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Takseen	Posted - 2010.11.19 18:25:00 - [301] Originally by: Billy Kidd I'm extrapolating, not representing. As of 15:54 11/19/10 the Suon Constellation has had 102,032 NPCs killed in the last 24 hours. Assuming that 95% of those NPCs killed are from missions, that it takes 1 hour to do a mission that involves 50 NPCs, and that mission-runners run missions 6 hours a day, then there are about 320 mission-runners in the Suon Constellation. If an incursion disrupts the Suon Constellation, then all 320 people will be affected. If as few as 20% of those people decide to complain about this publicly and start new threads on the forums, then there will be about 60 new threads complaining about Incursion disruptions on the forums. That, at least to me, would be a decently sized ****storm If you like doing regular missions with reduced resists, reduced damage, and reduced NPC bounties, you are more than welcome to take off 25% of your weapons, reconfigure your hardeners so you have 10% less resistances, and take timed breaks between missions so that your overall income from NPC bounties is halved (these are disruptions I got from the test server the other day from the Qermi Incursion). I don't think the majority of mission-runners would enjoy those disruptions the same way you do though. As for the wormhole part, if I personally were forced into a choice between sleepers and Sansha I would rather visit a wormhole since those NPCs drop salvage and loot, and the Sansha don't give anything unless I'm in the winning fleet. Fair point about the wormholes at least, but remember that there's lots of sites that can be done by even a 2-5 ship group, that's not too hard to put together unless you're a complete loner. Your mission runner numbers are pure speculation, and as such its pointless. You're clearly not in favour of the changes, why not leave it at that rather than guessing how many people are on your side? Your testing on the Incursion penalties seems to be in error. The damage reduction should only be 10%, to tie in with the 10% reduction in resistances. You're also misunderstanding the resistance penalties. A typical anti-Serpentis Dominix might have 84% thermal and kinetic resists. With Sansha penalties, it'd only have 83% resists. Come on, you think anyone will even notice this? Level 4 missions are just not that difficult. The bounty penalties will get noticed, but that's only a small part of mission rewards. Maybe I'll just go back to salvaging/looting more instead of blitzing.
Billy Kidd	Posted - 2010.11.19 20:14:00 - [302] Originally by: Takseen Fair point about the wormholes at least, but remember that there's lots of sites that can be done by even a 2-5 ship group, that's not too hard to put together unless you're a complete loner. Your mission runner numbers are pure speculation, and as such its pointless. You're clearly not in favour of the changes, why not leave it at that rather than guessing how many people are on your side? Your testing on the Incursion penalties seems to be in error. The damage reduction should only be 10%, to tie in with the 10% reduction in resistances. You're also misunderstanding the resistance penalties. A typical anti-Serpentis Dominix might have 84% thermal and kinetic resists. With Sansha penalties, it'd only have 83% resists. Come on, you think anyone will even notice this? Level 4 missions are just not that difficult. The bounty penalties will get noticed, but that's only a small part of mission rewards. Maybe I'll just go back to salvaging/looting more instead of blitzing. Yes, the number of mission-runners is pure speculation, but the number of pirate ships killed in each system is a publicly available statistic. It's from that number, plus the other available statistics that I'm speculating on how many mission-runners there are. And my hunch is that there are a lot of mission-runners in certain constellations. I know the testing numbers don't match up, but unfortunately, I don't know why. These are numbers I found by going on the test server, writing down how much damage I do and what my resistances are, then jumping into a disrupted system (Zorrabed I think) and doing the same. I tested the damage by shooting a can. Maybe the disruption varies by system. And you may be right about the disruptions, since if people don't notice the inconveniences, then they won't be upset. My point is that the disruptions are meant to inconvenience people, and if they are successful enough to get people to notice them, then people will be upset. I do believe that people get upset when they are inconvenienced. Also, I'm not personally going to be affected by the disruptions so I'm not against or in favor of them on that basis. I am concerned, though, that the disruptions have the potential to do a lot more harm than good to the game, so on the basis of that cost/benefit ratio I am opposed to the disruptions.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.19 21:34:00 - [303] Quote: Also, I'm not personally going to be affected by the disruptions so I'm not against or in favor of them on that basis. I am concerned, though, that the disruptions have the potential to do a lot more harm than good to the game, so on the basis of that cost/benefit ratio I am opposed to the disruptions. The only ones who have something to fear are: - mindless drones, possibly underskilled macro missioneers. Good riddance. - mining botters. Good riddance. Removing them off the game is vastly better for the good of the game than inconveniencing some soloers injecting constant minerals and money in game. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Billy Kidd	Posted - 2010.11.19 23:12:00 - [304] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Also, I'm not personally going to be affected by the disruptions so I'm not against or in favor of them on that basis. I am concerned, though, that the disruptions have the potential to do a lot more harm than good to the game, so on the basis of that cost/benefit ratio I am opposed to the disruptions. The only ones who have something to fear are: - mindless drones, possibly underskilled macro missioneers. Good riddance. - mining botters. Good riddance. Removing them off the game is vastly better for the good of the game than inconveniencing some soloers injecting constant minerals and money in game. Okay, cool. So I take it you think most people in a disrupted, high-population, high-sec constellation aren't going to care about the disruptions, right?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.20 00:11:00 - [305] Originally by: Billy Kidd Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Also, I'm not personally going to be affected by the disruptions so I'm not against or in favor of them on that basis. I am concerned, though, that the disruptions have the potential to do a lot more harm than good to the game, so on the basis of that cost/benefit ratio I am opposed to the disruptions. The only ones who have something to fear are: - mindless drones, possibly underskilled macro missioneers. Good riddance. - mining botters. Good riddance. Removing them off the game is vastly better for the good of the game than inconveniencing some soloers injecting constant minerals and money in game. Okay, cool. So I take it you think most people in a disrupted, high-population, high-sec constellation aren't going to care about the disruptions, right? I think most will adapt, some will whine but not quit, some will quit and not whine. IE same as usual, same as L5 nerf, same as previous L4 nerf, same as nano nerf, same as titans nerf... ... and EvE prospered and became better none the less. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Raze Razor	Posted - 2010.11.20 02:11:00 - [306] Edited by: Raze Razor on 20/11/2010 02:13:29 Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 18/11/2010 09:27:46 Kidd.. The only people that might have a legitament arguement to feeling cheated are the Cheaters that aren't monitoring their alts. And having an Incursion drop onto a system when such is occuring, results in lose of say.. a hulk.. or maybe a raven. Because if a human mind is there to take the 10-90 seconds to move a couple of systems to continue doing whatever it is they are doing.. the arguement starts to get a quite a bit more mute. 10 to 90 sec? That is way off. Six jumps in a battleship is 6 min at least gate to gate. Add in frequent disconnects and multiple log in failures and its now around 15 min one way. Add the return trip and thats half an hour wasted! And people please stop saying mission runners add nothing to the game. They supply the precious named modules and salvage items to the market.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.11.20 02:44:00 - [307] Originally by: Raze Razor Edited by: Raze Razor on 20/11/2010 02:13:29 Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 18/11/2010 09:27:46 Kidd.. The only people that might have a legitament arguement to feeling cheated are the Cheaters that aren't monitoring their alts. And having an Incursion drop onto a system when such is occuring, results in lose of say.. a hulk.. or maybe a raven. Because if a human mind is there to take the 10-90 seconds to move a couple of systems to continue doing whatever it is they are doing.. the arguement starts to get a quite a bit more mute. 10 to 90 sec? That is way off. Six jumps in a battleship is 6 min at least gate to gate. Add in frequent disconnects and multiple log in failures and its now around 15 min one way. Add the return trip and thats half an hour wasted! And people please stop saying mission runners add nothing to the game. They supply the precious named modules and salvage items to the market. Troll. Oh yes.. because every system in a constellation is 6+ jumps to the next constellation. Surely not a single system in this game borders another system that is part of another constellation.. Nooooo, 6 jumps always. And everyone disconnects and has multiple log in failures when they jump/move around in highsec. Really? If that is actually the case.. EVE has bigger problems than some self absorbed loners having issues with wh-like effects in sporadic, small portions of K-space. Mission runners contribute.. nothing. They don't burn much minerals, they supplement FAR more minerals via mod reproc than use.. they have massive isk faucets turned on.. and they ***** on the forums at the slightest notion of their Isk/hour being hurt in favor of funner game mechanics. Frankly.. they aren't needed for the betterment of EVE in any way. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Luminos	Posted - 2010.11.20 02:49:00 - [308] I'll hand it to you Billy, I would not have the stamina to keep this up like you. How is it not obvious how much CCP wants to make mission/miner lives difficult? Arguing that these changes 'might' disrupt things is like arguing +85% projectile damage 'might' make 200mm Autocannons overpowered. It's impossible to believe they came up with a set of effects that precisely hit those two professions with basically 0 collateral damage, without intending it. Apparently CCP doesn't like High Sec carebearing. Maybe they don't like the lag 302 missioners in the same constellation creates, maybe they don't like the 1 person per 3 systems population density of null-sec... who knows? They want to annoy carebears into doing something else; "else" is probably getting a Corp, some fleet experience, and staking a claim in nullsec/WH space. But hey, maybe they just want them to GTFO and take their hangers full of Meta3 modules with them.
