Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xiozor
LowBall Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 17:32:00 -
[1]
I was flying a blaster Megathron earlier today and get a fight against a Hurricane which undocks. I web/scramble him and open up with a chorus of 7 Neutron blaster cannons. First shot knocks down his shields, next pushing hard into armour. But then he picks up a bit of speed in the right direction and my shots start missing. Ogre II's are still chewing through him but it's going to be too close to call, especially if even a little bit of backup arrives, so I return my drone, de-aggress and dock.
This is part of a wider problem to do with blasters, and I think that the closer a target is to you, the stronger the web effect should be and the further away they are the weaker it should be. When a Blasterboat gets ontop of you, which is a difficult place for a blasterboat to get in the first place, simply running circles round their guns due to their mediocre tracking should just not be an option. ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 17:37:00 -
[2]
àyou were fighting a smaller target with too large guns. It's kind of intended. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:15:00 -
[3]
Maybe you should have committed to the fight and learned something. Clearly you are incompetent presently. ~_~
|
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 25/10/2010 18:19:19
Originally by: Tippia àyou were fighting a smaller target with too large guns. It's kind of intended.
Well, he did have it webbed, and its a Battlecruiser, so I can see why he'd be a little dismayed.
Originally by: Lady Spank Maybe you should have committed to the fight and learned something. Clearly you are incompetent presently.
Why exactly? He gauged a fight as too risky because the return from a hurricane would be probably be minimal. Sticking around and opening yourself up to a larger fight you were not equipped to win is a stupid idea. I'de say he acted rather intelligently.
|
Rhinanna
Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:45:00 -
[5]
And you are complaining because you can't pwn anything that gets close?
I can do the same thing to any BS in a speed fit 'cane. Why should the mega be any different?
Tracking on the mega is one of the BEST on any BS and you still think it should be better? The whole point is smaller ships is to get under the guns of larger ships and do EXACTLY what he did to you. What do you expect anyone in smaller ships to do? Stay at range where BS's longer range is even more effective? Just die and be awed by the fact you can fly a BS?
And the mega has a big advantage over the 'cane when flown well, you just have to do it right, I'll let you work out how
Seriously, Think then post please. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sader Rykane Well, he did have it webbed, and its a Battlecruiser, so I can see why he'd be a little dismayed.
End result: he had a target that was as easy or difficult to track as a non-webbed BS, but which moves in ways a battleship can't, thus evading the guns (still) as intended.
Bigger guns vs. smaller ship = bad idea. That's a good thing. Fancy piloting would have helped, and making that a factor, rather than how many things you can activate on the enemy at once, is also a good thing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Hentes Zsemle
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:49:00 -
[7]
Webbed and scrambled, and a battlecruiser... that means it was going like 100 meters a sec around the battleship's optimal, and it could speedtank it. No, its not working as intended.
|
Snowmann
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 18:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle Webbed and scrambled, and a battlecruiser... that means it was going like 100 meters a sec around the battleship's optimal, and it could speedtank it. No, its not working as intended.
It's a Minnie ship. Should have had it Target Painted as well due there smaller sig.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 19:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle Webbed and scrambled, and a battlecruiser... that means it was going like 100 meters a sec around the battleship's optimal, and it could speedtank it. No, its not working as intended.
Why not? Just because he couldn't adjust for what was probably a measly 0.2 rad/s effective angular velocityà
Again, what's so hard to understand about bigger guns + smaller target = bad idea? It's there to purposefully give those smaller targets an edge over the bigger ones. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
PHoneix NOir
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 19:05:00 -
[10]
Try:
Downgrading to Ion Blaster Cannons for improved tracking
Make sure you use close range ammo (caldari navy antimatter) for no tracking penalties
Fit a large Neut to drain their cap
take a tracking enhancing booster, i forget which one it is though.
else, train your gunnery/bs skills higher
GL o/
PS - you can also move yourself to reduce transversal
|
|
Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:01:00 -
[11]
Kick on your MWD and start moving towards him, this will screw with his orbit. I like me
Recruiter |
Aylara
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia àyou were fighting a smaller target with too large guns. It's kind of intended.
TBH, I think nobody should have problems tracking webbed ships 1 class smaller with close range weapons and ammo. Frigates < cruisers < battlecruisers < battleships, that's the progression and motivation to fly bigger ships, to kill same/1 class lower ships(easier), not just tank-ability.
Makes sense though, that cruisers should be able to evade high tier large guns and frigates high tier medium guns if fitted for that.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hentes Zsemle Webbed and scrambled, and a battlecruiser... that means it was going like 100 meters a sec around the battleship's optimal, and it could speedtank it. No, its not working as intended.
