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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.18 22:28:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Captain Pompous All I'm hearing my end is a lot of people going "Wah, wah, other people can adjust orders faster than I can. I'm going to petition this and clog up the support queues even more!"
Way to fail to read the thread!
The question here is IF its cancelling orders fast (in which case, good scam, good game), or if the orders don't even need to be cancelled because the margin trading skill cancels it for you automatically (in which case, should be an exploit, bad game).
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.19 13:01:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marchocias on 19/10/2010 13:02:55 I've not fallen for it... What I was saying is that if it's achieved by quickly cancelling the order that's fine as it requires skill and timing. If it relies on margin trading default, then it's totally lame as the victim CANNOT use any amount of skill to check in advance.
2 possible fix for this:
All margin trades should be highlighted in a different colour.
Or
Any margin trade orders that default should instead take the full sum of cash from the player, putting them in the red, and automatically cancelling all other outstanding buy orders.
This itself could be exploited a bit, but since margin trading takes a while to train for you could only exploit it once before having to throw the character away.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.19 15:25:00 -
[3]
I did think this through... As I said it could be exploited, probably too much tho. So then the solution is to colour code all margin buy orders.
Oh and spank, can you provide a bulletproof method for knowing, with 100% certainty, that a buy order is genuine or not? Yes, obviously it's possible to make an educated guess, but even with other info you can never be sure.
To be honest I have never seen that error message on over 4 years of trading, so it's not exactly very common, and given the undocumented nature of everything in eve, combined with ambiguous description on the margin trading skill, it looks very much like an exploit.
I'm all in favour of scams that rely on a victims stupidity, but this one relies on an essentially undocumented game mechanic that hardly anyone uses. It's not exactly balanced.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Constratum bacon
Would you care to elaborate?
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:14:00 -
[5]
To be fair, I suppose that any victim who does fall for this must necessarily believe themselves to be scamming the character who placed the buy order. So in one way they do bring it on themselves, it just seems a bit one sided.
Personally I would err on the side of caution and call it an exploit, but I recognise that the issue isn't clear cut.
Were a fix deemed to be required by CCP, instead of colour coding, I would suggest hiding any margin-trade buy orders if the related account does not have the isk to cover them, until such time as it does. That way, margin trading can still occur in the way it was intended - you can still place multiple orders using the same cash, but once the available cash drops below an appropriate level (either because you're scamming, or some of your other orders have since been filled) those orders disappear.
Either way it doesn't directly concern me too much (I guess I'm not greedy enough to fall for this) but I find it to be an interesting scam, certainly worth some discussion!
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Spruillo
Originally by: Marchocias ambiguous description on the margin trading skill, it looks very much like an exploit....an essentially undocumented game mechanic that hardly anyone uses....
Whaaa?
Try region trading with 100's buys for 10's-100's bils with very low turnovers without margin trading. Or run dozens of trade center t2 buys worth bils where maybe 1/10th of a few of them get filled everyday and last for months. Oh, you haven't, because you and nearly ever1 in this thread is posting about something they know next to nothing about. Without margin trading a handful of tycoons could drive everyone without a fortune to tie up out of the market.
INB4 15 more terrible wall-o-texts then move to MD where this belongs.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. No-one has suggested nerfing margin trading (except yourself, albeit fatuously). No-one has posted any 'wall-o-text'.
Everyone was having quite a nice discussion about an interesting facet of the game, one of the few areas that hasn't been covered to death.
So why would you think it appropriate to make it personal?
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.21 00:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
I don't
1) Waste time reading whine threads fully 2) Waste time reading posts from people whose corporation has a misplaced apostrophe
so put that in your pipe and smoke it...because the pouch of shag has arrived, and it is bitter
So
1 You remain wilfully ignorant of the discussion yet still grace us with the benefit of your opinion?
2 Obviously you just did.
Them apples... How do you like em?
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.21 17:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Captain Pompous
1. I read the OP, all that was necessary tbh 2. Didn't read your post, just saw your abomination of a corp name and replied.
1. You obviously didn't read the necessary amount to have any relevant take on the discussion. 2. By replying you invalidate your original assertion.
Regardless, you're clearly the kind of childish berk who needs win arguments on the net to feel good about yourself. Just so you can get that dopamine hit, here you go:
"Congratulations, you are the winner of this thread. All your opinions are well concieved, exceptionally articulated, and don't in any way make you look like a total idiot."
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.10.29 18:37:00 -
[9]
When I first came across this idea it seemed pretty unbalanced at face value. I would have said it was an exploit.
Having had time to look at it a bit more objectively I must change my mind. Frankly, the only way you'll get burned by this is because of greedily attempting to make a too-good-to-be-true fortune, so on some level you deserve it. In addition, there are actually methods to counter it, although they are themselves pretty risky. When it comes down to it, there really isn't any robust reasoning to support it being an exploit.
Not only that, but as a game mechanic its totally ****ing awesome!
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
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