Billy Kidd	Posted - 2010.11.20 04:16:00 - [309] Edited by: Billy Kidd on 20/11/2010 04:18:46 Originally by: Luminos I'll hand it to you Billy, I would not have the stamina to keep this up like you. How is it not obvious how much CCP wants to make mission/miner lives difficult? Arguing that these changes 'might' disrupt things is like arguing +85% projectile damage 'might' make 200mm Autocannons overpowered. It's impossible to believe they came up with a set of effects that precisely hit those two professions with basically 0 collateral damage, without intending it. Apparently CCP doesn't like High Sec carebearing. Maybe they don't like the lag 302 missioners in the same constellation creates, maybe they don't like the 1 person per 3 systems population density of null-sec... who knows? They want to annoy carebears into doing something else; "else" is probably getting a Corp, some fleet experience, and staking a claim in nullsec/WH space. But hey, maybe they just want them to GTFO and take their hangers full of Meta3 modules with them. Thanks Luminos. You may be right in saying that CCP wants to make mission/miner lives difficult, but if so, I gotta say this is a really roundabout way of doing so. It would be much easier, and much simpler to simply reduce all NPC bounties in the game and reduce the number of rocks in the belts if their goals were to reduce mission-running and mining. I really think CCP thought the disruptions were a good way to make everyone hate the Sansha for taking away the bounties and the mining. One line in the devblog stated specifically that "NPC bounty reductions provides an incentive for players to gather arms, team up, and face the threat." I just don't think many people will react the way CCP wants them to react. Instead I believe many who will be affected will see things exactly the way you do and scream, "Why does CCP want to make my mission-running and mining life difficult!? I'm a paying customer and I didn't do anything to deserve this! blah blah blah..." There has to be a more effective way of encouraging players to socialize, which is what I think they want to do, without making them feel indignant for being told what they can and cannot do.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.11.20 05:59:00 - [310] As for the wormhole part, if I personally were forced into a choice between sleepers and Sansha I would rather visit a wormhole since those NPCs drop salvage and loot, and the Sansha don't give anything unless I'm in the winning fleet. Ya I been doing some wormholes myself of late. After seeing the bad rewards system in place now on Incursions. Wormholes look alot better to me. After all I get to keep what I kill there. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.

Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.11.20 06:08:00 - [311] Originally by: Luminos I'll hand it to you Billy, I would not have the stamina to keep this up like you. How is it not obvious how much CCP wants to make mission/miner lives difficult? Arguing that these changes 'might' disrupt things is like arguing +85% projectile damage 'might' make 200mm Autocannons overpowered. It's impossible to believe they came up with a set of effects that precisely hit those two professions with basically 0 collateral damage, without intending it. Apparently CCP doesn't like High Sec carebearing. Maybe they don't like the lag 302 missioners in the same constellation creates, maybe they don't like the 1 person per 3 systems population density of null-sec... who knows? They want to annoy carebears into doing something else; "else" is probably getting a Corp, some fleet experience, and staking a claim in nullsec/WH space. But hey, maybe they just want them to GTFO and take their hangers full of Meta3 modules with them. I would find it hard to belive that CCP dont like 302 Missioners paying hard cash to mission. Becouse 302 missioners means 302 accounts Luminos. And last time I check every real company in the real world likes paying customers. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Luminos	Posted - 2010.11.20 06:41:00 - [312] As much as they love the 7 month average subscription? Or as much as they love that 70% of their playerbase will never leave their 'home' constellation? I get the idea they're (for better or worse) trying to mold EvE into their vision of a universe simulation, instead of just a daily grind for Emblems of Frost. It's incredibly easy to fall into the High Sec carebear trap. I know I have. I get one of the most profitable passtimes in known space, with zero risk. I have to really screw up to get my ship blown up, much less podded, in High Sec. Just making that jump out to Low Sec increases the risk to you and your ship a hundred times for comparatively little extra reward. And I think that's what CCP wants to get rid of. However, since CCP seems unwilling to remove the influence of CONCORD (somewhat reasonably), the only way they have to adjust the risk/reward ratio is to reduce the reward. Is it a blunt force approach? Yeah. I'm pretty sure Faction Warfare was also an attempt to de-soloize High Sec, but that didn't work out terribly well either due to it's opt-in/opt-out nature. As long as a 0-risk/high-reward option exists, people will gravitate to it. So pick your poison, you can deal with reduced rewards, or eventually CCP may get rid of High Sec as we know it altogether. Which honestly would by my preferred way of doing things. I'd like to see something along the lines of FW participation be the default state for new players. If you don't want to deal with a constant wardec from half of High Sec... fine, go to Low/Nullsec (where you can have a basically constant wardec from all of High Sec ). It achieves much the same goal of adjusting the risk/reward of High Sec, without the percieved arbitrariness of Sansha incursions. And it has the added benefit of getting new players used to the idea of PvP conflict being a real part of everyday life in EvE, instead of an unfortunate side effect of a mislaid autopilot route.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.11.20 07:06:00 - [313] Edited by: Rip Minner on 20/11/2010 07:13:39 Edited by: Rip Minner on 20/11/2010 07:12:43 Originally by: Luminos As much as they love the 7 month average subscription? Or as much as they love that 70% of their playerbase will never leave their 'home' constellation? I get the idea they're (for better or worse) trying to mold EvE into their vision of a universe simulation, instead of just a daily grind for Emblems of Frost. It's incredibly easy to fall into the High Sec carebear trap. I know I have. I get one of the most profitable passtimes in known space, with zero risk. I have to really screw up to get my ship blown up, much less podded, in High Sec. Just making that jump out to Low Sec increases the risk to you and your ship a hundred times for comparatively little extra reward. And I think that's what CCP wants to get rid of. However, since CCP seems unwilling to remove the influence of CONCORD (somewhat reasonably), the only way they have to adjust the risk/reward ratio is to reduce the reward. Is it a blunt force approach? Yeah. I'm pretty sure Faction Warfare was also an attempt to de-soloize High Sec, but that didn't work out terribly well either due to it's opt-in/opt-out nature. As long as a 0-risk/high-reward option exists, people will gravitate to it. So pick your poison, you can deal with reduced rewards, or eventually CCP may get rid of High Sec as we know it altogether. Which honestly would by my preferred way of doing things. I'd like to see something along the lines of FW participation be the default state for new players. If you don't want to deal with a constant wardec from half of High Sec... fine, go to Low/Nullsec (where you can have a basically constant wardec from all of High Sec ). It achieves much the same goal of adjusting the risk/reward of High Sec, without the