And 100 m/s is about the speed that a plated mega gets. Even if the mega is webbed he is going ~50 m/s which means you can cut the transversal of the hurricane down to nothing or next to nothing and get near perfect hits.
Yes, if you just sit there and expect to wtfpwn anything with large blasters you need to find a timemachine back to 2007. In 2010 you need to actually worry about transversal in blaster ships just like you do with every other ship. Learn to play, noob. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tippia on 25/10/2010 20:33:07
Originally by: Aylara Frigates < cruisers < battlecruisers < battleships, that's the progression and motivation to fly bigger ships, to kill same/1 class lower ships(easier), not just tank-ability.
That's just it: this is EVE ù there is no progression, and bigger isn't better (or, rather, if bigger is better, it is broken and you should start bracing yourself for the nerf).
The only relationship that matters is that frigs ≠ crisers ≠ BCs ≠ BSes.
The motivation for flying bigger ships is that they can perform different roles ù the exact same motivation as for flying smaller ships. Without the ability to completely turn the relationship you describe on its head, all we have are ships that completely obsolete the previous layer, and that's just good old lazy design for simpletons.
EVE doesn't do it that way, and that's why EVE is a better game than most.
Oh, and as others have pointed outà Quote: I think nobody should have problems tracking webbed ships 1 class smaller with close range weapons and ammo.
àthe only reason he had this problem is because he failed at flying his ship. The game does not need to (and most certainly should not) be changed just to accommodate this silly failure on his part. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
masternerdguy
Gallente Valor Inc. Valor Empire
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:56:00 -
[15]
Your doing it wrong! You should be in the hurricane
http://valor.truthonly.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9460
Hurricane > BS turrets
|
Hellsmoke
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 20:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tippia the only reason he had this problem is because he failed at flying his ship. The game does not need to (and most certainly should not) be changed just to accommodate this silly failure on his part.
Right,and all the other threads on "fix blasters" are all doing it wrong too right?Everything you say in this thread is stupid even though it sounds like you believe it yourself,and that your enjoying life.If ccp put out a doomsday mod for frigs you'd be saying working as intended.A good skilled bs should wreck a bc anyday.The mega only has a few options when it comes to fittings.You need the web,you need the scram,you need the mwd and you need the cap injector.Period.
And in low you need the slots for dps and tank.There is no room to put a tracking mod on a ship that is supposed to have a tracking bonus.It needs to be fixed.Infact the whole Gallente concept needs to be fixed.
That blaster boats need a fix is well known so qft and wait around and see if they dont fix that after so many complain,even people who dont fly them agree.
|
Aylara
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:03:00 -
[17]
Yeah, I should have been more explicit in describing the class relationship, I though the second paragraph would take care of that: frigates < cruisers < battlecruisers < battleships but frigates ∤ battlecruisers ∧ battleships and cruisers ∤ battleships.
When EVE got bigger and devs thought how to expand the ship classes, differently from what was previously developed, they came with "roles" and that's where T2 and now T3 fit in. But T1 didn't change and retain the simple purpose they first had: kill easier 1 class smaller ships but have problems killing 2 class smaller ships.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hellsmoke Right,and all the other threads on "fix blasters" are all doing it wrong too right?
Most other threads include more sensible scenarios than one that demonstrates the deliberate scaling between larger guns and smaller targetsà oh, and they tend to focus on buffing the range, not the tracking. Care to make a guess why?
Quote: Everything you say in this thread is stupid
So you agree, then, seeing as how you can offer no counter-argument.
Quote: If ccp put out a doomsday mod for frigs you'd be saying working as intended.
No. That's just you projecting.
Quote: A good skilled bs should wreck a bc anyday.
Exactly. They can. The problem here is that the OP failed to apply his skills ù the scenario presented tells us exactly zero about the issues that exist with blasters.
Quote: The mega only has a few options when it comes to fittings.You need the web,you need the scram,you need the mwd and you need the cap injector.Period.
And in low you need the slots for dps and tank.There is no room to put a tracking mod on a ship that is supposed to have a tracking bonus.
"Supposed to"? It has a tracking bonus ù no "supposed" there. Oh, I don't know if you noticed, but you just proved that there is room for tracking modsà
This, however, doesn't change the fact that he was using the wrong size guns for the target he was going after. And again, no tracking bonus in the world will help you if you aren't flying the ship properly. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Steve Celeste
Overdogs
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:10:00 -
[19]
OP trained gallente HAHAHAHAHAAAA
*points and laughs
|
Jennifer Starling
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vaal Erit And 100 m/s is about the speed that a plated mega gets. Even if the mega is webbed he is going ~50 m/s which means you can cut the transversal of the hurricane down to nothing or next to nothing and get near perfect hits.
