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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Tatyana3033
Kitagawa Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 00:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been doing a lot of missions recently waiting for my skills to catch up. What I've noticed is that missions are basically all the same formula in eve and probably the same as they were back when eve came out. Eve has a rich back story so why the same old missions? Sansha and angels attacking for no apparent reason or benefit.
Maybe some of the pve could be modeled on how pvp and fw works instead of totally pve orientated. Have friendly and enemy AI ships that actually interact with the player.
An agent mission could go like this:
A number of pirates have been hiding in a wormhole in 'jita'. You then use a scanner probe to scan down the wh and think of a ship to enter the WH and fight the pirates. You receive contact from a stranded ship in the WH who you have to track down. If you find him he becomes a new agent in the WH and you work with him to kill the pirates :).
I know this might be a lot of effort for people who like to do fast simple missions, but I think its brings a lot more fun into the game and teaches people more than just how to press afew buttons and set up a decent tank on a ship.
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Kasutra
Tailor Company IMPERIAL LEGI0N
55
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Posted - 2012.08.04 12:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
You should check out the Epic Arcs, they are a bit like that. Sisters of EVE has a very accessible one.
Missions are, I believe, intended to be grindfests, and functioning very well as such. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 14:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Missions are where the "lore" of EVE gets transmitted...or at least where it *should* be transmitted. But the missions themselves do almost nothing to tell an actual story, much less transmit the lore of EVE. Missions should be where you learn the history of the EVE universe -- the races, the conflicts, the mysteries, the history. But all you get are the same cookie-cutter missions over and over and over again. Even the so-called "epic arcs" are just more of the same, with a few unique missions thrown in to give them a bit of flavor.
And the writing...my God. Horrible, lame, amateur. And worse yet, not even in-character for the race you're running the mission for.
I'd like to see an element of randomization in missions as well -- it wouldn't be hard to do even if they're part of a larger "plot", and this would make them more interesting to mission runners who are running a mission for the 100th time.
I realize that no one wants EVE to turn into another "theme park" MMO, but PVE is a major part of the game and as such it should be given due attention -- not just on the mechanics side, but on the actual storytelling side. EVE has a rich culture and backstory, and it's a shame that very little in the game itself actually transmits that story. You have to go to the "meta game" to find it out -- books, the Wiki, and so on. The game itself should be the primary vehicle for transmitting the lore of the game (think of a game like Dragon Age: Origins, for example). For new players, this is a vital part of getting them immersed in the "culture" of the game.
And for players like me, who do mostly PVE and industrial crafting, it would make long-term playing of the game more interesting.
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Doctor Nakajima
Matari Watch
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 16:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agree except for the excesive criticism to the writers. Not necesary. Anyways yeah I support the long plots, even the bifurcation, the personalized open end. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
588
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Posted - 2012.08.04 16:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
I agree, this would be really awesome and is something that's always in the back of my mind of things to do
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
765
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Posted - 2012.08.04 17:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Epic Arcs were a good thrust in the right direction for missions.
I'm an avid PVPer, but enjoy EVE storylines, but the missions get tedious and boring.
From what I have noticed the biggest detriment to new missions is CCP's lack of a mission creation tool. Despite having over 8 years in dealing with these issues, they don't have a tool they can hand a couple content devs to just create a custom mission without needing to hassle 4-5 people on it.
The mission AND exploration system could both benefit from some more interesting random generation of story/interest/NPCs/interaction.
There really aren't all that many missions in the big scheme of things, and spending decades creating content isn't the right answer. Just having a mini-epic arc system that just mixes a few stories and names together would go a long way to just keeping it a bit more interesting (although solvable eventually).
Exploration sites especially suffer from some serious repetition.
The Sandbox is what EVE is about. The missions were created in a day and age to attract the "Themepark" player and then move them into the sandbox (when WOW was rolling out).