percieved arbitrariness of Sansha incursions. And it has the added benefit of getting new players used to the idea of PvP conflict being a real part of everyday life in EvE, instead of an unfortunate side effect of a mislaid autopilot route. Well if your right I wish they would to. It would let all of us that dont wish to play that way know now so we can find a differnt game and stop wasting are time and cash here. It would help us all out in the end. Edit: As a side note I use to be part of low sec life when low sec had life. Low sec lost life becouse you could to easly scan down mission runners. If you only have to pvp in the belts or stations or gates. Great bring it on. Thats were my isk I make in high sec go's anyways. I use to beable to make that isk in low sec. Now if I want to make isk anywere but high sec I have to make nice with people I dont like. Ya right. I do that all day long for work. Why the Hell would I pay to do it online after work? Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.20 12:10:00 - [314] Quote: 10 to 90 sec? That is way off. Six jumps in a battleship is 6 min at least gate to gate. Add in frequent disconnects and multiple log in failures and its now around 15 min one way Garbage. You cry for the loss of the optimization of time to the minute but then pick an ISP that seems off the 1990s? I play - every day - on a mobile USB key, one of the worst situations for disconnects - and I get 3-4 discsonnects a day. Quote: NPC bounty reductions provides an incentive for players to gather arms, team up, and face the threat That's exactly a good sentence. CCP - for once - hints at why they do things. It's a timid move as well, because imho Sanshas should be the evil that comes to take people away etc. etc. so their attacks should be REALLY disruptive. If I had been CCP I'd have put an 1 hour timer in missions to warn of incoming attack, then Sanshas would arrive and really assault the constellation, warp scramble people with T2 ships, > BC, > covetor (to spare the newbies). That would be epic. Quote: "Why does CCP want to make my mission-running and mining life difficult!? I'm a paying customer and I didn't do anything to deserve this! blah blah blah..." This sh!t ***es me off so much because it's 15 years I read it in every single fudging MMO forum. Here is my fluffy take about this in another MMO. Notice how identical whines for similar events keep happening: BTW that MMO tanked and very hard. For many reasons but also because dirty pssies kept it hostage of their whines for years. "WHHHHAAAAAAAA EVIL WOLF ATTACKS ME WHEN I DIG MY IMPORTANT STAND STONEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. REMOOOOOVE IT NOW I AM PAAAYYYYYYNGGGG PLAYEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR!!11112232" - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Raze Razor	Posted - 2010.11.20 12:39:00 - [315] Originally by: Umega Originally by: Raze Razor Edited by: Raze Razor on 20/11/2010 02:13:29 Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 18/11/2010 09:27:46 Kidd.. The only people that might have a legitament arguement to feeling cheated are the Cheaters that aren't monitoring their alts. And having an Incursion drop onto a system when such is occuring, results in lose of say.. a hulk.. or maybe a raven. Because if a human mind is there to take the 10-90 seconds to move a couple of systems to continue doing whatever it is they are doing.. the arguement starts to get a quite a bit more mute. 10 to 90 sec? That is way off. Six jumps in a battleship is 6 min at least gate to gate. Add in frequent disconnects and multiple log in failures and its now around 15 min one way. Add the return trip and thats half an hour wasted! And people please stop saying mission runners add nothing to the game. They supply the precious named modules and salvage items to the market. Troll. Oh yes.. because every system in a constellation is 6+ jumps to the next constellation. Surely not a single system in this game borders another system that is part of another constellation.. Nooooo, 6 jumps always. And everyone disconnects and has multiple log in failures when they jump/move around in highsec. Really? If that is actually the case.. EVE has bigger problems than some self absorbed loners having issues with wh-like effects in sporadic, small portions of K-space. Mission runners contribute.. nothing. They don't burn much minerals, they supplement FAR more minerals via mod reproc than use.. they have massive isk faucets turned on.. and they ***** on the forums at the slightest notion of their Isk/hour being hurt in favor of funner game mechanics. Frankly.. they aren't needed for the betterment of EVE in any way. Self absorbed loner? What are you talking about? How is mining not a solo activity when done by yourself? How is trading not solo, or belt ratting or building stuff? What do YOU do in Eve? Fight fleet wars non stop? And by the way people also do missions, mine, and belt rat in groups ALSO. Mission runners provide ship modules to the market that everyone uses at one time or another. Someone mentioned 6 jumps earlier, it is an example and yes many people do have connection issues in this game.
