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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2010.10.19 19:48:00 -
[1]
TL;DR: Asteroid belts turned into single large asteroids. Asteroids are CAT scanned to find ores inside. To get to the ore the miner first has to drill away useless rock and then mine the exposed minerals.
For this new system to work some changes have to be made to certain items and mechanics in EVE.
New asteroids: Asteroids will have to be a lot fewer and larger. What is a belt today would be pretty much a single asteroid. Each asteroid also contains many minerals, not just a single one.
New asteroid scanner: When activating the new scanner on an asteroid, the ship will go into geosynchronous orbit around it. That is the ship will follow the asteroids rotation, and will be unbumpable. Once the scanner is active a new "asteroid view" mode will be available. The asteroid is viewed in depth slices, like a CAT scan. The goal for the miner is to find areas in the asteroid with high concentrations of the mineral he's after. He does this by going through different depths of the asteroid with the scanner and thereby observing the composition of the asteroid.
New mining laser configurations: All mining lasers will now have to use crystals. Two new crystals are added: the all purpose drilling crystal and the all purpose mining crystal. To get to the sweet spots the miner will first have to dig away the useless rock around it. This is done with the drilling crystal. At this stage it might be a good idea to reposition your ship so as little drilling as possible opens up as much minerals as possible. Once the area is uncovered the miner switches to the mining crystal (either all purpose or one of the specific ones). The mining crystals can dig through rock as well, but not as quickly. The drilling crystals will on the other hand drill through everything and never deposit anything to the ship, so if you're not careful you will burn away valuable minerals.
Strip miners are of course more effective than normal mining lasers, but they will also be more blunt. While they will quickly dig through rock and suck up what's inside, they will leave scraps behind that they can't waste time to collect. This gives newer miners an excellent opportunity to help in any mining op, or to have something left to mine in the starter systems.
I also think this would reduce macro miners as it will be a system that is pretty hard to automate.
Graphically it will also look pretty cool where mined out asteroids will be unstable and full of holes, giving an indication that there is no use in attempting any further mining at that site.
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Kaa's Slave
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Posted - 2010.10.19 21:36:00 -
[2]
Nice, i might even be tempted to mine again if this were the case.. immersion in mining, who would have thought . Oh btw mix this up with the modular pos idea and u can set up short term mining faciities wich store and process (to a degree) minerals then dismantled and moved to a new location (this ofcrs is a fantacy)... gives mining ops a totally new meaning.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.10.19 22:10:00 -
[3]
I like it, I think the same could be acomplished with Ice, make public Ice comets that appear on the overveiw and ones with rarer types scanable. Some rules apply to minning them as Astroroids!
Food for thought!
-- They took my Rifle! |
Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
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Posted - 2010.10.19 22:25:00 -
[4]
one problem i see is that, with the level of tech we have in eve, there's not really anything "useless", whatsoever. everything can be broken down to it's base elements. therefore, "useless" is purely an extension of market value.
otherwise, m,aking mining (ice and ore) more active sounds great to me.
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Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.10.20 03:12:00 -
[5]
I like the idea, as it brings a more sci-fi feel to the 'veins' mining idea. For the ice, I came up with a separate idea which would help the ice miners. You can find this idea listed here (It's a PDF, so it's not visible in the IGB).
Given the implementation of both of these, I think mining would actually become fun to do, and maybe even more profitable. Supported 1000 times over.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Vesok Toch
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Posted - 2010.10.20 13:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Vesok Toch on 20/10/2010 13:27:20 Can someone weld a snowplow to the front of my exhumer to push all the macro's out of the way?
In all seriousness I'd like to see mining become more interactive, more profitable, an actual career path to follow. However before any changes to mining are done I think something has to be done with macrominers. They are a disease.
I haven't commented on the T3 exhumer idea. That idea sounds like a good one as well but if put into place I'm sure macro's will exploit that as well.
In the systems I mine in I see macro's all over. They log in and strip belts 23/7. Petitions don't seem to work and gank squads are only and inconvenience sometimes just making them go somewhere else.
If your idea could be implemented to beat macro software I'd be all for it.
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OzDeaDMeaT
Gallente StarForged Universal Assembly
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Posted - 2010.10.20 21:42:00 -
[7]
I like the big asteroids mega sized asteroid belt idea. I think Mining needs some variation. At the moment its activate lasers, wait between 45 and 180 seconds and repeat. I think this as an advanced mining practice would be good as well as break up the bordom factor of doing mining. I don't think this idea should replace all mining however. I just cant see Mr JoeNooB having the patience to do all this to make such a little amount of isk. (dont forget mining is one of the easiest ways to make money when your a noob)
Having some 35-50km radius asteroids in amongst standard asteroids would give new people interested in mining something to aim for. Remember when you saw people in Battleships and you had just gotten into your first Cruiser? Same kinda thing, end game for miners atm is the HULK with either a rorqual or orca in support. Something like a semi-capital ship with 1 mega laser to punch a hole through into the good components of the asteroid would be awesome. But you would have someone do a scan before hand to give you the best yield. There isnt enough actual team work involved in mining. If that was addressed somehow in your idea i would support it.
