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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:13:00 -
[1]
Edited by: mchief117 on 11/11/2010 23:20:52 Alright i was talking to one of my out of corp Buddy's lately and he mentioned a problem he was having. he currently flys in a small section of low sec ( no names ) and regularly must transport large quantities of what ever to that system. how ever roaming gangs have been a problem. even when flying a hard hitting escort fleet most gangs auto lock the indys/occasional freighters , pop them and then try an get the cargo , all while the escort trys to defend. and while they usually obliterate most of the attackers the indys usually suffer ship loses and no BS/BC can hold that much cargo.
to this end i suggest a new module/flying technique.
in any space movie bigger combat ships generally defend smaller ships by shooting fast and actually getting in between the attacker and the target acting as a physical shield. Due to the current setup of the eve game engine i doubt that that can be effectively done so i suggest 2 options.
option 1 skilled based ability - you select a right click option to defend, and as long as you stay with in 3.5k of a ship you take 20% * skill level of any damage inflicted to that ship. does not affect other ships that are "defending"
option 2 new module - a special ECM style device that projects a bubble 3.5 k wide. any ship inside this bubble cant be targeted with the exception of the host ship , but at the same time cant target anything itself. ships may elect to not receive this bonus through a right click menu option.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:51:00 -
[2]
lol @ mobile RR safespot.
I do agree tanking is something that would be interesting along the lines of your option 1, but as a module. Mostly because Eve seems slow to adopt the tank - dps - heal mechanic, partly due to tanking..not existing, and logistics being a bit straightforward and needing more SP.
So sure, +1 to the spirit of this thread if not the specifics.
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klyeme
Soft War
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Posted - 2010.11.11 23:56:00 -
[3]
Option 2 would be best. Anyone within the 3.5k (skill dependent?) bubble would be unable to be targeted. The ships inside the bubble will be able to lock the ships outside but only the ship that is powering the bubble can be targeted from outside, once inside the bubble, everything is fair game. The ship would be a T2 ship cruiser sized hull. Any ship within the bubble will be unable to receive RR support from inside or outside the bubble.
This would not be over powered because the ship with the bubble would be able to be killed quite easily when the bubble is up. The bubble would also make it impossible for any of the ships inside of it to be repped, making any logistics ships in the bubble "trapped."
Or you might have to install a special form of ECCM on your ship to be able to target outside of the bubble while it is up.
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Tactical Miner
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:21:00 -
[4]
It would be fun to deploy the bubble and fly right at the attackers...
They lose target lock and you get to pew pew with blasters, especially if they brought something big to the fight like a carrier. Sure they can't lock, nor be attacked from the outside, but if you reduce the big dps from a roam, then you have changed the dynamics of the fight considerably.
Something like this can be used as a weapon too...
Way too OP for ECM
I would favor a sensor strength modification bubble rather than a total blackout. That way ECM become more effective for the defenders. |
Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.12 00:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mchief117 [...] he currently flys in a small section of low sec ( no names ) and regularly must transport large quantities of what ever to that system.
I bolded the conceptual error you made for you. I seriously doubt someone forces him at gunpoint to regularily transport "stuff" to that very place.
And you are aware what both your options would do to large scale battles involving capital ships? I can already see the supercaps escorted by their mighty shuttle fleet which soaks up the damage...
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 01:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kabaal S''sylistha on 12/11/2010 01:46:36
Originally by: Dlardrageth
I can already see the supercaps escorted by their mighty shuttle fleet which soaks up the damage...
Slippery slope fail. You should have gone for the worst case scenario with the most imbalanced application of the idea. Which is obviously a Drake blob with nothing but defender missiles x 7 and the tanking module, fully tank fitted, and the module splits up the damage equally between all the tanks on the target. As well as reduces it to the damage the smaller ship would receive.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.12 05:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: mchief117 on 12/11/2010 05:53:10 Tactical Miner - this ability is friendly/fleet only nothing happens to hostiles target locks should they enter the bubble as it is mearly a mechanic for you using your ship as a shield, as the eve engine ( as far as a know ) can't actualy do this atm
Dlardrageth - Instead of attacking my reasion for creating this idea how about looking at the idea itself
Kabaal S'sylistha - not sure if you read this but any ship using the module/ pilot settings is not affected by any other ship doing the same
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mchief117 option 1 skilled based ability - you select a right click option to defend, and as long as you stay with in 3.5k of a ship you take 20% * skill level of any damage inflicted to that ship. does not affect other ships that are "defending"
option 2 new module - a special ECM style device that projects a bubble 3.5 k wide. any ship inside this bubble cant be targeted with the exception of the host ship , but at the same time cant target anything itself. ships may elect to not receive this bonus through a right click menu option.
option1: a battleship defenced falcon option2: the HIC like ship will save any a dying ships from being poped, not only industries, then they will have no lose.