Sandrestal	Posted - 2010.11.20 13:56:00 - [316] The only real problem I see is a bunch of high sec indiviuals actually joining together to kill the Sansha invaders. Maybe Snot Shot and his merry band of thugs may actually be a positive force as Privateers might be the only group to put anti incursion fleets in play. Imagine, victims and pirates arm in arm, fighting for the common good. ;)
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.11.20 14:32:00 - [317] The only people that will whine about it are those unwilling to adapt, these people should not even be playing eve. and they are unwanted rubbish anyway.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.11.20 16:18:00 - [318] Edited by: Rip Minner on 20/11/2010 16:21:00 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/11/2010 12:21:49 Quote: 10 to 90 sec? That is way off. Six jumps in a battleship is 6 min at least gate to gate. Add in frequent disconnects and multiple log in failures and its now around 15 min one way Garbage. You cry for the loss of the optimization of time to the minute but then pick an ISP that seems off the 1990s? I play - every day - on a mobile USB key, one of the worst situations for disconnects - and I get 3-4 discsonnects a day. Quote: NPC bounty reductions provides an incentive for players to gather arms, team up, and face the threat That's exactly a good sentence. CCP - for once - hints at why they do things. It's a timid move as well, because imho Sanshas should be the evil that comes to take people away etc. etc. so their attacks should be REALLY disruptive. If I had been CCP I'd have put an 1 hour timer in missions to warn of incoming attack, then Sanshas would arrive and really assault the constellation, warp scramble people with T2 ships, > BC, > covetor (to spare the newbies). That would be epic. Quote: "Why does CCP want to make my mission-running and mining life difficult!? I'm a paying customer and I didn't do anything to deserve this! blah blah blah..." This sh!t ***es me off so much because it's 15 years I read it in every single fudging MMO forum. Here is my fluffy take about this in another MMO. Notice how identical whines for similar events keep happening (Amon = lead developer): BTW that MMO tanked and very hard. For many reasons but also because dirty pssies kept it hostage of their whines for years. "WHHHHAAAAAAAA EVIL WOLF ATTACKS ME WHEN I DIG MY IMPORTANT STAND STONEEEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH. REMOOOOOVE IT NOW I AM PAAAYYYYYYNGGGG PLAYEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR!!11112232*" This is true I loved that game. But death did not cost you nearly as much as here so I always wondered why they cryed. Man I tryed to collet DP's :) What makes Dragons fly? Nothing but love! What I want is not to change the penalts or make it soloable. I dont care that I have to fleet up for this. All I want is to keep what I kill. All I dislike is the rewards system in place when doing Incursions. I'm just alittle leary that biger fleets of older players will dominat all the sites even the smaller ones. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Duke o'DeliMeats	Posted - 2010.11.20 17:05:00 - [319] What's that, you can run missions in Stain, an entirely Sansha-controlled NPC region? Why I never... Real men mission in 0.0.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.20 17:42:00 - [320] Quote: This is true I loved that game. But death did not cost you nearly as much as here so I always wondered why they cryed. Man I tryed to collet DP's :) Oh, you played Istaria? Who were you if I may ask? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz

Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.11.21 01:00:00 - [321] Edited by: Rip Minner on 21/11/2010 01:05:42 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: This is true I loved that game. But death did not cost you nearly as much as here so I always wondered why they cryed. Man I tryed to collet DP's :) Oh, you played Istaria? Who were you if I may ask? I was best knowen as Balthizar Drako Formaly of Twilight and now of Order. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.21 07:32:00 - [322] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If I had been CCP I'd have put an 1 hour timer in missions to warn of incoming attack, then Sanshas would arrive and really assault the constellation, warp scramble people with T2 ships, > BC, > covetor (to spare the newbies). That would be epic. 1 hour warning? jesus, these are invasions. The warning should be your ship's sensors reporting local space freaking out, maybe some visual effect or something resembling a cyno appearing on overview, and then a horde of Sansha ships making you scramble for the nearest gate/station/safespot/whatever. You know, like an actual invasion. Put a little freakin surprise and danger into highsec. It's not like they're going to hotdrop every belt at once or something, or at least they shouldn't, you should have time to at least run off if you drop what you're doing and you're actually paying a little attention. Buuuut hey, they'll probably evemail everyone to say the Sansha are coming a week in advance...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.11.21 07:45:00 - [323] Originally by: Von Kapiche Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If I had been CCP I'd have put an 1 hour timer in missions to warn of incoming attack, then Sanshas would arrive and really assault the constellation, warp scramble people with T2 ships, > BC, > covetor (to spare the newbies). That would be epic. 1 hour warning? jesus, these are invasions. The warning should be your ship's sensors reporting local space freaking out, maybe some visual effect or something resembling a cyno appearing on overview, and then a horde of Sansha ships making you scramble for the nearest gate/station/safespot/whatever. You know, like an actual invasion. Put a little freakin surprise and danger into highsec. It's not like they're going to hotdrop every belt at once or something, or at least they shouldn't, you should have time to at least run off if you drop what you're doing and you're actually paying a little attention. Buuuut hey, they'll probably evemail everyone to say the Sansha are coming a week in advance... If CCP did that they would have to code a new reply for the agent issuing the mission: "The mission area was invaded by Sansha, I had to flee" with reduced standing penalties. Too much work.
