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Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2012.08.07 03:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I usually dislike making suggestions about something I really enjoy but here's my idea anyway...
To remove local In a way which benefits the game and has the approval of the players. (which the player base in mostly in favor off from what I can judge) I'll make a couple of suggestions and relate each one to gameplay and game consistency.
Keep local in hisec systems. First off, it would keep the carebears happy - they like their security, their quiet systems or being able to watch local like a hawk in war time. It avoids driving out the soft and cuddly belly of the eve universe. It makes sense when you think that highsec is inhabited, policed space, with good facilities and monitored access.
In lowsec, I think something a little less safe. These systems are occupied as well, but the regulations are far more lax, with communications facilities nowhere near as advanced or well maintained as hisec. To this end I'd only add pilots to local after they've been in system for about 5 minutes, or If they dock in station. Alternatively make the local channels suffer from delays, or make it update once every 5 minutes - I'm using 5 mins here as a benchmark; it's simply what I consider a decent length of time to be, and is totally up for debate). It keeps things risky and encourages small gang pvp and hit and run tactics when roaming in lowsec.
In nullsec there should be no local comms. If an alliance manages to get sovereignty in a system and builds up the strategic index to some level (I thought 3, but again this is up for debate) then they can anchor a local communications monitor or some such module at a POS. This would allow citizens of the system (or even constellation) to have an active and updated local channel - perhaps this ability could also be modified by choosing who to allow to see the local channel - alliance, allies or everyone. This would revolutionize how people use null. Either having to hold a high strategic level across your active systems or running the risk of wide open expanses of unmonitored space. It would mean that smaller independent corps would be able to slip under the radar and set up in small pockets of space without comms, mimicking the hazards of deep space living similar to wormholes. It would mean that the concentrations of pilots in nullsec block alliances would be pushed further into the central systems, essentially starting it's own complex risk vs. reward strategies. Do you chill where everyone else is and earn little money or do you brave the radio dark to find great riches? It would also give invaders an excellent target - destroying your enemies intelligence is a vital strategy in war!
Using the local like this would make sense in game terms, as the areas of nullsec are not policed or attended over by the megacorporations that would typically support the massive communications batteries required for local channels. In their stead, capsuleers take charge of the day to day running of these services.
Let me know what you think!
p.s I also think it would be great fun in NPC nullsec to only have access to local channels if you have good standings with the sov holding NPC's :D pirates, unite! |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
187
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Posted - 2012.08.07 04:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I liked the discussion in the CSM minutes with the possblity of Hiding in the Belts in anommolies which may result in hiding from local. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2012.08.07 04:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes I thought it was quite nice too, but does every miner want to learn scanning skills? And also the prevalence of grav sites especially in systems with industry ihubs would make it less important for sov holding alliances.
Also, edit on my original post -------
I just read the forum rules (for some reason i never read them before i post...) and was quite happy seeing no significant local chat threads until i reached the bit where it had a whole catagory on it. So err, mods? Feel free to lock this thread if u want. If you do i'll try posting my ideas somewhere already established. My bad. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
7
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Posted - 2012.08.07 08:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
As far as I can see, all those old threads are really old. So I can't see a reason why we can't start a fresh one.
And I like the idea. I dont spend much time in 0.0 - but I visit there time after time and IMO the intellegence is obtained way too easy. Of course, in a settled system, the sovereignty holder should see the local. Otherwise, if you want intellegence - scan it. It works in wormholes, and works fine.
Nothing really to say about it. This feature MUST BE. It will bring a true meaning to the sovereignty. It'll bring risk, it'll bring pew-pew - isn't it what Inferno is all about?
As for back back side of it - most carebearing population (including bots) will tend to move closer to capitals. But they will loose profits if they do, so it's a natural risk/reward play. And bots are easier to detect when concentrated. So the idea just has no drawbacks. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
61
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Posted - 2012.08.07 14:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gonna point out something to ya here...
Durbon Groth wrote:Yes I thought it was quite nice too, but does every miner want to learn scanning skills? I am a miner. Local, specially in hi sec, does nothing to help miners or mission runners.
The only exception to that rule is for a war dec, or if someone you know personally enters. And for the latter you can have them flagged to alert you if they come online anyhow. (The former can't apply if you are in an NPC corp)
This means local in high is showing you meaningless data. You have no way of sorting out the garbage. Who is docked up in a station? Dunno. Who is also mining or missioning, (not a threat). Dunno. Who is passing through, possibly slowly on auto pilot? Dunno. Who is actually coming towards your location, and a possible reason to align for fast exit? Dunno.