Escort the freighter with ECMs and neuts, clear the way with ops. |
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: mchief117 Edited by: mchief117 on 12/11/2010 05:53:10
Kabaal S'sylistha - not sure if you read this but any ship using the module/ pilot settings is not affected by any other ship doing the same
I did, was just commenting on someone else's comment. Forgot my sarcasm tags.
And yeah, I read it. Threads on this usually say something along the same lines of limiting it but I always preferred DR to a hard cap. I already +1'd to the idea of putting meatshields in.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.12 07:49:00 -
[10]
Or your friend could just train into a blockade runner instead.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:00:00 -
[11]
nice interesting idea, also i like the combinations what else you could do with such a thing. +1
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.11.13 01:23:00 -
[12]
Eve can already handle missile interception and target occulsion. They are just lagtastic.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.13 19:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: mchief117 [...] Dlardrageth - Instead of attacking my reasion for creating this idea how about looking at the idea itself [...]
How about you actually read the second part of my initial statement as well? I think it is a bad idea for 0.0 for starters unless you can absolutely guarantee it will not lead to yet another increase in lag or even more "blobby" warfare. Both these risks I see quite prevalent with what you suggest and thus, with best regards, still opposed to it.
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.11.13 21:44:00 -
[14]
Why don't you use logistic pilots in your support fleet to protect the industrials like any sensible FC would.
Not supported, there are methods already in place.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.11.13 21:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: debbie harrio
Why don't you use logistic pilots in your support fleet to protect the industrials like any sensible FC would.
Not supported, there are methods already in place.
So 'protect' in the dictionary you use means much the same as '****ing into the wind' does in mine.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Professor Screweyes
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Posted - 2010.11.13 22:53:00 -
[16]
I look forward to seeing drake blobs execute this. Null sec war is tedious enough without indestructible blobs. What you're describing would fall under some sort of... lets call it for lack of any other description, 'logistical support.' CCP should create a skill set and matching ship that would allow certain pilots to absorb- NO, remove damage. They can fit thingys that will remotely repair either armor, shields or hull. Yes! (brainstorming here...) they can call the ships logisti... wait a second - FIXBOATS! Yeah, that's it! CCP, we want FIXBOATS! Just an idea.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Oneironautics Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.14 00:03:00 -
[17]
How about giving freighters/indies a percent increase of armor/shield rep amount per level?
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.14 04:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Professor Screweyes I look forward to seeing drake blobs execute this. Null sec war is tedious enough without indestructible blobs. What you're describing would fall under some sort of... lets call it for lack of any other description, 'logistical support.' CCP should create a skill set and matching ship that would allow certain pilots to absorb- NO, remove damage. They can fit thingys that will remotely repair either armor, shields or hull. Yes! (brainstorming here...) they can call the ships logisti... wait a second - FIXBOATS! Yeah, that's it! CCP, we want FIXBOATS! Just an idea.
Failing at trolling and not realizing the tactical difference it makes to be able to prevent a portion of damage as opposed to having to apply a heal after it hits? -2 |
mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.14 04:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Professor Screweyes I look forward to seeing drake blobs execute this. Null sec war is tedious enough without indestructible blobs. What you're describing would fall under some sort of... lets call it for lack of any other description, 'logistical support.' CCP should create a skill set and matching ship that would allow certain pilots to absorb- NO, remove damage. They can fit thingys that will remotely repair either armor, shields or hull. Yes! (brainstorming here...) they can call the ships logisti... wait a second - FIXBOATS! Yeah, that's it! CCP, we want FIXBOATS! Just an idea.
additional failing note: adding a stupid idea into another and then trailing of wiht your own degenerating idea does not show a high IQ level.
this idea has nothing to do with damage reduction , simply damage redirection. the ability to use your ship as a living..... sort of shield to protect another less EHP gifted ship.
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steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.14 09:28:00 -
[20]
Or, you could just stop failing and use a blockade runner/jump freighter to get in with no need for an escort, or use webs and ecm to clear tackle and web into warp, or use tanked haulers, especially deep space transports, and logistics plus maybe a bit of EW to keep them alive. There are plenty of options out there, if you fail to use them, a skirmish fleet SHOULD be able to take out your weak valueable haulers and then GTFO.