Eve-au.com News Reporter |
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
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Posted - 2010.10.21 01:55:00 -
[8]
Fully supported. This will help stop macros and make mining more fun. Also that geo orbit might make trageting miners more fun to
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Saju Somtaaw
Department of Defence
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Posted - 2010.10.21 16:35:00 -
[9]
Sounds like an excellent idea, supported. ---- --- ---
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.21 17:52:00 -
[10]
I dunno, this sounds an awful lot like PI to me.
Also, I like that belts have lots of asteroids -- that's how asteroid belts are in space. Having a giant non-planet ball of minerals isn't very space-realistic.
I think CCP can and should crack down on macro miners (and macro ratters), so points for thinking about the problem, but I don't like the elimination of belts (and of mining crystals for specific types of asteroid).
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Wolodymyr
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Posted - 2010.10.22 05:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Wolodymyr on 22/10/2010 05:08:05 Yeah I think it would help to introduce some manner of "mining mini game" to make mining less boring, but mostly to cut down on people using macros. I think you could still have the same amount of roids in a belt. But people would just focus on one or two roids at a time. Also for the noobs I would make it so that skill point wise, the mining mini game is just as accessible as old mining.
So you have to ask, "Will noobs be frightened by a complex mini-game to mine asteroids?" Ask yourself how many noobs know how to do planetary interaction, or use scan probes?
CCP even had to make youtube tutorials for PI and probes. http://www.youtube.com/user/ccpgames?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/FCD7CE88C4615EFF/0/WzSnf8HwQ_U http://www.youtube.com/user/ccpgames?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/FCD7CE88C4615EFF/1/heYfTA00Idg
Also mining as it is now is just mind numbingly boring! I have seen people mining on their pc while they have an xbox controller in their hand playing Call Of Duty on their TV. We need a model better than "target roid -> turn on strip miners -> go make a sandwich."
Also we could ask, "Will a mining mini game make mining more enticing to noobs?"
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Thufir Hawaat
Amarr VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.10.22 06:16:00 -
[12]
I say YES! Finally one nice idea regarding mining and macroers. What would I like to add that it is really not necessary to merge all roids in the belt in one big rock as it gives an abuse: number of miners of one corp/ally/gang/alts shall be sitting on the most profitable veins while everyone else will be forced to have tiny pieces as their "meal". What is really affordable is to make asteroid belts dramatically wider at the space. Make bigger rocks(as topic starter propose) just to replace ten of present stones with one(this can free some server resouces). What would I personnaly like to see is the asteroid belts around moons or planets. It seems to be interesting to have some minable "Saturn Rings". Also this sort of mining can be hardned with some gravity anomalies wich will affect ship to be towed inside belt or to a planet atmosphere where not so easy to maneuvre or even dangerous to be. (Just reminded me the X-3:Reunion).
Making a game inside game is awesome I support fully. More control, more action, more profit - these three can resurrect LIVE mining and bury macroers. ----------------------------------------------- We can kill the enemy anyway. If not - we can kill the enemy in any other way. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.22 06:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wolodymyr
Yeah I think it would help to introduce some manner of "mining mini game" to make mining less boring, but mostly to cut down on people using macros. I think you could still have the same amount of roids in a belt. But people would just focus on one or two roids at a time. Also for the noobs I would make it so that skill point wise, the mining mini game is just as accessible as old mining.
So you have to ask, "Will noobs be frightened by a complex mini-game to mine asteroids?" Ask yourself how many noobs know how to do planetary interaction, or use scan probes?
CCP even had to make youtube tutorials for PI and probes. http://www.youtube.com/user/ccpgames?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/FCD7CE88C4615EFF/0/WzSnf8HwQ_U http://www.youtube.com/user/ccpgames?blend=1&ob=4#p/c/FCD7CE88C4615EFF/1/heYfTA00Idg
Also mining as it is now is just mind numbingly boring! I have seen people mining on their pc while they have an xbox controller in their hand playing Call Of Duty on their TV. We need a model better than "target roid -> turn on strip miners -> go make a sandwich."
Also we could ask, "Will a mining mini game make mining more enticing to noobs?"
Having recently stated play a MMORPG that has mini games to gather resources, I think new players will not be frightened, but they will not be enticed too.
A mini game is good if you can gather a significant quantity of material in a few minutes, but the current mining operations require hours of gaming. A mini game where every few seconds you need to "calibrate your laser", "point your laser on the right spot", "cycle your laser for the right time" will become annoying and boring very fast.
So to compensate for the extra annoyance (and real player unwillingness to do minigames for a long period) you would need to increase yield. But if you increase yield even an inefficient macro or a sweatshop worker paid to stare at the screen for 8 hours will get more rewarding and they will own the mineral production even more than today (and BTW, from my recent experience, a mining minigame will require much more communication to and from the server, so more lag).