Finding a way for missions to enhance the sandbox opportunities is really where the gold would lie in any refactoring of the mission system.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.04 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is an inherent tension between the "themepark"/PVE player and the "sandbox"/PVP player. Many players like the unscripted, emergent gameplay inherent in the sandbox model, and this is great.
But I'm one of the players who finds the lore and backstory of the EVE universe fascinating, and I wish (wish!) that the game would do more to convey that backstory during gameplay. At present, the various races exist mainly as differences in ship design and capabilities -- there's no real sense of political or cultural conflict within Empire space. (For example, a Minmatar pilot can roam at will through Amarr space and visit any agent they have the security level for, all without being hassled. Likewise a Caldari pilot in Gallente space. Yet the political/cultural situations in the lore suggest that this would be highly unlikely to happen.)
Exploration especially could be very much better with an improved missioning system. Archaeology in particular would be a great way to show the history of the EVE universe, and slowly uncover the history of the galaxy. It could show the player who and what the Jovians are, how they got there, and how the relations with the other races developed. It could show how the various pirate factions split off from their parent cultures. And so on.
There's an enormous amount of "story" latent in the EVE universe, but the game simply doesn't *tell* it. New players would have an easier time of the "how and why" of EVE, I think, if the game spent a bit more time explaining how the EVE galaxy came to be the way it is.
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mkint
838
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Posted - 2012.08.04 20:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm vaguely aware that mission descriptions try to tell a story but I wouldn't be able to tell you about a single one even after all these years. Now, what would missions be like if they shared deadspace ? A dozen people doing different missions on the same grid. Not a game breaking change but would allow some interesting new ways to interact and make it possible to tell new stories. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
114
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Posted - 2012.08.04 20:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I agree, this would be really awesome and is something that's always in the back of my mind of things to do
Please shave head, draw eyes on back of it. This will maybe bring it to the front of your mind?
To say that missions are neglected is an understatement to say the least. |
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 20:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
I do feel that the PVE players of Eve are a little forgotten about.
Although I'm sure CCP have analytics running which show most people are PVPers, so that's where most of their effort goes. |
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FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
114
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Posted - 2012.08.04 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chimpy B wrote:I do feel that the PVE players of Eve are a little forgotten about.
Although I'm sure CCP have analytics running which show most people are PVPers, so that's where most of their effort goes.
this made me laugh lots... |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.04 21:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think CCP introduced Incursions/Sansha's Nation to improve PVE to some extent, and FW. But the problem with these initiatives is that there really was no backstory (in-game): it was all mechanics and no "story". Oh, you could go to the website and read the chronicles and the news squibs, but in the game itself...nothing. (Wouldn't you think that agents in an Incursion system would be kind of freaked out by being invaded? Or that the faction Navies would be scrambled?)
In short, I think CCP has tilted too far in the direction of game mechanics at the expense of the larger game "culture".
I've always thought that EVE was designed so that nullsec was "sandbox"/unstructured/player-generated play, lowsec was PVP/pirate play, and hisec was PVE-centric play. Yet hisec play is really just window-dressing -- your choice of race is really inconsequential beyond the first few days of play.
In short: there's no real *point* to the various races/cultures in EVE, or to the ornate backstory CCP has created for them. These details have no real bearing on gameplay. You can crosstrain for any race's ship, and you can use implants to improve racial traits.
Like I said before, I think this is an awful shame, because EVE's story is interesting, and deep. There's a lot of fascinating gameplay to be derived from the backstory of the EVE races, and it mystifies me why CCP has never capitalized on it in the missioning system.
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.04 21:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I want to add that I'm NOT asking for hisec to be made "safe" for new players. That's not the point I'm making at all. In fact, I find the possibility of random death to be quite exciting!
No, I'm just asking for CCP to put a bit more effort into telling the EVE story in-game. I want my choice of race and faction to *matter*. I want there to be a real impact on the game if I choose (say) Gallente over Amarr, or vice-versa. My choices should matter beyond the color-scheme of my stations and the design of my starter frigate.