At least with D-Scan you can get a heads up on who is coming near you. If they aren't at least doing that, I couldn't care less who they are or what they do. |
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2012.08.07 14:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I see your point Mary but from my experience of highsec mining local is just nice. There's no reason not to have it and I've met some good friends and made some excellent collaborations from talking to other miners in local during long ops. I think that having local channels in empire makes sense in game terms and also It helps to reinforce one of eve's strengths, the fact it is an MMO on a single server. There is a very social aspect to the game and In certain areas at least, It should be reinforced.
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Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
61
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Posted - 2012.08.07 15:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not talking about removing social, or even suggesting it.
Put local on a delay. Make it so noone pops into local without wanting to, and they can either check a box or say something for them to appear.
Voluntary presence for social.
Every ganked pilot in high sec had local there to help them. The problem is local can't help with intel, especially in high sec.
In many systems there are too many names to even consider trying to track. Insanely useless.
In the systems with a list you can see all at once, you have no way of knowing what is useful beyond what I mentioned before.
Local in high is a crutch that is broken for intel, but keeps being misused for it. Break the delusion and help people play the actual game. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
9
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Posted - 2012.08.07 18:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dont think hisec local hurts anyone. I'm mostly talking about 0.0 local, which hurts PVP in the place designed for PVP. And by the way, I've set -5 standing to Goonwaffe, and watching the local helped me to mine relatively safe during hulkogeddon. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
61
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sinzor Aumer wrote:I dont think hisec local hurts anyone. I'm mostly talking about 0.0 local, which hurts PVP in the place designed for PVP. And by the way, I've set -5 standing to Goonwaffe, and watching the local helped me to mine relatively safe during hulkogeddon. I think local in null is a bit crazy too.
I have heard it compared to a fast food menu in a drive through. A fast ship can zip through too many systems too quickly just using local to hunt with.
Find a target named in a system? Boom, stop looking for which system to probe, local just handed it to you.
As for high sec local hurting anyone, I never said it hurt anyone. I just said pilots were wasting time by using it for intel, when it doesn't really do anything useful.
You ran into something an awful lot like a war dec, having an entire group you could flag that way. Not something pilots often need to handle that way.
But like I said above,
The only exception to that rule is for a war dec, or if someone you know personally enters.
Your example was somewhere in between those two, being a group of suspected hostiles you personally wanted to avoid. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
433
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Posted - 2012.08.07 19:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Having a sov upgrade that provides local intel to alliance members and/or blues is obnoxiously unbalanced....
Intel should be available moreless equally to all parties. It's not necessarily a bad thing for some sov upgrade to make it easier to gain intel, but any intel they can ascertain should also be available, through effort/game mechanics, to invaders. IMO, Scouting should be the primary method to get access to intel, and ideally the game mechanics allow pilots to automatically share some intel with fleet members...
Check out my idea for replacing local with an intel tool: Replace Local with an Intel Tool
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
418
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Posted - 2012.08.07 20:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
local won't go away.. stop your stupid bitching. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1054
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Posted - 2012.08.07 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Having a sov upgrade that provides local intel to alliance members and/or blues is obnoxiously unbalanced.... Intel should be available moreless equally to all parties. It's not necessarily a bad thing for some sov upgrade to make it easier to gain intel, but any intel they can ascertain should also be available, through effort/game mechanics, to invaders. IMO, Scouting should be the primary method to get access to intel, and ideally the game mechanics allow pilots to automatically share some intel with fleet members... Check out my idea for replacing local with an intel tool: Replace Local with an Intel Tool
Just let the scout dudes hack the intel upgrade and get access to the network. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
433
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Posted - 2012.08.07 22:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Having a sov upgrade that provides local intel to alliance members and/or blues is obnoxiously unbalanced.... Intel should be available moreless equally to all parties. It's not necessarily a bad thing for some sov upgrade to make it easier to gain intel, but any intel they can ascertain should also be available, through effort/game mechanics, to invaders. IMO, Scouting should be the primary method to get access to intel, and ideally the game mechanics allow pilots to automatically share some intel with fleet members... Check out my idea for replacing local with an intel tool: Replace Local with an Intel Tool Just let the scout dudes hack the intel upgrade and get access to the network.
