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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.10.31 11:12:00 -
[151]
Originally by: CCP Explorer That entails: For a fixed number of pilots we can reduce lag. For fixed lag we can increase the number of pilots. Tonight's battle was an example of the latter.
"Fleets expand to fill the lag available"
Which reinforces the meta-issue: N**2 explodes a lot faster than M * ( (N/M)**2 ). Which means the only long-term solution is game design solutions that make large blobs both strategically and tactically unwise, and spreads large battles so they occur in multiple systems (or more precisely, multiple nodes).
IMHO a very serious discussion between CCP and player experts, with an eye to coming up with possible changes and tiger-teaming them before implementation, is long overdue.
Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician The most expensive free trip to Iceland you'll ever win!
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.10.31 11:16:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Explorer That entails: For a fixed number of pilots we can reduce lag. For fixed lag we can increase the number of pilots. Tonight's battle was an example of the latter.
"Fleets expand to fill the lag available"
Which reinforces the meta-issue: N**2 explodes a lot faster than M * ( (N/M)**2 ). Which means the only long-term solution is game design solutions that make large blobs both strategically and tactically unwise, and spreads large battles so they occur in multiple systems (or more precisely, multiple nodes).
IMHO a very serious discussion between CCP and player experts, with an eye to coming up with possible changes and tiger-teaming them before implementation, is long overdue.
Yes, ultimately the only long-term solution that is viable must involve hardware, software and game design changes.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2010.10.31 11:22:00 -
[153]
I don't know much about how 0.0 works but......
Perhaps sovereignty can be decided in future for large areas based on capturing 'key systems' that have pimped resources and strategic importance due to location. These systems could live on permanently re-enforced nodes such as the one demonstrated last night. Big alliances would want these so this is where all the big fights would kick off, less attractive systems could live on smaller servers as only smaller groups would be fighting for them i.e. less combatants due to less resources and backwater type nature of the systems.
There is historical precedent - why were all the wars fought in France and Belgium - same deal.
Nice work CCP, loved watching last night and now interested in 0.0 which I had previously thought was a bore and lag fest!
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Douchie McNitpick
Money Liberation Services Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.31 12:56:00 -
[154]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Yes, ultimately the only long-term solution that is viable must involve hardware, software and game design changes.
Would it be possible to have something like a moderated discussion (preferrably in a forum subsection) on the subject of game design changes? There are thousands of people in Eve who have dealt with the sov systems, there is lots of experience from people fighting in factional warfare and npc 0.0. Imo it would be a good idea to just bounce ideas around a bit.
I don't want to diminish the role of the CSM in this process, but as much as the CSM is useful in favourably influencing the signal to noise ratio, considering that the problems are on so many levels, the experiences from everyone might be very helpful in determining both the points of view from different groups (including CCP), but also in identifying potential solutions.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:01:00 -
[155]
Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
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Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:07:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
dude....
i would so blow the **** out of any ccp person given the chance.
thats like the ultimate kill mail.
get out. _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Hyveres
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:14:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
Let me get this straight. You have several hundred players operating under NBSI and a neutral shows up as the lone nonblue on the field and you expect them not to shoot him?
CCP has access to invulnerable ships and should use them in any situation which involves a large fleet of 0.0 residents. They have done so before.
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:23:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
It's safe to say that you don't "get" Eve. Or 0.0. Or Eve Devs.
I am sure having to /tr into the system again was a huge inconvenience for CCP Atlas.
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Honkytonk Johnson
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:50:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Honkytonk Johnson on 31/10/2010 13:54:42
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
lol... I was on that kill, and as far as im concerned its NBSI, and he showed up as neut so unlees CCP diplos can work wonders, id happily blast him out of the sky again. Game mechanics u know;-) So take your ban and stuff it with pink flowers and pour nice smelling oils all over it. Otherwise i might take offense.
I am sorry if it screwed up some form of data retrieval.
Edit. Not any more sorry than ccp was last time i sat and watched a blank screen for hours. This time the lag was bad but considering the amount of ppl, drones and ammo flying around I put my hands together for a well deserved clap. Nice work ccp.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:08:00 -
[160]
Nice job proving my point all of you.