Yes, if you just sit there and expect to wtfpwn anything with large blasters you need to find a timemachine back to 2007. In 2010 you need to actually worry about transversal in blaster ships just like you do with every other ship. Learn to play, noob.
That's good advice.
Yesterday I was fighting a 'Geddon in my Hurricane and I noticed the same thing. At very close range while orbiting, the megapulses hardly could get a decent hit, even with 2xTE and a TP. I was really surprised (I'm not complaining, though )
|
|
Yuki Kulotsuki
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hellsmoke That blaster boats need a fix is well known so qft...
I don't think that means what you think it means
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:21:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/10/2010 21:22:49 Let's get some perspective here.
-He was flying with large neutron blasters, the worst-tracking large blasters available.
-You were using the closest ranged ammo. Close range makes it harder to track stuff
-You presumably did not have any modules to increase your tracking fitted (TCs, TEs, and/or target painters) except one web.
You seem to think that a single web should mean that everything always tracks all the time. You aren't even *****ing that you were losing, you are complaining that you weren't winning fast enough.
|
Hellsmoke
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Hellsmoke on 25/10/2010 21:44:08
Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki
Originally by: Hellsmoke That blaster boats need a fix is well known so qft...
I don't think that means what you think it means
I dont care what they do,but as is blaster boats need help.Thats their problem to figure out how.Or does ccp pay me to play?
Im not saying make them pwn mobiles,but any one who has been in eve long enough and knows his stuff,knows that blasters need some fixing.Doesn't have to be blasters that get a buff,but gallente as is needs to be looked at again.Just like their destroyer has been lopsided for years.Its no secret that this game is full of faults,if I take my time I can name around 50 of them that I see daily.And Im not talking things I would change,but things that bug out or are just done really sloppy and forgotten.
Not saying eve isnt the best around,just really far from perfect.
Originally by: Steve Celeste OP trained gallente HAHAHAHAHAAAA
*points and laughs
Exactly what most people are thinking tbh.Point proven.
|
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 01:27:00 -
[24]
You can pop small targets if you appease the transversal gods. I also always carry a standard drop booster in my mega for those situations where you need the extra tracking.
A decent tactic is to do a mwd pulse away from the target and let him think he can leave web/scram range, pilots tend to try to straight line away at that point, dropping transversal and resulting in them getting popped. Worked like a charm on a vaga.
|
Jennifer Starling
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 08:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/10/2010 09:02:04
Originally by: Hellsmoke I dont care what they do, but as is blaster boats need help. Thats their problem to figure out how. Or does ccp pay me to play?
The OP's problem is a tracking issue, not a blasters problem. Projectile turrets and lasers have exact the same problem in this situation. To solve the problem the OP should learn how to deal with it, there's been given plenty of good advice to help him get around it.
|
|
CCP Spitfire
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 10:39:00 -
[26]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
|
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 10:42:00 -
[27]
moar webs?
|
Avithren
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 12:57:00 -
[28]
So, OP's argument: bigger ships should always win against smaller ships.
Boy, is he in for a rough ride...
|
HeIIfire11
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Avithren So, OP's argument: bigger ships should always win against smaller ships.
Boy, is he in for a rough ride...
No,hes saying that his ship should be able to hit a ship class one size smaller than his.Which I agree with.I could understand if it was a cruiser or smaller.but even that is a broken game machanic in my opinion.It sucks when your in a battleship,sitting there like a beached whale,getting eaten by some frigates.Why even train up battleships then?
|
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:50:00 -
[30]
How bout learn something about tracking and not sit like a duck. Reducing transversal speed should help hitting targets smaller your size, or fit another web/painter.
|
|
LiMu Bai
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:51:00 -
[31]
Just use a overpowered Drake next time.
|
Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:53:00 -
[32]
You've run into the major problem with blasters, which is that at their optimal range the effective traversal speed (which directly relates to turret tracking) makes it VERY DIFFICULT to hit even another BS ship within their intended engagement envelope unless both ships are sitting perfectly still. Whilst it's common to hear Laser users complaining about the same issue, the traversal at their engagement range (20-40km) is far more manageable, much the same with Autocannons.
As for your specific situation; I'm assuming you don't have Gal BS V which would result in a very large tracking boost for the Mega, and honestly most fits should also be packing either a TE in the lows or a tracking computer to further boost that advantage. The Hurricane is a great ship and with the fatal explosive hole in gallente armor resists it's unsurprising you popped to one rather quickly.
Either way, yeah it happens.... the question is how to fix blasters so they 'work' without making ships like the Megathron a PWNmobile for anything smaller.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |