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Fraud2
Missions Mining and Mayhem Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.11.19 01:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fraud2 on 19/11/2010 01:14:42
EVE Online: let's lag together!
Hello fellow EvE players
Im interested, i can't be the only angry player here - i got bored of the petition arguments with CCP and bieng quoted from thier GM handbook - who else is seriously annoyed at the lag?
I enjoy all PvP; but ever since I started the game many many years ago - the fleet battles were a fn aspect. But now the server simply cannot handle anything over 300, i simply refuse to play something that doesn't work in these situations.
CTA's and 500 are a common sight over main battle grounds now, players have to endure it several times over in one system alone just to hack through sovereignty modules. In the NC i had two choices.. join CTA and lag fleet battles (unplayable)or log - may as well log, i only come on for a few hours to have a laugh like i would any game - to PLAY!
I want to enjoy the game, but put simply, the lag is awful and its starting to frustrate me - i enjoy 0.0 but it simply doesn't cut it any more as the most fun aspect doesn't work properly.
Two questions to the community really;
For those involved in these big alliance fights, why do you join up even though you get powerpoint FPS in most big fights?
Anyone else equally frustrated with the issue?
Looking for thoughts and feelings on the issue really, genuinly considering cancelling my subscription of over 5 years for good.
And yes, you can haz my stuff!
Fraud
MMMS Nulli Secunda
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2010.11.19 01:28:00 -
[2]
First of all i dont have much experience in 0.0 large fleet battles (i was only in few larger battles, and experienced a bit of lag:P ) and i would prolly avoid being in those because of ..the forementioned "lag"... and my comp can barely run eve as it is :P
Imo try to do something else in eve for a change that could be fun (ls small gang pvp/ wh roaming / fw / hs griefing...there are many options)
My opinion is that lag will be fixed when quantum computers are invented :P Coz if system doesnt lag at 1k players it will at 3k, if doesnt lag at 3k players it will at 10k...etc...
And imho super computers to handle that amount of players in system yet have to be invented... So solution for lag simply doesnt exist.
Sorry to hear you dont have fun anymore because of this, but imho it couldnt be helped unfortunately :(
P.S: i hope for i am wrong :P
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Serpent Kamri
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Posted - 2010.11.19 01:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Fraud2 For those involved in these big alliance fights, why do you join up even though you get powerpoint FPS in most big fights?
There are two types of lag:
1. FPS lag, choppy screen, "slideshow". It means your computer isn't powerful enough to visualize everything that is going on on the battlefield. Lower your graphics settings and remove brackets and drones.
2. Server lag, black screen of death, 10 minute module activation. Your screen is running smoothly, but every action takes minutes to complete. Let CCP reinforce the system before the fighting starts, battles of such magnitude rarely happen for the lulz, there is usually a POS or a TCU involved.
In your case, I'd say you have lag number 1 and CCP has nothing to do with it.
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Fraud2
Missions Mining and Mayhem Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.11.19 01:46:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nishachara
Imo try to do something else in eve for a change that could be fun (ls small gang pvp/ wh roaming / fw / hs griefing...there are many options)
Thanks for your input, this is what im sadly going to explore - a shame i have to give up a particular aspect of gameplay!
@ Comment No.2, sadly its not mate i play with several other plays regularly and we are all are in agreement with it bieng (2) - server lag. My computer is more than capable, even with settings at full sadly.
Thanks for your input!
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:18:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 19/11/2010 02:19:42 - - - - - - - - A few weeks ago I had to laugh when some players posted that they were extremely happy when a blobfight didn't end in a node crash for once and module activations only took a little over a minute (both clearly symptoms of server side lag).
Let's face the facts: CCP can't deliver what they promised. Perhaps they can't afford the supercomputers needed to run it smoothly, who knows because their side projects cost a lot more than they envisaged (hence microtransactions and such).
I don't think there's a single game that supports fights with 1,000s of people and run smoothly. Now CCP either has to admit their failure and find some artificial restrictions to the number of players in a system until they get it working by adjusting software, improving hardware and whatsoever - or let the players edure more years of lagfests.