Hugs <3
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Honkytonk Johnson
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:22:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Teinyhr Nice job proving my point all of you.
Hugs <3
Just because a few of us now know how it feels to kill agent smith, you shouldnt whine about it, and call for our banning.
Don your tin foil hat and go bug hunting on the sissy server.
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Minthos
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:49:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev Edited by: Nikolai Kondratiev on 31/10/2010 02:12:41 Edited by: Nikolai Kondratiev on 31/10/2010 02:12:22 About the memory stuff, you'll notice that RAM usage is far from being the issue. Memory usage went up to 7.5 GB, on a server that probably has 12-24 GB availaible, while CPU is crying for help.
And also, node certainly needs to store quite more informations (and not just about players) than you think
Yes, that much is obvious. I was asking what that information was. Perhaps memory use isn't an issue, but it'd still be interesting to know why it's so high.
With 2.3 MB per user on a combat node, it stands to reason that the total is higher when you include market nodes and other non-combat data in the tally.
I did some benchmarks at home somewhat related to this issue, and discovered two things: A data structure with 4-byte pointers had much lower memory use and somewhat lower CPU use than the same structure with 8-byte pointers. Also, due to memory fragmentation, the CPU use for each operation would increase by about 100% as entities were moved around in the game world.
Now I'm not saying this has any relevance to EVE, since obviously I know nothing about EVE's internals. Just pointing out that sometimes, reducing memory use also reduces CPU use.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2010.10.31 15:39:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
in my optinions, devs should be in cloaky ships.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion OWTBS Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.31 15:43:00 -
[164]
Dear everyone that is complaining about the people who shot CCP Atlas in his special ship.
You all got Dev Trolled.
There was nothing special about that ship other than the name.
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sirnine
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:00:00 -
[165]
Wait till we get deeper into drone space, there will be even bigger fights.
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Bartman Sr
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Posted - 2010.10.31 16:06:00 -
[166]
Well now that it's over I can say I was there.
Not really much to tell of my experience. I Titan Bridged in, that took 2 hours, then I sat in LXQ2-T loading grid for another hour. I never actually fully loaded the grid, So I logged off and did RL stuff.
Came back tried to log in and that took another 2 hours. During that time I wrote a petition to CCP asking to "please kill me" and promised never to try to jump in a fight with 3000 in local again. LOL
when I did log in I asked for the NC to kill me, which they were happy to help with.
This battle makes me think the old area effect Doomsday would have been nice to reduce numbers.
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Ascendic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:21:00 -
[167]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: kyrieee Heh, are you saying we actually destroyed lag measuring equipment when we killed Atlas?
Yep.
Quote: Also, I'm curious, how was this node different from normal RF-ed nodes?
It is the same code everywhere (new and improved) but this node is the "Jita supernode", i.e., the hardware that was used to set the Jita record.
I must say Explorer that this would re-enforce the idea that you guys do not know your own game very well. If you think that in the middle of a massive fleet fight (or anywhere in 0.0 fleet fight or not) Someone flying around who is a neutral (noob ship or not) is not going to get popped for lols? Esepcially when its a CCP employee? Really?
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YipKai Foon
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:38:00 -
[168]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Yes, ultimately the only long-term solution that is viable must involve hardware, software and game design changes.
Impose jump delays on gates so that fights take place in different systems. Problem solved.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:38:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Ascendic I must say Explorer that this would re-enforce the idea that you guys do not know your own game very well. If you think that in the middle of a massive fleet fight (or anywhere in 0.0 fleet fight or not) Someone flying around who is a neutral (noob ship or not) is not going to get popped for lols? Esepcially when its a CCP employee? Really?
And this reinforces the idea that 0.0 alliances are full of arrogant brats CCP can never please.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ascendic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:42:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic I must say Explorer that this would re-enforce the idea that you guys do not know your own game very well. If you think that in the middle of a massive fleet fight (or anywhere in 0.0 fleet fight or not) Someone flying around who is a neutral (noob ship or not) is not going to get popped for lols? Esepcially when its a CCP employee? Really?
And this reinforces the idea that 0.0 alliances are full of arrogant brats CCP can never please.
If you think 0.0 alliances are the only ones who think the same way then you are an idiot and also know nothing of EVE.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:47:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Ascendic If you think 0.0 alliances are the only ones who think the same way then you are an idiot and also know nothing of EVE.
Think the same way about what? You knowing the game better than the CCP devs themselves, and anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot?
Go back to your sycophantic chat channels where that might fly.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ascendic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:51:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic If you think 0.0 alliances are the only ones who think the same way then you are an idiot and also know nothing of EVE.
Think the same way about what? You knowing the game better than the CCP devs themselves, and anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot?
Go back to your sycophantic chat channels where that might fly.
Yeah, that is exactly what I said you moron. Go learn some reading comprehension, re-read the post and try again.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:52:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic I must say Explorer that this would re-enforce the idea that you guys do not know your own game very well. If you think that in the middle of a massive fleet fight (or anywhere in 0.0 fleet fight or not) Someone flying around who is a neutral (noob ship or not) is not going to get popped for lols? Esepcially when its a CCP employee? Really?
And this reinforces the idea that 0.0 alliances are full of arrogant brats CCP can never please.
Oh please. You have 1000+ guys in fleet, bored as hell, with itchy trigger fingers. Do you seriously expect that none of them will see something on overview and not shoot first, ask questions later?
If so, all I can say is that you have obviously never been in a large fleet.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:52:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Ascendic
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic If you think 0.0 alliances are the only ones who think the same way then you are an idiot and also know nothing of EVE.
Think the same way about what? You knowing the game better than the CCP devs themselves, and anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot?
Go back to your sycophantic chat channels where that might fly.
Yeah, that is exactly what I said you moron. Go learn some reading comprehension, re-read the post and try again.
Might suggest the same for you, because you missed how they normally remain cloaked to keep from being attacked.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
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CCP Atlas
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:55:00 -
[175]
Originally by: About Mesale
Originally by: Teinyhr Right, can I suggest that CCP temp bans people who shoot - and actually I mean destroy devs? At least in a case like this where they were around to measure lag and performance... So pretty much whoever decided to shoot CCP Atlas have no right to ***** and whine about module lag as far as I see it, ever.
It's safe to say that you don't "get" Eve. Or 0.0. Or Eve Devs.
I am sure having to /tr into the system again was a huge inconvenience for CCP Atlas.
They are sooo going to take that ship out of my paycheck
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Ascendic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.31 18:09:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Ascendic on 31/10/2010 18:12:26
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Ascendic If you think 0.0 alliances are the only ones who think the same way then you are an idiot and also know nothing of EVE.
Think the same way about what? You knowing the game better than the CCP devs themselves, and anyone who doesn't believe you is an idiot?
Go back to your sycophantic chat channels where that might fly.
Yeah, that is exactly what I said you moron. Go learn some reading comprehension, re-read the post and try again.
Might suggest the same for you, because you missed how they normally remain cloaked to keep from being attacked.
And YOU missed the entire point. If they thought anything else would have happened besides isnta pop once someone decloaks in a noob ship in the middle of a fight then they do not understand EVE. There was no reason to be upset, the same would have happened to anyone and they should know better
Please continue to argue pointlessly and prove further that you have no idea how things work in this game.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.31 18:17:00 -
[177]
I'm sure having a CCP employee KM is just too tempting
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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xXaRaXx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.31 18:55:00 -
[178]
I see the improvements. Nice!
But, are you doing anything about the log in problems? I just logged off 1+ hour ago and i still hvanet been able to log in.
I would not expect to be able to log in when 3000+ players are in the system, but when i logged off only 1100 were in the solarsystem :(
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2010.10.31 18:57:00 -
[179]
Now people will be in fleets of 5000 just to break the server.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.31 19:20:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Ascendic If they thought anything else would have happened besides isnta pop once someone decloaks in a noob ship in the middle of a fight then they do not understand EVE.
They never said they didn't expect it. Them normally being cloaked to stay out of harms way indicates they do expect such things to happen.
They only said that they didn't appreciate it. Did you expect them to be pleased they were blown up while trying to monitor things?
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
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