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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Azemar on 18/10/2010 02:13:24 I was thinking this over, and there is no way that CCP has not touched base on this topic. But why don't they sell training multipliers? I'n not new to the game, so this is not a crying post. I've trained many things and i know that the training times are well thought out and balanced. I just feel you could incorporate this, while keeping this level on balance intact. Before anyone on this forum starts bashing, i am very well aware that if they sold this on a dramatic scale it would ruin the game. But think about it, whats the harm in having say different training multipliers (1.2x, 1.4x, 1.6x, 1.8x, and the max is 2x)and for only a certain amount of skill points. that would still keep the game intact, promote more players to play, and make CCP more money to give us more content? You could use in-game money, or RL money. What are their reasons for not enacting such a thing?
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Blnukem 192
Amarr Creed.
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:07:00 -
[2]
Originally by: CCP Navigator This is really not worthy of a thread.
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Tyber Zaan
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 18/10/2010 02:22:56 Because this kind of crap is what the doomsayers are raging about. This is literally directly selling Skillpoints, and the day this is implemented is the day I qut.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tyber Zaan Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 18/10/2010 02:22:56 Because this kind of crap is what the doomsayers are raging about. This is literally directly selling Skillpoints, and the day this is implemented is the day I qut.
This.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Fulkurth
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:27:00 -
[5]
Dibs your stuff that day
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:28:00 -
[6]
Please show me the data that supports the idea that CCP making more money means we will get more content, or that more content is preferable to current players than say fully implementing features/content or game mechanic balancing, or ironing out bugs aka 'design defects'.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:29:00 -
[7]
Seeing how most people will get the money, with bots, or by not having a life, and back to a WOW-style "he who has the most time to play wins", it's the end of the game for me. Lots said about CCP favoring pirates, or carebears, or whatever, but favoring the Neckbeard community means it's time to go somewhere else.
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ShahFluffers
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:39:00 -
[8]
*backs away slowly*
You are aware how the greater community feels about... *gulp* ... m-mm... *looks nervously around* ... mm-microtrasactions... *the loud roaring of the mob can be heard in the distance*
So many people rage and hiss on the idea that someone with more RL money can essentially become "better" than someone who pays just the normal fee (or doesn't even pay at all, he/she buys PLEXs every month for game time).
I personally feel this way, that it would imbalance the game towards people who are richer in RL. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:46:00 -
[9]
i understand all your points, but do not dramatize the "he who has more money" concept. How about i edit my previous statement and say that they would only be purchased through in-game money? This way those that work for it will get it, and RL money is out of the issue. Again I encourage critique. What would be the problem with that? Just to repeat myself to get the point across, these multipliers would not be like 10x. even the smallest multiplier would cost a good bit of money.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ShahFluffers *backs away slowly*
You are aware how the greater community feels about... *gulp* ... m-mm... *looks nervously around* ... mm-microtrasactions... *the loud roaring of the mob can be heard in the distance*
So many people rage and hiss on the idea that someone with more RL money can essentially become "better" than someone who pays just the normal fee (or doesn't even pay at all, he/she buys PLEXs every month for game time).
I personally feel this way, that it would imbalance the game towards people who are richer in RL.
It's not just about being "richer," it's the simple fact of pouring more money into the game shouldn't give you an advantage. Not that I can't afford to, but why should I pour another $10/month into a game I'm already paying $11/month for?
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
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Tyber Zaan
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Posted - 2010.10.18 02:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Azemar i understand all your points, but do not dramatize the "he who has more money" concept. How about i edit my previous statement and say that they would only be purchased through in-game money? This way those that work for it will get it, and RL money is out of the issue. Again I encourage critique. What would be the problem with that? Just to repeat myself to get the point across, these multipliers would not be like 10x. even the smallest multiplier would cost a good bit of money.
That would still be equally bad, as PLEX can be sold for in-game money, therefore, its still selling skillpoints, which not only myself, but the majority of this community, is ardently against.
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Astroka
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Originally by: Azemar i understand all your points, but do not dramatize the "he who has more money" concept. How about i edit my previous statement and say that they would only be purchased through in-game money? This way those that work for it will get it, and RL money is out of the issue. Again I encourage critique. What would be the problem with that? Just to repeat myself to get the point across, these multipliers would not be like 10x. even the smallest multiplier would cost a good bit of money.
That would still be equally bad, as PLEX can be sold for in-game money, therefore, its still selling skillpoints, which not only myself, but the majority of this community, is ardently against.
Exactly. PLEX are a virtual representation of real-life money. Specifically, one 30-day PLEX (~350 million ISK) is essentially 15 USD converted to an in-game item. As a rule, those who do not grasp this concept are in support of microtransactions and such; those who do grasp the concept are against these things. If it needs to be further simplified, PLEX is money.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Teufelblatt
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Seeing how most people will get the money, with bots, or by not having a life, and back to a WOW-style "he who has the most time to play wins", it's the end of the game for me. Lots said about CCP favoring pirates, or carebears, or whatever, but favoring the Neckbeard community means it's time to go somewhere else.
Every MMO rewards time spent. It's how they keep you paying. |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:11:00 -
[14]
If you want instant skillpoints, please go buy a pre-leveled character. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Tyber Zaan
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn If you want instant skillpoints, please go buy a pre-leveled character.
This, a thousand times this.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Originally by: Arthur Frayn If you want instant skillpoints, please go buy a pre-leveled character.
This, a thousand times this.
Even so, I despise the practice of buying leveled characters and want to see it banned. The whole point of the skill system is that it compels the player to develop the necessary discipline to attain the endgame rewards.
I'll use an example: If your grand goal is to fly a Titan, then you have to work your ass off from scratch for at least two years to get one. That's how long the skills take to train. This gives you the time to learn to fly everything in between, plus all the pleasures and pitfalls of the game, and to build up the resources and social connections to be able to buy one and fly it effectively as part of an alliance somewhere.
The people who "pull a Scius" by buying their way in with billions of isk and capital ships to spare, and subsequently freak out when they die horribly because they know nothing about Eve are a cancer on this game.
And when it comes to training skills faster, just buy implants and respect that you'e going to have to take your goddamn time like the rest of us. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:46:00 -
[17]
to put it out there, i am 100% against the idea of "accelerating" the game via RL money. I was unaware that you could buy isk via that, so i am now against that too, i admit. But this could still be easily obtained. loyalty points. You can buy isk, you can buy minerals, and pretty much everything else indirectly with RL money, except loyalty points. It would take genuine work to achieve these, and there would be no way to shortcut through via anything else besides raw tedious dedication. This easily applies to all types of players. Mish runners, miners, and everyone else would all have equal potential to earn these training multipliers.
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Fulkurth
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:48:00 -
[18]
Ack no! I'm posting twice in a single topic... god help me..
Anyway. People who complain about microtransactions - getting Skill points for money and all that shenanigans..
Buy lots of PLEX with RL money Sell lots of PLEX for ISK Use ISK to buy Character = RL money for skillpoints.
It happens now already.
We blue pill in game gives me a few boosts to stats, surely a stimulant can do the same thing for a short amount of time for something like skills? I don't seen how this "It's a Microtransaction!" "RL money for skills!" business matters since it happens already...
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Azemar to put it out there, i am 100% against the idea of "accelerating" the game via RL money. I was unaware that you could buy isk via that, so i am now against that too, i admit. But this could still be easily obtained. loyalty points. You can buy isk, you can buy minerals, and pretty much everything else indirectly with RL money, except loyalty points. It would take genuine work to achieve these, and there would be no way to shortcut through via anything else besides raw tedious dedication. This easily applies to all types of players. Mish runners, miners, and everyone else would all have equal potential to earn these training multipliers.
You actually can, albeit not as easily or directly as other things like isk/minerals/etc you simply pay some mission runner(s) for their LP as they run missions, in a few days/weeks you have all the LP you need/want having paid with isk you got by any method including purchasing PLEX and selling them on the market.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 03:56:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Azemar on 18/10/2010 03:58:37 if that were true, i agree i would have no argument, but the only flaw im seeing here is that you cant transfer LP between characters, so how would that trade-off work?
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Loyalty_points
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Loyalty_point
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.18 04:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Azemar Edited by: Azemar on 18/10/2010 03:58:37 if that were true, i agree i would have no argument, but the only flaw im seeing here is that you cant transfer LP between characters, so how would that trade-off work?
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Loyalty_points
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Loyalty_point
You don't trade, you pay through shared rewards of a fleet, pay for the lp earned doing missions as part of the fleet of the mission runner.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Omal Oma
Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.10.18 04:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Navigator This is really not worthy of a thread.
________________________________________________ <--- My in-game me. |
Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 05:37:00 -
[23]
that seems to be more trouble then one would go through to get that LP. not to mention the amount would be minuscule if its shared. i understand that the eve community has dealt with numerous posts like this before, and have set-in-stone beliefs that this would never work. All i am asking is that you consider it with logic and reason. Earning training multipliers even on a small scale (1.2x, 1.4x) through LP would be a genuine way to give players the opportunity and potential to accelerate the process of skills without any shortcuts or means of undermining the system through any form of RL money.
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NewGit
Caldari Rusty Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.18 05:57:00 -
[24]
I thought we already had "training speed multipliers", which can be bought for ISK (or ISK/LP). They are called "implants". (Oh, and those dreaded "Learning Skills".)
Or are you looking for something that will boost your training speed while still letting you field a full array of other implants at the same time ?
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.10.18 06:35:00 -
[25]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.10.18 06:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Fulkurth Ack no! I'm posting twice in a single topic... god help me..
Anyway. People who complain about microtransactions - getting Skill points for money and all that shenanigans..
Buy lots of PLEX with RL money Sell lots of PLEX for ISK Use ISK to buy Character = RL money for skillpoints.
It happens now already.
We blue pill in game gives me a few boosts to stats, surely a stimulant can do the same thing for a short amount of time for something like skills? I don't seen how this "It's a Microtransaction!" "RL money for skills!" business matters since it happens already...
That really isn't the same thing from a player perspective or from the perspective of the system.
First, there is a limit what you can buy, since someone has to agree to sell you the character first. You can't decide what skill it will have and there is a limited supply of really high skill chracters. In a buy skillpoints -model no such limits exist and the supply is infinate. Now you can only buy existing characters, in a buy skillpoint -model you actually buy skillpoints.
Second, The character you bought has lived in the game just like every other character. It was in the game for all those years playing and didn't just magically poof in to existance. The only thing changing is that a different player now controls it. In a buy skillpoints -model high SP characters could be 1 day old with no history. It also mean even less ingame conequences for scammers, exploiters and thiefs.
Third, character transfers aren't universally liked now. It is again tolerated largely because it counters people selling accounts by reducing the demand for such things. Now you can buy a character, CCP gets some money and RMT get reduced.
Fourth, you can continue eating your blue pills all you want and ignoring all the differences of the two systems, but the reality is that direct selling of SP will not be tolerated by a significant chunk of the playerbase. Your failure in seeing the differences in the two systems won't alter the fact that these players will leave the game. I know you don't care, but CCP has to care.
Fifth, gameplay affecting microtransaction are almost universally hated by the subscription MMO community. There are many other communities that are more tolerant of them, but they aren't the people playing the game. Those people are playing games that used a microtransaction model from the start with and the people who prefer subscriptions avoided them like the plague. A large part of the current MMO players won't play an MMO with a microtransaction model that sells gameplay advantages. This doesn't just mean current players will leave, it also means CCP will have a lot less potential new players trying the game in the future.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.18 08:15:00 -
[27]
this is an extention - for the worse - of the microtransactions thread - please refer to that.
1) player to player plex/isk trading is bad 2) the character market is cash for skillpoints - multiple accounts = isk generation. Also bad. 3) plex for remap is essentially skill point selling - very bad - but at least you have to wait.
its a cultural argument - isk should not have a cash equiv. it does as it is now. I would like CCP to review these policies and the effect they have ingame - clearly people asking for this sort of thing are of a new generation of players who are used to tools like eve-mon, plex, character transfers and the like. . . perhaps i am just missing the times, but this sort of request is simply these terrible policies becoming normal. -----------
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.18 10:08:00 -
[28]
The biggest disadvantage a new player has in eve is not skill points, it's not cash either.
It's who you know in game or the lack there of. Knowledge of the game comes into it too but more so the who you know.
Get over the sp thing already, get on with learning and talk to people. --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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legion justice
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Posted - 2010.10.18 12:11:00 -
[29]
Not bad thing to point out, it could be done but with limited skills! In other words, make but 4 or 5 skills which could allow you to gain more SP to skill during your actions of mining, pvp pve and so on!
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Azemar
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:55:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Azemar on 18/10/2010 19:57:59
Originally by: Atius Tirawa this is an extention - for the worse - of the microtransactions thread - please refer to that.
1) player to player plex/isk trading is bad 2) the character market is cash for skillpoints - multiple accounts = isk generation. Also bad. 3) plex for remap is essentially skill point selling - very bad - but at least you have to wait.
its a cultural argument - isk should not have a cash equiv. it does as it is now. I would like CCP to review these policies and the effect they have ingame - clearly people asking for this sort of thing are of a new generation of players who are used to tools like eve-mon, plex, character transfers and the like. . . perhaps i am just missing the times, but this sort of request is simply these terrible policies becoming normal.
See, its people like you that i find very arrogant, nothing personal. based on the post you have just made, you most likely did not even read my last post, which completely negates everything you just said. you most likely just clicked reply without even reading the discussion. In case anyone remotely intelligent enough to look past their set in stone beliefs about eve and assess the argument is still curious, ill repeat myself.
I am proposing buying these things through LP. This completely gets rid of the isk, plex, and RL issue, as you cannot transfer it between characters. You could also make it more like an equation than a just a raw multiplier. For instance, if these multipliers only had a benefit on skills where your attributes were strong, it would still be good to buy implants, and train learning skills, and they also wouldnt be as effective if you were low in a certain attribute (not to mention your starting stats would play a crucial role. For instance, say i want to train a gunnery skill and my perception and willpower are at 28 and 22. You could make the multiplier very complex, say (x = perception, y = willpower) .04x + .01y = (multiplier) in this case 1.34x (reasonable number considering the relatively high attributes). This system would also make it so that low attributes would have a negative effect on you if you used them (therefore making a set bar before these attributes even have an effect.) If we were using the same equation, having 20 perception and 16 willpower would only have a .96x multiplier. This system of course would vary because of external variables, but the foundation is sound. I just encourage the community to give it a look and judge it from a logical and reasonable perspective and don't immediately shoot it down. this could work.
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