I'm also NOT asking for extensive cutscenes or voice-acting as in SWTOR. As we're finding out, that kind of static content goes stale fast (though how many hundreds of times have we had to grind through the 30-odd missions CCP has given us per level?). What I do want is faction-specific missions with an element of randomization, and "epic arcs" that are truly epic: that tell a coherent story, that have a real impact on the world, and that take place on a grand scale.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
273
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Posted - 2012.08.04 22:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
i like lvl4's being a grindfest tbh. they are very good for doing on the side while listening to an audiobook or some debate or even music and you get decent isk in the process. i would be ok with making them more dynamic but only if in turn you make incursion scout sites a valid alternative (soloable but decent isk/hr).
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
589
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Posted - 2012.08.04 23:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:I agree, this would be really awesome and is something that's always in the back of my mind of things to do
Please shave head, draw eyes on back of it. This will maybe bring it to the front of your mind? To say that missions are neglected is an understatement to say the least.
Currently working on Incursions and FW :) Maybe once I'm done with that.. we shall see CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
274
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Posted - 2012.08.04 23:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
it's the middle of the night on a weekend, and yet affinity is sitting here giving us feedback. now that's commitment!
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
589
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Posted - 2012.08.04 23:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote: I want my choice of race and faction to *matter*. I want there to be a real impact on the game if I choose (say) Gallente over Amarr, or vice-versa. My choices should matter beyond the color-scheme of my stations and the design of my starter frigate.
I totally agree, it would be amazing to eventually have very race-biased paths available to you :) However, they need to matter in a way that doesn't completely limit and cut you off.. we never want to say no you can't do that because when you created a character and just picked the one with the prettiest face, you closed off an entire area of content to yourself.
CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
589
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:it's the middle of the night on a weekend, and yet affinity is sitting here giving us feedback. now that's commitment!
And yet even the new guys have more forum likes than me! I must be a really bad poster... CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
274
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Posted - 2012.08.05 00:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
just tell them that if you get 1000 likes, you'll make tractor beams draw in frigates. that should do the trick.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1064
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Posted - 2012.08.05 02:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'm actully really surprize CCP is choosing to work on that player contract system instead of missions.
I really hope the current system is replaced with what they promised us at fanfest 2008.Just feels like a bigger part of eve that needs to be fixed.
And AT10 seems to confrim that everything we would want the player contracts system to do won't make it in, plus it's stuff we do allready anyways.
How about corporation store fronts? so you can sell fully fitted ships to your corp/alliance mates? http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
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Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
41
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Posted - 2012.08.05 06:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
All the hardcore pvpers will complain if you make the missions any different. Missions are really good at establishing the basics of what a player does. Also explains a lot of the core concepts of the game. I think CCP really needs to explain the whole standing thing so players do screw them selves out of certain factions spaces..... |
Sellendis
The Ares project
151
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Posted - 2012.08.05 07:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I agree, this would be really awesome and is something that's always in the back of my mind of things to do
We already had many good ideas about missions. They are predictable to the point of tears, not saying they should neut, scram and web from 100km like sleepers, but a little diversity would go a long way.
For example, put Rokh/Abbadon/Hyperion/Maelstorm in missions. Or Drake/Harby/ and the rest of lineup. AI fail-fits anyway, so aside AI flying different looking ship it would add some diversity and not impact on the technical side. Just color the damn things. Make, if possible to have a random generator, if the next gurista wave is 4 BC and 6 BS, let a roll decide what ships are gonna spawn, 6BS could be 2 ravens + 2 scorps + 2 Rokhs, or 1-1-4, or 1-2-3 or - 3-1-2 combination.
