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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:14:00 -
[1]
Anyone who said: "you can have fun PvP from day 1" just lie to get easy kills!
Without a minimum of 5 mil SP you are just a target without any changs at all.
With 5 to 10 mil SP you might have a realy REALY lucky day and survive, but still no real changs.
With 10 to 20 mil SP you might get some KM but still your changs to die is twice as high as to kill someone.
With 20+ mil SP you can finaly compet IF you are trained for fighting. Traders, Miners, Producers are still just FREE KILLS! They can be counted as 1-5 mil SP chars when it comes to PvP.
So yes, I saw what all you "PvP can be fun even with low SP" cryer do. Lie to Rookies (Noobs) to get easy kills!
@Noobs, NO, there is no way to do PvP without 20+ mil SP! Or said like this: YOU NEED ONE YEAR TO BE ABLE TO PVP!
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 23/11/2010 02:16:34 obvious troll is obvious
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik obvious troll is obvious
Green doesn't make your words more important.
Prove: DEVBLOGwar is the engine that drives the universe Figure 2.
NEVER ever try to PvP without a minimum of 20 mil SP or you'll just die!
Numbers don't lie, players like Antihrist do!
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mmmPork
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:23:00 -
[4]
Edited by: mmmPork on 23/11/2010 02:23:00 Prove is not a noun.
Prove is a verb.
You are, by extension, ret**ded.
Edit: Added a naughty word.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mmmPork Edited by: mmmPork on 23/11/2010 02:23:00 Prove is not a noun.
Prove is a verb.
And? Who cares?
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mmmPork
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:28:00 -
[6]
Anybody with a usable brain on their shoulders.
You are raping my language, stop.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 23/11/2010 02:33:13 edit: green text is because it's much more relaxing to read on dark background. Not to attract attention.
----- Instant Recall I Analytical Mind I Learning I Instant Recall II Analytical Mind II Learning II Instant Recall III Analytical Mind III Learning III Instant Recall IV Eidetic Memory I Eidetic Memory II Eidetic Memory III Analytical Mind IV Logic I Logic II Logic III Learning IV Iron Will I Iron Will II Iron Will III Iron Will IV Spatial Awareness I Spatial Awareness II Spatial Awareness III Spatial Awareness IV Empathy I Focus I Focus II Focus III Clarity I Clarity II Clarity III Minmatar Frigate I Minmatar Frigate II Minmatar Frigate III Minmatar Frigate IV Minmatar Frigate V Engineering IV Engineering V Mechanic III Mechanic IV Mechanic V Assault Ships I Energy Systems Operation I Energy Systems Operation II Energy Systems Operation III Energy Systems Operation IV Energy Systems Operation V Energy Management I Energy Management II Energy Management III Energy Management IV Energy Grid Upgrades I Energy Grid Upgrades II Energy Grid Upgrades III Energy Grid Upgrades IV Electronics IV Electronics V Electronics Upgrades I Electronics Upgrades II Electronics Upgrades III Electronics Upgrades IV Electronics Upgrades V Weapon Upgrades I Weapon Upgrades II Weapon Upgrades III Weapon Upgrades IV Long Range Targeting I Long Range Targeting II Long Range Targeting III Long Range Targeting IV Targeting I Targeting II Targeting III Targeting IV Signature Analysis I Signature Analysis II Signature Analysis III Signature Analysis IV Targeting V Multitasking I Spaceship Command IV Navigation IV Evasive Maneuvering I Evasive Maneuvering II Evasive Maneuvering III Warp Drive Operation I Warp Drive Operation II Warp Drive Operation III Hull Upgrades I Hull Upgrades II Hull Upgrades III Hull Upgrades IV Shield Management I Shield Management II Shield Management III Shield Management IV Repair Systems I Repair Systems II Repair Systems III Repair Systems IV Gunnery III Gunnery IV Gunnery V Rapid Firing I Rapid Firing II Rapid Firing III Rapid Firing IV Sharpshooter I Sharpshooter II Sharpshooter III Motion Prediction I Motion Prediction II Motion Prediction III Motion Prediction IV Small Projectile Turret I Small Projectile Turret II Small Projectile Turret III Small Projectile Turret IV Trajectory Analysis I Trajectory Analysis II Trajectory Analysis III Trajectory Analysis IV Small Projectile Turret V Small Autocannon Specialization I Small Autocannon Specialization II Small Autocannon Specialization III Small Autocannon Specialization IV Propulsion Jamming I Propulsion Jamming II Propulsion Jamming III Propulsion Jamming IV Assault Ships II Assault Ships III Assault Ships IV -----
Just an example^^
Training plan for Minmatar Assault Ships(on level 4) created on a new character (recommended certificates - so you can actually fit the ship - and learning skills calculated). Total SP after training: 4,875,369 Your point?
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Zitus
NON PROPERO
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:32:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zitus on 23/11/2010 02:34:08 Confirming that OP has issues
You are maybe 15% correct. I would not honestly say that a 5 mil sp character has much chance against a 20 mil sp toon. Good job, you discerned that more sp = better stats.
You are 80% incorrect. You don't simply get better by training skills. It is crucial that new players that want to PVP go get their ass handed to them to learn what works and what doesn't. The game looks like spreadsheets online, but it hardly takes an Excel master to play it. A losing experience is better than a winning one. You almost always learn something when you lose. If you are afraid that you can't afford losing, then you're either flying ships that are too expensive or you simply lack the sack to keep at this game.
You are 5% unlucky. Yeah, there will be plenty of times where you lose, and the losing times will always eclipse the wins when you are truly new to the game. That is why its so important to find a bunch of people who are not ******ed. You need to find good wing mates to teach you how to do things. Not every lesson must be learned through loss.
A player's success is directly based on how willing they are to fight, and how willing they are to seek help and advice. The skill points are just a multiplier. ------------------ I'm not sure if my eyes are actually bleeding, or if it's merely my brain bleeding out through my eye sockets, but either way, it hurts to read what you just wrote |
Mavrk
Minmatar TOP GUHN
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Mavrk on 23/11/2010 02:46:29
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
Prove: DEVBLOGwar is the engine that drives the universe Figure 2.
Lets examine this graph in a way other than "OOH PRETTY COLURS!"
The Title: Total Number of Pilots that Lose Ships vs. Total Number of Pilots that Score the Final Kill in Null Security Space
Lets make a Parenthetical: ((Total Number of Pilots that Lose Ships) vs. (Total Number of Pilots that Score the Final Kill)) in Null Security Space
So lets examine the first part. Total Number of Pilots that Lose Ships. Looks like the most ships lost in null are those that belong to 10 to 20 mil sp pilots, with 20-30 being a close second.
Total Number of Pilots that Score the Final Kill looks like 50-75 mil sp characters get the most kills. Odd
OH HEY! LOOK AT THIS HERE! "IN NULL SECURITY SPACE" 1) As far as I know, the amount of new characters that actually take part in Null Warfare are scant, 2) Hundreds of Cyno Alts die every week in unfit frigates. Cyno Alts are not often any higher than 2-3mil sp. 3) Most fights in null are Cap fights, hence the 50-70mil sp getting the most kills. They are the cap / supercap pilots.
Those three factors REALLY bloat that figure. To use this graph as any kind of representation of genuine new player PVP to support your argument is feeble at best.
TL;DR: Troll post is meh. 2/10 for my response. --- I'm not trying to be a turd on purpose. I'm just telling you how you are wrong.
Ok, yeah, its on purpose. |
Perfection Tau
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:45:00 -
[10]
QEN data just says "~20mil SP coincides with a point where many pilots learn to fail a bit less than they failed before" it doesn't have anything to do directly with SP amount. |
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Kireiina
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:47:00 -
[11]
It's hard to get much combat experience in a frigate or T1 cruiser other than "Wow, that was over fast".
(and a skill plan for assault frigates? who flies those? Make a skill plan for HACs plus all the support skills you need.)
But that's just the way it is with old MMO's. Especially ones where there is cumulative power growth over time (eg. SP) with no reset (Gear based MMOs).
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:48:00 -
[12]
Profe ?
Let's just be clear, can a day 1 pilot beat a 1 yr pilot? if the 1 yr is afk. Tell me a game where that is the case however? WoW? Guild Wars? Star Trek? War?
Can a day 1 pilot contribute in a meaningful way? Absolutely! They can do secondary tackle, they can even be bait and be paid for it.
I was doing pvp very shortly after joining eve, with about 5-6 m sp, with another 5-6 m sp toon, we were having a blast. Had we known more we might have won, the issue wasn't our sp, it was the fact we didn't know what we were doing. We shot Kinetic vs Gallente T2 hulls, we fired explosive at Amarr T2 hulls... had we been a little wiser, we'd have won.
Please Jojo, make your point, or move on.
Best, Apollo =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:50:00 -
[13]
Profe ?
Let's just be clear, can a day 1 pilot beat a 1 yr pilot? if the 1 yr is afk. Tell me a game where that is the case however? WoW? Guild Wars? Star Trek? War?
Can a day 1 pilot contribute in a meaningful way? Absolutely! They can do secondary tackle, they can even be bait and be paid for it.
I was doing pvp very shortly after joining eve, with about 5-6 m sp, with another 5-6 m sp toon, we were having a blast. Had we known more we might have won, the issue wasn't our sp, it was the fact we didn't know what we were doing. We shot Kinetic vs Gallente T2 hulls, we fired explosive at Amarr T2 hulls... had we been a little wiser, we'd have won.
Please Jojo, make your point, or move on.
Best, Apollo =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.23 02:57:00 -
[14]
You know what they say about statistics? 'Don't trust one, you didn't fake yourself'
To give you some examples: - in 0.0 you usually use a scout-alt to avoid getting podded with your main (how much SP does the scout alt have/need?) - in 0.0 you use cyno-alts for moving around with your main, sitting in a capital (how much SP does the cyno-alt have/need?) - in 0.0 you use tacklers in small, fast, cheap ships and usually noobs get this jobs as their entrance to 0.0 and die a lot doing it (how much SP does a noob have/need for this?)