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Professor Screweyes
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Posted - 2010.11.15 00:40:00 -
[21]
Quote: additional failing note: adding a stupid idea into another and then trailing of wiht your own degenerating idea does not show a high IQ level.
this idea has nothing to do with damage reduction , simply damage redirection. the ability to use your ship as a living..... sort of shield to protect another less EHP gifted ship.
clearly, sarcasm is lost on you. I'll put it plainly. 1) create a fleet with six ships in each squad. 2) put each of the other ships in the squad in your watch list 3) when one member of your watch list becomes primary, but your defensive bubble on it, absorbing 100% of all directed damage. Use logis to repair and repeat until dt ... have food and drink delivered and tie a bladder bag to your leg, because unless you self destruct or are met with a significantly larger fleet, this will take a while.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.11.15 04:34:00 -
[22]
Professor Screweyes, here's an alternate scenario:
I fly my Falcon which is fitted for maximum ECM power, eschewing any pretence of tanking. It's all ECM and hypnos boosters, with something like 2k EHP.
My 4 friends flying with me pilot heavily plated dominixes with this "damage redirection" module. Their dominixes each have in the order of 60k EHP.
We get into combat, my friends activate their "damage redirection" module on my Falcon. In order to blow my Falcon up, the enemy will have to do 240k damage.
As opposed to your scenario where no matter how many EHP my friends could restore to my ship every second, the enemy would only need to deal 2k damage in one salvo to blow up my Falcon.
This single-salvo damage is often referred to in PvP circles as "alpha strike" or "alpha" for short. There is a very real difference between tanking versus DPS or tanking versus alpha. You must realise that a damage redirection module is not in any way, shape or form equivalent to a remote repper.
Another application of a "damage redirection" module would be RR smart-bombing BS fleets with logistics support. The battleships cluster in close together, the RR orbit them tightly, and the BS activate the damage redirection module on their assigned logistics ship. So now not only do your attacks against the logistics craft get mitigated by the craft's speed and signature, you also have to chew through the vastly superior EHP of a plated battleship with your mitigated DPS in order to destroy that logistics vessel.
Using a module such as this to simulate the effects of "line of sight" is - to my thinking - an acceptable compromise, except when it comes to having multiple ships redirecting damage from one target. If it was implemented, this damage redirection module would have to act like a tractor beam - only one should be allowed to be active per target.
In the meantime, option 2 appeals to me somewhat, though I'd prefer such a "bubble" to cloak all ships inside it, in the same way as a prototype cloaking device does (as opposed to a covert ops cloaking device). Ships inside the bubble would be able to target enemies, but doing so would decloak that ship. Yes, I love the Arbitrator in Starcraft :)
Of course, I'd much prefer option 1 was replaced by actual line-of-sight firing rules, due to the opportunity to explore creative formations as part of space combat tactics.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
KaerBerohs
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Posted - 2010.11.15 06:53:00 -
[23]
I like the second option and if that's not bad enough, you're never really sure when what a person is typing is actually the post or some lame signature meant to confuse readers. |
captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.11.15 07:04:00 -
[24]
So what happens when I use my two Nyxes and three Aeons to "guard" my super-tanked hic?
ITT: virtually every un-implementable and/or stupid idea imaginable regarding fleet mechanics.
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bartos100
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Posted - 2010.11.15 09:37:00 -
[25]
it would be like a HIC only 1 type of ship can use it
say t2 BC and with a bubble around it
any ship inside the bubble will be unable to target anything
the ship making the bubble can not get RR
so if you escort an industrial you can get the industrial in warp inside the bubble but the bubble is useless in big fleet battles
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2010.11.15 10:50:00 -
[26]
for escorting freighters bring plenty of rr.
escorting DST and Indi's , make them fit cloaks. If you run into a camp cloak the indi's and have your excort fleet dispatch teh attackers.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.16 02:11:00 -
[27]
/facepalm
Why do people keep insisting on arguing the easily countered point like they're some kind of game design guru?
Here's two counters I'll just crap out. 1. Increased damage to 'blocking' ships through reduced resists and higher signature. Increases exponentially for additional blockers. Range on modules should be within <10K even for bonused ships. 2. Limitations to number of activated modules. Same range as above.
If a fleet is designed to tank it should be able to tank. If your fleet designed itself for dps and tank, then grats, you didn't bring enough dps or alpha.
TL;DR - I can use internet abbreviations too. Presenting alternatives is one thing, slippery slope arguments of infinite doom and easily seen abuses doesn't amount to much more than herpderp when you can present a solution if you stopped for 3 seconds.
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Khalia Nestune
Honorless Internet Jerks
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Posted - 2010.11.16 03:00:00 -
[28]
... or, your fleet could jump in *ahead* of the hauler, clear any hostiles, and then have you jump in.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.11.16 07:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Khalia Nestune ... or, your fleet could jump in *ahead* of the hauler, clear any hostiles, and then have you jump in.
yes, as another fleet chews up and spits out the token defence you left while the main force is *ahead* of the haulers.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.16 20:38:00 -
[30]
Or you could have one of the escort fleet, you know, scout ahead. I've heard that works well. Hard to kill an indy ship if it isn't in the same system as the camp after all.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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