I always found it a bit stupid that after all this years pirates never managed to buy and deploy any of the newer ships. Goes to show when missions were looked at last time :)
Kinda doubt CCP will ever find anything wrong with AI managing to fit 8 turrets on a Machariel and for the fun of it, mount a missile launcher somewhere. 8+1 weapon layout? Yes please :)
Using ships for intended role would be too much i guess, why would Scorps with a bonus to jamming decide to use rails and a raven with missile bonus use ECM? Pirate fittings, drunk as hell fits are always the best :) |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
164
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Posted - 2012.08.05 09:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sellendis wrote:Make, if possible to have a random generator, if the next gurista wave is 4 BC and 6 BS, let a roll decide what ships are gonna spawn, 6BS could be 2 ravens + 2 scorps + 2 Rokhs, or 1-1-4, or 1-2-3 or - 3-1-2 combination.
it does that already, granted it is nearly meaningless, a 450k or 437k bounty npc battleship is pretty much the same thing.
and imo if you want to have an impact on the world a mission is not the way to do it. the empires are old, it is nice that fw finally allows station flips. I mean to invade highsec you would have to go against massive npc fleets, I'm assuming they would fight back at that point.
lastly I have no problem with missions as is right now. they are the dailies, the grind, or w/e you want to call it of eve. they are a nice low commitment thing to do that nearly everyone in game can do.
maybe some "random" pve would be fun but where would it lie on the zomgboring <----> zomgalpha'd scale? and wouldn't a lot of the middle ground be just as boring/uneventful as missions? and where would the payout be? too low and one zomgalpha'd mission and you would have been better off running level 4s, too high and you avoid a zomgalpha'd mission and well then I guess lucky you. although I'd think the payouts would be mostly LP as to not flow too much isk into the game. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.05 12:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Idris Helion wrote: I want my choice of race and faction to *matter*. I want there to be a real impact on the game if I choose (say) Gallente over Amarr, or vice-versa. My choices should matter beyond the color-scheme of my stations and the design of my starter frigate.
I totally agree, it would be amazing to eventually have very race-biased paths available to you :) However, they need to matter in a way that doesn't completely limit and cut you off.. we never want to say no you can't do that because when you created a character and just picked the one with the prettiest face, you closed off an entire area of content to yourself.
Well, sure...but if a player choice is to matter in the game-world then it *should* place some limits on what they can do...both in the positive and negative senses. And if we want EVE to continue to be a harsh and unforgiving place (and we do!) then some choices are going to involve some pain. The training system is this way already...you can invest a lot of time training up some set of skills, only to find later on that you want to change your playstyle (from Industrialist to combat pilot, let's say), and this essentially means tens or even hundreds of hours of training-time to be effective.
And I know that CCP wants to avoid placing limits on character actions, but at the same time they should respect the very nature of the EVE races.
Consider the Amarr: how is their pervasive religiosity ever leveraged in-game? What exactly is the Amarr religion, and how does it affect what missions an agent will grant an Amarr as opposed to a non-Amarr pilot? What benefits and drawbacks does such strict adherence to their religion grant those characters? Likewise the Minmatar: how would their hatred of their former Amarr masters affect the characters in-game? MIssion-running in both areas should be affected by race because if it isn't, it makes no sense in terms of the backstory. And the Gallente should certainly be frightened of the Caldari, now that the Caldari have re-taken Caldari Prime...and yet if you only played the game and never read the Chronicles, you'd never know that Caldari Prime had been re-taken because the game itself never tells you. (Is there actually a Caldari Titan orbiting Caldari Prime now, in-game? I haven't been over that way in a long time.)
CCP has spent a huge amount of time and effort into building the EVE "world" as a unique place with unique cultures and factions. But in-game, all of those details really just get boiled down to ship, station, and gate design. No actual "story" gets transmitted, and there's no feeling of being "Amarr" or "Gallente" for a player -- your choice of race makes no real difference. (Particularly since 99% of the time, your avatar is the ship you're flying and not the body you inhabit -- and if you're an Amarr flying a Caldari ship, then you might as well be Caldari for all the difference your race makes.)
I care mostly about how your race impacts the way hisec missions are designed, but it would also improve gameplay more generally to grant racial bonuses and penalties that are permanent (maybe the Amarr would have a permanent penalty to implant effectiveness, but a permanent bonus to Social, particularly among their own race, for example).