Either way it seems appropriate not to advertise with huge real-time space battles anymore. Perhaps they can make it turn-based?
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Running missions
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:29:00 -
[6]
didnt eve have 1000 player fights and not lag so much before? and lol at butthurt micro transaction BS honestly, the advantage of plex for remap is laughable
Originally by: CCP Adida
Originally by: WMunny Is it cheating for a new player to buy ISK using PLEX?
It's against the EULA and can be actioned by GMs.[/ |
Fraud2
Missions Mining and Mayhem Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:30:00 -
[7]
dangerous game, as it takes away from the primary. It's interesting as to how this will be played however.
EVE may be outstepping its means.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.19 02:52:00 -
[8]
If you take the time to tell ccp before hand that you are planning a fleet battle in area X, those nodes do get reinforced. There have been plenty of times where you could have 1000+ with no lag, you just have to submit the proper paper work. if you decide to escalate a fleet fight arbitrarily then you deserve the lag bomb.
Anyway, stop yer *****in. We have already had 2 server upgrades in the past 2 years, and those werent cheap either. Now if you were there for the 3000+ fleet battle on the super new "experimental" hardware, you would have known that it can handle 2000 now with ease. Just wait till the missile overhaul on fighter bombers and watch teh lag drop even more.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.11.19 03:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Let's face the facts: CCP can't deliver what they promised. Perhaps they can't afford the supercomputers needed to run it smoothly
There's pretty much nothing that could run eve much better than the current cluster. At least with respect to the lag issue. Supercomputers get their speed from parallelism. Eve's issues are single-threaded and tied to maximum clock speed. Without some change in the software architecture it will remain so. But go on, be a bitter vet. Lag free with 700 on field works well enough me.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Vonlutt
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.19 06:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fraud2 Edited by: Fraud2 on 19/11/2010 01:14:42
EVE Online: let's lag together!
And yes, you can haz my stuff!
Contract to this char in game please, thanks. ! |
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Parsee789
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Posted - 2010.11.19 07:12:00 -
[11]
0.0 fighting is just blob after blob. Having 500+ players at one place is quite a lot if you look and compare it to other games. Maybe if you didn't blob so much it wouldn't be a problem.
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Chelone
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.11.19 07:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Chelone on 19/11/2010 07:21:26
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Let's face the facts: CCP can't deliver what they promised.
I put forth the only possible solution years ago, it was ignored.
When fleets reach a certain size, some or all active control must be taken from the regular pilots in the fleet. Having "normal" operations will never work because of the geometric nature of the problem. (1000 pilots * dozens of potential effects per pilot)^2 = node death.
Instead, individual pilots could be assigned or assign themselves roles (damage, EW, support etc.) and perhaps even pick targets, but individual module activations and hits from individual weapons being transmitted to all clients simply have to be taken out of the equation.
It would be a paradigm shift in how fleet combat is done, but I believe it could eventually work quite well, and would completely solve the problem of large fleets.
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.19 08:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 19/11/2010 02:19:42 - - - - - - - - Let's face the facts: CCP can't deliver what they promised. Perhaps they can't afford the supercomputers needed to run it smoothly, who knows because their side projects cost a lot more than they envisaged (hence microtransactions and such).
please be uneducated somewhere else. there was a 1000 vs 1000 fight that was playable not too long ago, but guess what they just kept pushing ships into the system until it was unplayable. and this will continue . its not the servers, its the players that are the problem
Quote: I don't think there's a single game that supports fights with 1,000s of people and run smoothly. Now CCP either has to admit their failure and find some artificial restrictions to the number of players in a system until they get it working by adjusting software, improving hardware and whatsoever - or let the players edure more years of lagfests.
Either way it seems appropriate not to advertise with huge real-time space battles anymore. Perhaps they can make it turn-based?
huge to me is anything over 500 per side, and eve does support that. in any game that is huge, but only in eve people start QQing because they cant put the entire server population in one system.
here is in idea, stop blobing, if you cant get that other 1000 people in system without it crashing or becoming unplayable use them for something constructive like i dont know attack a different system?