Having a hack-able intel unit, where you could hack the intel channel isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it seems much more productive to have a way to easily disable it instead...
Also, I personally think intel gathering needs to be more active... not necessarily with button pushing... but to figure out who is at that faroff planet, you should have to fly your ship near it and check it out. I think the standard state of affairs upon entering a system is you can quickly assess the number of pilots in a system but you don't know who they are, who they are affiliated with, or what they are flying until you recon them within some type of auto-functioning on-board intel long-range scanner. --- By quickly being able to identify how many pilots are in local, you have a reasonable chance of assessing dangerous situations. This is extremely important for finding a fight. --- By not knowing if a new local is hostile or not, you have some semblance of anonymity when traveling through space, which is a good thing, as it allows traps, but not obnoxiously biased traps.
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1626
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Posted - 2012.08.08 05:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Gonna point out something to ya here... Durbon Groth wrote:Yes I thought it was quite nice too, but does every miner want to learn scanning skills? I am a miner. Local, specially in hi sec, does nothing to help miners or mission runners. The only exception to that rule is for a war dec, or if someone you know personally enters. And for the latter you can have them flagged to alert you if they come online anyhow. (The former can't apply if you are in an NPC corp) This means local in high is showing you meaningless data. You have no way of sorting out the garbage. Who is docked up in a station? Dunno. Who is also mining or missioning, (not a threat). Dunno. Who is passing through, possibly slowly on auto pilot? Dunno. Who is actually coming towards your location, and a possible reason to align for fast exit? Dunno. At least with D-Scan you can get a heads up on who is coming near you. If they aren't at least doing that, I couldn't care less who they are or what they do.
Unlike Mary here....
Some of us know how to benefit from local while mining or running missions... |
Motoko Kusanagui
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.08.08 06:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Although right now local in null is a benefit for me I think the idea is good, removing local from null and changing the way it works in low would be nice.
With CCP trying to make more high sec players move to low, wh, and null space I doubt they'll do something like what is proposed here. |
Neotin Nahrain
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
24
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Posted - 2012.08.08 06:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
It is interesting idea, and no doubt i will like the 0.0 to be dangerous space. Currently tho - 0.0 is quite empty from targets. Its hard to get a good fight unless you fly 5-10 systems and use local to narrow a target that if wants can slip trough the Other gate. An local disabled and facility to get reports of nearby systems - the today intel channels will be available only for sov holders. Thats how it is right now anyway. But there has to be more point of holding/defending and conquering the 0.0 space. As it is now only moon mining/normal mining in grav and high ratting targets(that usually is done in 2-3 systems in whole constellations. Moon mining is getting a nerf soon - so ccp claims. I guess we have a wormholes for this - higher value targets, no local , only grav sites(who mines in 0.0 belts anymore)...
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Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group
9
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Posted - 2012.08.08 06:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Denidil wrote:local won't go away.. stop your stupid bitching. It's already gone, lol. Check it out in any wormhole. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
61
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Posted - 2012.08.08 13:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Mary Annabelle wrote:Gonna point out something to ya here... Durbon Groth wrote:Yes I thought it was quite nice too, but does every miner want to learn scanning skills? I am a miner. Local, specially in hi sec, does nothing to help miners or mission runners. The only exception to that rule is for a war dec, or if someone you know personally enters. And for the latter you can have them flagged to alert you if they come online anyhow. (The former can't apply if you are in an NPC corp) This means local in high is showing you meaningless data. You have no way of sorting out the garbage. Who is docked up in a station? Dunno. Who is also mining or missioning, (not a threat). Dunno. Who is passing through, possibly slowly on auto pilot? Dunno. Who is actually coming towards your location, and a possible reason to align for fast exit? Dunno. At least with D-Scan you can get a heads up on who is coming near you. If they aren't at least doing that, I couldn't care less who they are or what they do. Unlike Mary here.... Some of us know how to benefit from local while mining or running missions... Ok, I want to benefit as well, please help me learn.
Let's say this is high sec. I see someone in local. In this case, there are about 20 names in system, but I am just grabbing the top one for this right now.
I don't know the name. The name has no standing towards me as a pilot, or my corp. The name has no war dec towards my corp or alliance. Unless they are cloaked, they are not on grid with me.
Just for fun, lets say the other 19 names profile out the same as that first one. How does local help me? |
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