So, unless it is done very, very well, I am against mining minigames.
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Javajunky
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Posted - 2010.10.22 16:48:00 -
[14]
Not supported.
CCP doesn't do mini-games very well. PI is a perfect example.
Ultimately defeating the Macro is in our best interest, but probably not in the best interest of CCP since. It's subscription revenue and nay once has there been a post from CCP expressing concern or desire to combat the problem.
Slug it out in Null Sec or find a new profession in IMO, I yielded empire grounds to macro's a long while back. The only viable alternative I've seen in the past that would be feasible where CCP wouldn't have to spend a money on is is moving empire belts to grav sites, with a very low level scanning requirement. Like one scanning probe to pick it up. You could probably kill off some macros that way, but again the absence of CCP's comments on the subject leads me to believe its a revenue over fraud.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2010.11.08 17:12:00 -
[15]
Bump.
Also consider the social aspect of a system like this. Currently the sort of cooperation you have while mining is hauling, mining, boosting.
With this suggestion you can have someone first drill away useless rock with a strip miner, second person comes in with a smaller ship and removes the last parts that was missed by the blunt strip miner. A third person mines most of the exposed minerals with another strip miner and a fourth person mines the scraps that's left with a smaller laser.
That's four people involved just in the mining process (two of which can be new players), then you also have the hauling and boosting like before. It got potential for being more social and newb friendly, while not stopping anyone from doing it solo.
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Selinate
Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.11.08 17:23:00 -
[16]
This sounds an awful lot like my idea that I posted yesterday. However, this one has a lot more built upon it and is... meh... presented better than mine. I support it.
What about having artifacts inside the asteroid that is scannable, and you would have to carefully clean it off and pull it out of the asteroid without damaging it, like I mentioned in my post?
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GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.08 17:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Javajunky Not supported.
CCP doesn't do mini-games very well. PI is a perfect example.
Ultimately defeating the Macro is in our best interest, but probably not in the best interest of CCP since. It's subscription revenue and nay once has there been a post from CCP expressing concern or desire to combat the problem.
would love a link to that post btw.. cause as i see it.. macro miners/ratters are the only viable producers of isk to online eve isk sellers.
We all know isk sellers are against CCP's EULA as they allow players to negate CCP's methods put in place to allow players isk for cash. That cash goes to ccp... but instead its going to 3rd parties.. allowing payment of programmers to build better more sophisticated Macro programmes to carry on the cycle.
in my oppinion macro's are inadvertently linked to isk sellers. Isk sellers are pulling money away from ccp. All the in game accounts associated with this process, whether buying, selling or producing isk in game, are funded via PLEX's because its relatively free for them and has no paper trail back to persons or locations.
there are 3 groups that u can act against: #1 The In-Game Macro ISK makers #2 The Online ISK Sellers #3 The Desperate Eve-Online Player
Combating #3 has some effects, but requires lots of time and resources to do. much like killing a tree by cutting each individual leaf off, and monitoring it constantly to cut any new leaves that appear.
Combating #2 has been tried but as online retailers, selling game currency isnt illegal under any law in any country. this practise can only be discouraged.
Combating #1 i dont think has been tried as it requires creating new features and trying to make it macro-proof. which i understand is extremely difficult. the raw data is there to investigate suspected macro'ers but again time and resources. plus shutting down individual players becomes ineffective as others spring up almost immediately to counter the loss.
the only way i can see CCP creating systems that are macro proof is to include randomisers, much like in casinos and gambling websites, so that it randomises parts of the selection process in mining. that way if and when the random number generating formula IS hacked and a workaround is developed for use in a Macro, ccp can update to a new formula and block out the macro's attempts.
the only other way, which would be entertaining to a degree, would be to include a system whereby damage is done to modules and ships that are not constantly monitored... im not a miner myself but remember reading about skillbooks that allow miners to stop or prevent gas explosions in certain ore types. if asteroids contained several types of ore that are only uncovered upon closer inspection with scanners, then situations can be put in place whereby a severe explosive event can occur without proper monitoring and preventative measures.
btw soz for the wall of text! CSM Prop 1 CSM Prop 2 |
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.11.08 18:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Javajunky Not supported.
CCP doesn't do mini-games very well. PI is a perfect example.
I honestly don't think that PI is a very good example in your argument of ccp not doing minigames well. PI is essentially an unfinished product, since it's going to be coupled with Dust 514, and hence still has a very large part of it missing. Honestly, I like PI also, I don't see how it's a bad minigame.
Honestly, I can't really think of any true mini-games in Eve, and on top of that, even if there were a minigame that wasn't all that good made by CCP, that is by no means a reason to immediately discredit all possible minigames that they could come out with in the future. |
mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.08 21:09:00 -
[19]
I like this idea, would make minign fun and more profitable. though CCp might have to reduce the ore recovered from modules to force pirates to only kill a few mining ships per night
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Ancyker
The Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.08 23:07:00 -
[20]
I like the idea of making mining more interactive but I do not like the idea proposed here.
... where is the half support button ...
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