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.19 08:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 19/11/2010 08:56:14
Originally by: Chelone Edited by: Chelone on 19/11/2010 07:21:26
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Let's face the facts: CCP can't deliver what they promised.
I put forth the only possible solution years ago, it was ignored.
When fleets reach a certain size, some or all active control must be taken from the regular pilots in the fleet. Having "normal" operations will never work because of the geometric nature of the problem. (1000 pilots * dozens of potential effects per pilot)^2 = node death.
Instead, individual pilots could be assigned or assign themselves roles (damage, EW, support etc.) and perhaps even pick targets, but individual module activations and hits from individual weapons being transmitted to all clients simply have to be taken out of the equation.
It would be a paradigm shift in how fleet combat is done, but I believe it could eventually work quite well, and would completely solve the problem of large fleets.
Absolutely. I suggested this as well. A fleet after a certain size becomes macro management. No individual pilot actions really make any difference to the outcome.
One solution is to spread out combat across several systems. Say you want to attack station x. Station x is being supplied by multiple nodes in other systems. To attack station x you need to have people go out and simultaneously attack those nodes. To defend station x you have to have people go out and defend those nodes. You now have fleets in multiple systems fighting over station x rather in just one.
The other solution is to stop being girls and trying to bring overwhelming odds. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.19 09:34:00 -
[15]
I want to read some more stuff from Team Gridlock and CCP Warlock, pretty please?! New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Br41n
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.11.19 09:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Br41n on 19/11/2010 09:49:10
Originally by: Fraud2 Edited by: Fraud2 on 19/11/2010 01:14:42 And yes, you can haz my stuff!
Gimme some so I can enjoy more lagfests!!
Quote:
Absolutely. I suggested this as well. A fleet after a certain size becomes macro management. No individual pilot actions really make any difference to the outcome.
One solution is to spread out combat across several systems. Say you want to attack station x. Station x is being supplied by multiple nodes in other systems. To attack station x you need to have people go out and simultaneously attack those nodes. To defend station x you have to have people go out and defend those nodes. You now have fleets in multiple systems fighting over station x rather in just one.
Well that won't help either since those systems are probably all on the same node anyway. (try jumping aroun a region where a lagfest is going on ull get traffic control up to 12 jumps out). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.19 10:15:00 -
[17]
Edited by: bitters much on 19/11/2010 10:19:49
Originally by: Fraud2EVE Online: let's lag together!
In the NC i had two choices.. [/quote
To quote some fellow BFF of you after a battle yesterday:
[ 2010.11.18 21:44:47 ] RLCHANCE > to face pl we need to have about 500 people [ 2010.11.18 21:45:08 ] RLCHANCE > only way we win fights is when we make them not want to come [ 2010.11.18 21:45:21 ] Spectre80 > aka lagging system with 1000+ [ 2010.11.18 21:45:29 ] Spectre80 > solution
So stfu and stop flying with ppl who only own/hold space because of lag
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.19 11:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 19/11/2010 11:42:05
Originally by: Hecatonis please be uneducated somewhere else. there was a 1000 vs 1000 fight that was playable not too long ago, but guess what they just kept pushing ships into the system until it was unplayable. and this will continue . its not the servers, its the players that are the problem
Your arguments are false and name calling is uncalled for. If a game allows the whole playerbase to be in one system and even advertises with huge fleet battles where the outcome is determined by mere numbers, it should also support it. It's not the playerbase's fault it it doesn't work. If it doesn't work, it's up to the developers to make it work by any artificial means neccessary. If Ferrari releases a car with 350 km/hr speccs but it falls apart at 100 km/hr it's not the driver's fault.
If you can't support it, don't allow it and don't advertise with it, or find other means to make this happen without lag, for instance like Chelone suggested.