Vis Luxmea	Posted - 2010.11.21 09:28:00 - [324] Originally by: Raze Razor What?? Are you kidding me? If incursion is messing up my missions then good bye eve, SUBSCRIPTION CANCELLED !! God this game just gets worse and worse. I just spent nearly 1 billion on a mission running ship and now they are going to bork it or I have to do 20 jumps to another constellation? What happened to the sandbox model? Can you believe this flamer? lol An obvious new player complaining about a feature that may ruin his little daily missions. Phag.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.21 12:07:00 - [325] Quote: I was best knowen as Balthizar Drako Formaly of Twilight and now of Order. Hey there's still people who recall you over there. Quote: Edit: And yes I will pay a months fee from time to time just to go flying as a Dragon again once more. If they ever fix the lag to something I can put up with. I would probly play it again as my main MMO too I don't know where you connect from, I play from Europe (so I'd be the most disadvantaged) and I have zero lag ATM. I have an idea: they have a free to play option ATM as long as you play human. Could use that to see if your lag is fixed without spending a cent. Quote: 1 hour warning? jesus, these are invasions. The warning should be your ship's sensors reporting local space freaking out, maybe some visual effect or something resembling a cyno appearing on overview, and then a horde of Sansha ships making you scramble for the nearest gate/station/safespot/whatever. You know, like an actual invasion. Put a little freakin surprise and danger into highsec I don't think massive invasions are done in an instant. Also don't bark at me, if it was just for me I'd be fine with no preadvice at all, I was just trying finding a compromise that would not have people rip their vests for one reason or the other. I did play public quests on Warhammer Online and I did play in 0.0 and low sec in EvE, go hint at carebearing at someone else. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Black Dranzer	Posted - 2010.11.21 17:57:00 - [326] The trouble with incursions to me is that they seem to reflect a very poor grasp of human nature on the part of CCP's designers. Here's the thing: Most people don't PvE for the fascinating PvE content, they PvE for the money. Here's what incursions will come down to: Is it more profitable to move, or to do the incursions? If it's more profitable to do the incursions: Great! People will do incursions, and it'll be balanced by whereabouts the players are located and how many there are. What's far more likely though is that it will not be more profitable to do incursions, or at least not reliably. So people will just pack up their golems and their hulks and move a few systems over and continue as usual. So the question is, how risky and expensive incursions are, and how rewarding they are. High risk for low rewards? Well, yes, some players will do that. The same kind of people who take 40 jump courier missions through lowsec for 500k isk for the love of it. But the people interested in money probably aren't going to give a damn. So incursions will basically inconvenience a great number of people (mission runners, ratters, miners) while entertaining a very small group (those who enjoy high risk low reward group PvE). This is not clever game design. -------------------------------------------------- Learning skills are an ultimatum, not a choice.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.11.21 20:00:00 - [327] Quote: This is not clever game design Maybe it's not clever under an utilitaristic point of view but it is on a game flavour point of view. EvE has not become succesful or famous because of L4 missions but because of its fame of ruthless, "unfair" place where people punch each other in a myriad of ways. So, while the immediate profit would suggest giving free lunch to everyone, in the long run it will make EvE just another grinder, just another PvE farm fest. There are much better grinders and PvE farm fests than EvE though, so the game would ultimately tank. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.11.21 21:03:00 - [328] Originally by: Black Dranzer This is not clever game design. I say it is. So there. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.21 21:06:00 - [329] Edited by: Tippia on 21/11/2010 21:07:35 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Black Dranzer This is not clever game design. I say it is. So there. `and even if it wasn't, it still requires incursions to be low-paying/high-risk endeavour for them to be a problem, which isn't quite the case. So, yeah. yyy tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡` you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v y Karath Piki
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.21 21:23:00 - [330] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I don't think massive invasions are done in an instant. Also don't bark at me, if it was just for me I'd be fine with no preadvice at all, I was just trying finding a compromise that would not have people rip their vests for one reason or the other. I did play public quests on Warhammer Online and I did play in 0.0 and low sec in EvE, go hint at carebearing at someone else. They appear from their staging area pretty quick though. Aren't these guys coming from w-space? Wasn't being accusational or confrontational anyway, just enthusiastic for something more. I've read your other posts, I have some idea of what you do :P



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