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Ireland VonVicious
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Posted - 2010.11.14 01:55:00 -
[1]
After reading a ton of threads about tactical shield manipulation and how it works or doesn't work I'm going to try and set it straight here and now.
The forums are confused on this. The eve wiki has no clue as of the date of this posting.
Skill at preventing damage from penetrating the shield, including the use of shield hardeners and other advanced shield modules. Reduces the chance of damage penetrating the shield when it falls below 25% by 5% per skill level, with 0% chance at level 5.
Now there are 2 ways people I've talked to view this when they first read it from what I have seen:
1. They usally think this means your shields will not drop below 25% no matter what.
Then those who get the skill find out this is not the case. They then move on to the second theory if they had not already skipped the first to get to it.
2.The skill is made to stop shield leakage into armor. As we have all seen the leakage of damage into armor before the shields hit zero either on our own ships (( If you use shields)) or on npc ships/stations/turrets (( For those who don't)).
Most people see no real change from level 1-4 of this skill and then at level 5 there is a massive amount of shield left as damage hits armor.
Those with the second theory think that this is what happens when you don't have this skill trained as well. They are wrong. As how many tested shield tanks before they could fit hardners?
Here is what it does do:
The skill is doing exactly what it should do. Each level increases your chance of having shield leakage by 5% per shot against your ship.
This means at level 1 a shot against you ((when your shields are 25% or lower)) has a 1 in 20 chance of goinging into your armor. At level 4 you have a 1 in 5 chance of a shot causing armor leakage ((Again with shields at 25% or less)). At level 5 you have a 100% chance of shots going into your armor ((Again with shields at 25% or less)).
This does not mean your shield won't drop below 25%! It means it will pass damage down to your armor while keeping a high resist/shield rep until you go through 25% of the total amount of your shield health into your armor.
The end result is: You lose no total effective health and keep closer to your max shield recharge for a longer amount of time.
Your shields rep even when your shield hits zero ((No matter what level of this skill you have)). It just doesn't do it at peak rep.
This skill takes a portion of your armor and lets it recharge closer to your max shield recharge rate. That's it! It works, it works well, it does what the name says (( Tacticly Manipulates your shields )) even though the discription is written in a way that shows english is not the first language of the guy who wrote it.
It should have been written more like this:
Skill at preventing damage from lowering shield peak recharge rate. Also includes the use of shield hardeners and other advanced shield modules. Increases the chance of damage being moved into armor when shield falls below 25% by 5% per skill level, with 100% chance at level 5 upto health equal to 25% of shield health.
Now for a side note: Salvage skill and module have a similar issue. You do get 5% per salvage level but the salvagers discriptions are also wrong.
The percentages on them are per level of salvage not added to your total salvage chance.
Salvager 1's ((5%))with salvage level 5 gives you 25% chance per salvager. Salvager 2's ((7%)) with salvage level 5 give you 35% chance per salvager.
The way it is written makes a lot of people think it's 30% for T1 and 32% for salvager 2's at salvage level 5 which is not the case.
I hope this helps with the worst written and 2nd worst written discriptions in game.
I have tested the salvagers with ease as the numbers are finite in game.
The tactical shield manipulation is harder to prove due to percentage based chances on levels 1-4. Any help will be welcome.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ireland VonVicious After reading a ton of threads about tactical shield manipulation and how it works or doesn't work I'm going to try and set it straight here and now.
Maybe you should test it firstà
Quote: [TSM] is doing exactly what it should do. Each level increases your chance of having shield leakage by 5% per shot against your ship.
No. This is wrong in almost every single way.
What it does is reduce the threshold behold which you start to experience bleedthrough. This threshold starts out at 25% and is reduced by 5% for each level of TSM. At TSM IV, you only experience bleedthrough if your shield is at <5%; at TSM V, you never experience it at all.
This has been proven over and over (and over (and over (à))) again. TSM V has also been proven to make your tank worse than TSM IV, and not for the reason you describe.
Quote: The tactical shield manipulation is harder to prove due to percentage based chances on levels 1-4. Any help will be welcome.
Here's an easy test. Find someone who has TSM IV (should be easy ù that's how far everyone trains it to get T2 hardeners), and shoot at them for an hour or so with many rapid-fire weapons (or drones, if you're cheap). Have them use a shield booster, or remote rep them to constantly keep that shield in the 5û25% region. After the hour has passed, note how much armour damage they have suffered.
It will be zero, because neither your nor the game's description of the skill is accurate.
Quote: The way it is written makes a lot of people think it's 30% for T1 and 32% for salvager 2's at salvage level 5 which is not the case.
Tbh, I've never heard anyone think it worked like that, but then again, I haven't talked to anyone who came in after T2 salvagers were introduced. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ireland VonVicious
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ireland VonVicious on 14/11/2010 02:28:58 I'll test it further. I'm trying to get hard numbers on if the leakage is on top of the shield damage / duplicate and which resist are taken into account. I'm guessing armor.
If it is as broken as people suggest maybe the way I posted is how they could fix it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:32:00 -
[4]
It's not really broken ù it just doesn't work the way the description says. The way it works is fine, as long as people are made aware of what it actually does and can make choices on whether the feel the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ireland VonVicious
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:37:00 -
[5]
I'll adjust for the info your providing. Seems that it is in addition too damage from the bleed and that it has a lot of old threads from before the update making this extra tough.
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bushwacka
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Posted - 2010.11.16 12:00:00 -
[6]
about the salvagers: only train up for T2 if you're a) a dedicated ninja b) salvaging sleepers all the time c) don't know what else you should train right now and learning skills are maxed
otherwise, don't bother, leave it at lvl4 and just slap on some salvage tackles.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.11.17 04:13:00 -
[7]
Why did you make this thread? You did a bunch of reading, came to the (terribly, must-be-trolling) wrong conclusion and decided that everyone needed to be told about it? Why not post in the big thread? Who was asking you to post this? Perhaps most importantly, how in the world did you get it so very wrong? As a matter of fact what the skill does hasn't really been an issue for some time, the debate was if it was beneficial or harmful.
I looked at all the rest of your posts and it doesn't look like (in my opinion) you are an alt made just to troll, so I will try to explain in simple terms what it does.
On a player with TSM (that is short for tactical shield manipulation) level 0, there is a chance that when that player's ship receives damage, and their shields are below 25%, that some of that damage may bleed through to the ships armor.
Bleed through is not extra damage, it is a portion of the raw damage that instead of being applied to the shield (with the shield's resists) it is applied to the armor (with the armor's resists).
As the level of TSM increases, the window of shield health where a bleed through may occur decreases (by 5% a level, until at level 5 a bleed through will not occur). For example: A player with TSM level 2 can only have damage bleed through when his ship's shields are below 15% (25% - (5% * 2) = 15%). A player with TSM level 3 can only have damage bleed through when his ship's shields are below 10% (25% - (5% * 3) = 10%). And so on, until you get to level 5 (25% - (5% * 5) = 0%).
* the more you know *
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