If you're referring the NC fight in the Drone Regions after the second reinforcement ended, no it wasn't playable. Yes the node didn't crash and no, the module activation wasn't delayed for more than 1-2 minutes but that's still not what I'd call smooth gameplay, it's damage limitation, nothing to be proud of - let alone advertise with.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.11.19 12:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona One solution is to spread out combat across several systems. Say you want to attack station x. Station x is being supplied by multiple nodes in other systems. To attack station x you need to have people go out and simultaneously attack those nodes. To defend station x you have to have people go out and defend those nodes. You now have fleets in multiple systems fighting over station x rather in just one.
And I suggested this. So long as something is important enough to attack, it is important enough to defend. If that action takes place at a single location, everyone will be at that location because it is the important moment.
There is no need to attack anything else at that moment, so there is no reason to defend anything else at that moment.
CCP, you can still advertise a battle across five systems as a 1500 person battle. That slight of hand is less erroneous than the current shtick.
Originally by: Infinity Ziona The other solution is to stop being girls and trying to bring overwhelming odds.
Well that's not gonna happen, who ever is involved. Eve history clearly points that out. |
Camdelma
Gallente Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.11.19 12:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling stuff
Nothing to be proud of? 3200 people active in one system and the server not dying a painful death is nothing to be proud of. the last time I played world of warcraft, the largest battles were roughly 200 players, and it was virtually unplayable. this is a game that limits each shard to a few thousand players. Eve had roughly 10% of the entire online population fighting in one system, several thousand more people than any other game could cram into one battle, and it's nothing to be proud of. Yeah, OK.
I was in a ~600 man fight just about twelve hours ago. My computer barely handled it, but we had no major server lag to speak of. I PREFER smaller scale combat, but the fact that you can even get several hundred people into one fight is a fairly major accomplishment compared to most other games, let alone thousands.
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Ervol Libra
Amarr Pinky and the Brain corp
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Posted - 2010.11.19 13:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 19/11/2010 11:42:05
Originally by: Hecatonis please be uneducated somewhere else. there was a 1000 vs 1000 fight that was playable not too long ago, but guess what they just kept pushing ships into the system until it was unplayable. and this will continue . its not the servers, its the players that are the problem
Your arguments are false and name calling is uncalled for. If a game allows the whole playerbase to be in one system and even advertises with huge fleet battles where the outcome is determined by mere numbers, it should also support it. It's not the playerbase's fault it it doesn't work. If it doesn't work, it's up to the developers to make it work by any artificial means neccessary. If Ferrari releases a car with 350 km/hr speccs but it falls apart at 100 km/hr it's not the driver's fault.
If you can't support it, don't allow it and don't advertise with it, or find other means to make this happen without lag, for instance like Chelone suggested.
If you're referring the NC fight in the Drone Regions after the second reinforcement ended, no it wasn't playable. Yes the node didn't crash and no, the module activation wasn't delayed for more than 1-2 minutes but that's still not what I'd call smooth gameplay, it's damage limitation, nothing to be proud of - let alone advertise with.
Yeah well they would have to roll back to pre dominion, during apocrypha 1000v1000 was actually doable with lag but that was constant and module delay was a few seconds only. Now you can only pray your guns will cycle for a change.
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.19 15:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: bitters much Edited by: bitters much on 19/11/2010 10:19:49
Originally by: Fraud2EVE Online: let's lag together!
In the NC i had two choices.. [/quote
To quote some fellow BFF of you after a battle yesterday:
[ 2010.11.18 21:44:47 ] RLCHANCE > to face pl we need to have about 500 people [ 2010.11.18 21:45:08 ] RLCHANCE > only way we win fights is when we make them not want to come [ 2010.11.18 21:45:21 ] Spectre80 > aka lagging system with 1000+ [ 2010.11.18 21:45:29 ] Spectre80 > solution
So stfu and stop flying with ppl who only own/hold space because of lag
yea who cares. i dont play this game to have fun anymore anyways. those days are long past gone. now its only to meet objectives and win fight however it is possible lag or no lag. you can call me bitter or whatever but thats how it is and my enemies can **** off and burn.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2010.11.19 15:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Serpent Kamri There are two types of lag:
1. FPS lag, choppy screen, "slideshow". It means your computer isn't powerful enough to visualize everything that is going on on the battlefield. Lower your graphics settings and remove brackets and drones.