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
614
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Posted - 2012.08.05 20:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I'm actully really surprize CCP is choosing to work on that player contract system instead of missions.
I really hope the current system is replaced with what they promised us at fanfest 2008.Just feels like a bigger part of eve that needs to be fixed.
And AT10 seems to confrim that everything we would want the player contracts system to do won't make it in, plus it's stuff we do allready anyways.
How about corporation store fronts? so you can sell fully fitted ships to your corp/alliance mates?
Don't worry about getting to the mission system liek right now now, but please keep it in mind. :/
Different people have different roles within CCP. Content designers work on missions, none of us are working on the contract system. CCP Affinity | Follow me on Twitter Content Designer for EVE Online |
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Sarmatiko
756
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Posted - 2012.08.05 22:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Different people have different roles within CCP. Content designers work on missions, none of us are working on the contract system.
Then maybe you can give us some comments about recent event agent changes in Yrmori (Karsten Lundham, Patrikia Noirild, Rohan Shadrak). In the past they were in TestEpicArc group iirc. Can this mean that there is possibly of new epic arc development? Or this is RP stuff like Arek'Jaalan project?
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1004
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:All the hardcore pvpers will complain if you make the missions any different. Missions are really good at establishing the basics of what a player does. Also explains a lot of the core concepts of the game. I think CCP really needs to explain the whole standing thing so players do screw them selves out of certain factions spaces.....
Missions are spectacularly bad at establishing any basics or explaining core concepts. There is a huge gap between real EVE mechanics, and the scripted Empire NPC AI grind. Mission walk-throughs are the final nail in the coffin, ruining even the slightest chance of surprise.
Repetitive missions shouldn't be in this persistent, single-shard universe in the first place. In their current form, they are detached from the rest of the sandbox, and only promote botting or bot-like playing, bad fits and GD whines.
Most importantly new players should be protected from the terrible idea of missioning-career. I would be happy to see the missions removed from the game, or completely revamped to be one-time storylines with improved NPC AI and realistic mechanics.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
275
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Roime wrote:Kult Altol wrote:All the hardcore pvpers will complain if you make the missions any different. Missions are really good at establishing the basics of what a player does. Also explains a lot of the core concepts of the game. I think CCP really needs to explain the whole standing thing so players do screw them selves out of certain factions spaces..... Missions are spectacularly bad at establishing any basics or explaining core concepts. There is a huge gap between real EVE mechanics, and the scripted Empire NPC AI grind. Mission walk-throughs are the final nail in the coffin, ruining even the slightest chance of surprise. Repetitive missions shouldn't be in this persistent, single-shard universe in the first place. In their current form, they are detached from the rest of the sandbox, and only promote botting or bot-like playing, bad fits and GD whines. Most importantly new players should be protected from the terrible idea of missioning-career. I would be happy to see the missions removed from the game, or completely revamped to be one-time storylines with improved NPC AI and realistic mechanics. as I said before, completely removing the grind is not a good idea. some people (like me) enjoy performing a monotonous activity while doing something else on the side. i'm not saying missions should be left alone, just that there needs to be some equivalent to belt ratting or plexing in hisec.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1004
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
I can appreciate the fact that you like to grind, that's a valid argument. But that there needs to be a (semi) afk activity and that hisec should have a risk-free version of belt ratting are really terrible arguments.
Plexing exists also in hisec.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
276
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Roime wrote:I can appreciate the fact that you like to grind, that's a valid argument. But that there needs to be a (semi) afk activity and that hisec should have a risk-free version of belt ratting are really terrible arguments.
Plexing exists also in hisec.
firstly, i do not insist on hisec grind paying as well as nullsc grind. in fact, you will find several occasions of me stating that lvl4s should be removed from hisec. on the other hand, let's keep it real: you will probably get more money from afk mining in a mammoth than from running hisec anoms. the payout fo hisec grind should be at least half of what you'd expect from a (relatively safe) 0.0 activity.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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