP, Mackinaw is 75% Skiff HP, and Hulk is 50% Skiff HP. These are balanced by Skiff has Worst Yield and middle cargo. Mack has middle yield and best cargo. Hulk has best yield and worst cargo. From my pick 2 good abilities concept, all three have "equal" yields, but to differentiate, they should be at 90%, 95%, and 100%.
Hulk: 100% Yield (1739139 Veld/Hr) 90-100% ? 75% ? 50% HP (14545.5) 25% Cargo (8750)
Mackinaw: 100% Cargo (35000) 95% Yield (1652182 Veld/Hr) 75% HP (21818.25) 50% ? 25% ?
Skiff: 100% HP (29091) 90% Yield (1565225 Veld/Hr) 75% Cargo (26250) 50% Extra Speed (200 m/s base) 25% ?
See, Game Design is easy! Drox |
Kristen Andelare
Abacus Industries Group Aerodyne Collective
17
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:27:00 -
[288] - Quote
For those looking for the details from the materials tab on the new rigs, they're on Sisi now.
Unresearched (10% waste)
Medium Ice Harvester Cycle Time Rig: Conductive Polymer 13 Fried Interface Circuit 18 Smashed Trigger Unit 9 Tripped Power Circuit 22
Medium Mercoxit Mining Rig: Conductive Polymer 13 Defective Current Pump 8 Fried Interface Circuit 18 Tripped Power Circuit 22
4 ingredients per rig, that's new. |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials STR8NGE BREW
64
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:51:00 -
[289] - Quote
Y'know... we've had only one dev response to this whole thread... Apart from forum warriors like CCP Sreegs, it makes me wonder how many actually read and/or act upon the comments we make. Half the time, it seems like they don't even bother paying attention to the CSM.
/bittervet |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2012.08.06 20:13:00 -
[290] - Quote
Atum wrote:Y'know... we've had only one dev response to this whole thread... Don't exaggerate. There have been TWO dev responses thus far (albeit one of which was not entirely correct). lol :) |
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Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.08.06 20:42:00 -
[291] - Quote
This is a lie---> Hulk
GÇóRole is now exhumer with superior mining output
Apart from an extra 1% bonus to mining Ice, everything else is exactly the same as it is now (except the new orehold holds less than present cargohold+rigs)
All the other bonuses are EXACTLY THE SAME
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
544
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Posted - 2012.08.06 20:47:00 -
[292] - Quote
Amber Solaire wrote:This is a lie---> Hulk
GÇóRole is now exhumer with superior mining output
Apart from an extra 1% bonus to mining Ice, everything else is exactly the same as it is now (except the new orehold holds less than present cargohold+rigs)
All the other bonuses are EXACTLY THE SAME
Still has a superior output to the other exhumers, no? FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.08.06 20:58:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jake Rivers wrote:So CCP Masterplan, why do you think there should only be 13 crystals in the hulk? Is this just tailored for the high sec miners?
I know you guys must of discussed this in detail, but really how does this make a group mining fleet more interactive by adding tasks that no one in the fleet will want to do?
I like my hulks and will continue to use them, but I can't understand why we can't have a bigger selection.
I do plan out my mining activities, I even go as far as to make a list of what I am going to hit so I can sort out what to bring with my little fleet of 3 hulks, but even the best laid plans go to hell when unknown variables come into play. IE: used crystals/other people hitting the same target rocks and some rocks already partially depleted, just to name a few.
When I get home from work and want to do something, I like to get down to it. Not have to interrupt things 20 minutes after I get settled in. This already happens enough when neuts enter the system you are mining in, why should there be more things to go wrong?
It appears the Devs never took into account the size of tech2 mining crystals (50m3)
Probably never heard of them
7 spare t2 crystals is definitely not enough
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Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
110
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:02:00 -
[294] - Quote
Amber Solaire wrote:It appears the Devs never took into account the size of tech2 mining crystals (50m3) Probably never heard of them 7 spare t2 crystals is definitely not enough
The Beta Shrink Ray module hit them for a 50% size reduction. |
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows TriMark Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.08.06 21:28:00 -
[295] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:Amber Solaire wrote:It appears the Devs never took into account the size of tech2 mining crystals (50m3) Probably never heard of them 7 spare t2 crystals is definitely not enough The Beta Shrink Ray module hit them for a 50% size reduction.
We need the Beta Ray Shrink module treatment on the T1 Ice Harvesters and T1 Strip Miners too. They are too big now. Never understood why they were so huge to begin with, unless as a factor of how large the crystal is (since theirs is "built in"). But if you shrunk the T2 Crystals and T1 crystals, just aim that thing over at those two T1 modules and get them into a proper scope as well. Thank You. |
nardaq
Orion Expeditions
25
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Posted - 2012.08.06 22:12:00 -
[296] - Quote
Kristen Andelare wrote:For those looking for the details from the materials tab on the new rigs, they're on Sisi now.
Unresearched (10% waste)
Medium Ice Harvester Cycle Time Rig: Conductive Polymer 13 Fried Interface Circuit 18 Smashed Trigger Unit 9 Tripped Power Circuit 22
Medium Mercoxit Mining Rig: Conductive Polymer 13 Defective Current Pump 8 Fried Interface Circuit 18 Tripped Power Circuit 22
4 ingredients per rig, that's new. calibration cost 250 0f 400, so u can only use one and regular T1)100) or T2(150) rig and of course no mining laser rig |
Solomon Cross
CTEC LLC
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 22:51:00 -
[297] - Quote
Alystin Wyndyl wrote:Droxlyn wrote:Amber Solaire wrote:It appears the Devs never took into account the size of tech2 mining crystals (50m3) Probably never heard of them 7 spare t2 crystals is definitely not enough The Beta Shrink Ray module hit them for a 50% size reduction. We need the Beta Ray Shrink module treatment on the T1 Ice Harvesters and T1 Strip Miners too. They are too big now. Never understood why they were so huge to begin with, unless as a factor of how large the crystal is (since theirs is "built in"). But if you shrunk the T2 Crystals and T1 crystals, just aim that thing over at those two T1 modules and get them into a proper scope as well. Thank You.
The size of the Ice Harvester I and Strip Miner I are to make them less desirable for mineral compression. |
Cpt Bogus
Whimsical Mining Refining and Exploration
2
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Posted - 2012.08.07 01:56:00 -
[298] - Quote
I generally like what I'm seeing here, especially with regards to yield. I'm not a miner myself but I can't help but wonder whether the jacked-up mineral prices have at least some to do with there being a lot of junior, non-macro miners who can't afford or are unable to fly a 300 million isk highly gankable ship and instead have to go with something with about half the effective yield.
Better ice mining bonuses on the Mackinaw might be good, though. I'm tempted to say an across-the-board increase in yield is in order but perhaps the introduction of new BCs and destroyers, and impending cruiser rebalance, will change the paradigm that you need 100+ million worth of ship to do interesting stuff. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
634
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Posted - 2012.08.07 02:44:00 -
[299] - Quote
So, I Kinda like all of this. so will exhumers and covetors no longer need astrology 5? the most annoying skill in the universe? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
548
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Posted - 2012.08.07 02:56:00 -
[300] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:So, I Kinda like all of this. so will exhumers and covetors no longer need astrology 5? the most annoying skill in the universe?
Exhumers (the skill) needs Astrogeology 5
Mining Barge (the skill) needs 3 (and so do the barges themselves. Not entirely sure why, but it does)
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
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