2. Server lag, black screen of death, 10 minute module activation. Your screen is running smoothly, but every action takes minutes to complete. Let CCP reinforce the system before the fighting starts, battles of such magnitude rarely happen for the lulz, there is usually a POS or a TCU involved.
You forgot the third,
3. :CCP: client code lag that produces lag effects through bottlenecks and aggravates or causes PC slowdown and server lag via client and server interactions.
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 19/11/2010 11:42:05
Originally by: Hecatonis please be uneducated somewhere else. there was a 1000 vs 1000 fight that was playable not too long ago, but guess what they just kept pushing ships into the system until it was unplayable. and this will continue . its not the servers, its the players that are the problem
Your arguments are false and name calling is uncalled for. If a game allows the whole playerbase to be in one system and even advertises with huge fleet battles where the outcome is determined by mere numbers, it should also support it. It's not the playerbase's fault it it doesn't work. If it doesn't work, it's up to the developers to make it work by any artificial means neccessary. If Ferrari releases a car with 350 km/hr speccs but it falls apart at 100 km/hr it's not the driver's fault.
If you can't support it, don't allow it and don't advertise with it, or find other means to make this happen without lag, for instance like Chelone suggested.
nowhere has CCP ever said that you can fit every player into one system. they promise huge battles and they deliver. we cant have 500 vs 500 without a problem, no other game on the market lets this happen. and to top it all off we can even have 1000 vs 1000 THAT is epic, but you people want more, more then the system can handle.
so, is it a player base problem, yes! why? because if CCP made a system cap you people would be yelling and abusing that as well. the players make it unplayable because they cant think outside the "more people = win" box
Quote:
If you're referring the NC fight in the Drone Regions after the second reinforcement ended, no it wasn't playable. Yes the node didn't crash and no, the module activation wasn't delayed for more than 1-2 minutes but that's still not what I'd call smooth gameplay, it's damage limitation, nothing to be proud of - let alone advertise with.
it was playable with 2000 in system. if you cannot see an accomplishment there then i cant help you. name one other game that can support this.
if you expected smooth gameplay then you are expecting too much, i want my car to shoot laser beams but i dont get angry at Honda because it doesnt.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:45:00 -
[25]
ITT: some people fail to comprehend that lag is not just CCP's fault. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Chimalpopoca
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:48:00 -
[26]
Since you started this game may years ago, you should remember that lag was worst than it is now. Fleet fights with a few 100 people produced the lag we have with nearly a 1000 today. Short memory ?
I would advise you to leave that alliance who forces you to log off instead of trying to have fun. It's not completely ccp's fault on this one.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Fraud2 And yes, you can haz my stuff!
Fraud
MMMS Nulli Secunda
Yer stuffz please give.
Syn Callibri 21st Eridani Light Horse Commander - Fleet Ops
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona One solution is to spread out combat across several systems. Say you want to attack station x. Station x is being supplied by multiple nodes in other systems. To attack station x you need to have people go out and simultaneously attack those nodes. To defend station x you have to have people go out and defend those nodes. You now have fleets in multiple systems fighting over station x rather in just one.
How would this be done? By your own mechanics you would need to hit multible systems to be effective. Therefor it would shut down the entire attack by wiping out one of the attacking fleets and turtling the node.
Then to attack the system you have to jump into a heavily garrisoned system and clear out just one defence force to resume an attack on the multible protection node where your small fleets are endanger of being over run again. You could mill it to make sure that even a suppior enemy could not bring enough to take the defenders.
Any Ideas to fix that Issue?
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.19 18:09:00 -
[29]
ah, found it finally:
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.11.19 18:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Grimpak ITT: some people fail to comprehend that lag is not just CCP's fault.
The problem here is that CCP created game mechanics that overwhelmingly favor the side with higher numbers. There is nothing in sov warfare that could be better accomplished by a smaller force.
To my knowledge CCP does not have any definite plans to fix this. At least nothing beyond some nebulous talk. ...
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