And logic implies that you won't kill something else with a noob-ship in most of the cases.. so to score a kill you will need some experience on how to do it (read: what works and what doesnt - you loose a lot during that time) and some gear to back you up. On average it obviously takes 5M SP until you're 'ready' for pvp (to recover from your losses and to actually be able to deal some damage). Now guess how long it takes to train those? I think I made 10M SP in my first year.. now it averages out around 15M SP/year. New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.11.23 03:30:00 -
[15]
Checkout this old tidbit - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Dominion |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.23 03:57:00 -
[16]
IIRC
If you could fit a mwd, and either a distruptor or a scram you were pvp ready. Yeah sure you are prolly going to die, but you can still get on a few km before you die.
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Misic1891
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.23 04:23:00 -
[17]
Well, I wouldn't consider myself a pro, but I have had tons of fun pvping since almost day one of playing eve. Here's a link to my eve-kill. Not perfect stats, but for someone under 20 mil sp, I'd say it shows that it is very viable and fun, so uh htfu? http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=520298
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.11.23 04:30:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Aiwha on 23/11/2010 04:31:26 I have 19 million SP, I have 116 kills, 38 losses, and 97% efficiency with 69 BILLION isk in ship kills.
Half of that was when I had less than 10 million SP. I started pvping at 6 million.
OP r trolling or dum.
Gullible
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.23 04:45:00 -
[19]
Postin' in a troll thread, and in case I'm not...
Originally by: Epic Rift This QEN has already generated some controversy regarding the comparison of skill points to PVP deaths and killing blows. The report itself draws the conclusion, ôthese numbers would suggest that it would take the average player around 2 years in order to become competitive in null security space, but that once they have reached that level they are fully competitive with other players.ö To clarify: this chart and analysis refer specifically to nullsec. CCP gave us no data regarding low and high security space, with fewer capital and (possibly) tech II ships. Also note that it charts killing blows, which will statistically favor larger (higher-DPS) ships. Newer pilots still can play significant roles as tacklers, EWAR specialists, and in other assignments that donÆt necessarily involve putting out as much destruction as possible in as short a time as possible. In other words, they contribute without dealing the final blow. Readers shouldnÆt conclude that this means that players with less than two years of experience add no value to nullsec PVP, much less EVE PVP overall.
Taken from Epic Rift, read more from the same article HERE.
Basically he said it better than I could. This was unfairly weighted towards high skilled PVP players in 0.0 space, so of course it reflected that. I would also bet that any data like this would reflect high skilled players doing more pvp, why? Because new players are scared to get into it *cough*you*cough*.
Does this mean they can't be competitive in 0.0 pvp? Of course not. One guy has already posted a HAC skill plan. I've seen plenty of interceptor and EWAR plans posted during my time here. A player with below 5mil SP can contribute a LOT towards a gang. A player with 10mil SP could contribute even more! and no, your chance of dieing isn't twice your chance of killing someone. Your chance of dieing, in 0.0, is twice your chance of getting a killing blow, in 0.0. See the correction there? That doesn't mean you didn't contribute towards the kill, or provide logi that kept one of those 20+mil SP pilots alive long enough to get the kill.
Anyway, successful troll is successful I guess, he got me to post...
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.23 04:47:00 -
[20]
My last war I was flying a covert ops blaster proteus. I always had a laugh to myself when I got away with another attack, knowing how vulnerable I was to a getting tackled by a newbie in a frig. Med blasters, no drones.
Imagine that, a 30 minute newbie in a 25k isk ship with about 7k isk of modules (AB and a scrambler) leading to the death of a 7 year old pilot in a close to billion isk ship. Fortunately fear got the better of people allowing me to slink away every attack.
Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.11.23 06:20:00 -
[21]
train to fit point train to fly rifter join fleet camp gate point the industrial that warped in without a scout ???? Profit?
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mmmPork
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Posted - 2010.11.23 06:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Herping yourDerp train to fit point train to fly rifter join fleet camp gate point the industrial that warped in without a scout ???? Profit?
I like you.
Friends?
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Bruce Carraway
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Posted - 2010.11.23 07:00:00 -
[23]
i agree with op, you should not pvp until you have greater than 100m sp ( all of it in pvp stills).
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utzutz 2
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Posted - 2010.11.23 07:08:00 -
[24]
It really takes forever to skill a tackler...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.23 07:26:00 -
[25]
With all the limits of the OP the replies of are really hilarious.
You can fly suicide bait
You can fly an AF (not an HAC) or a EWAR frigate with only 5 million SP
You can scram and die in the process
You can fly suicide cyno alt
It all sum up to "you can die gloriously so we can get more kills"
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.11.23 08:20:00 -
[26]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits. The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.23 09:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Venkul Mul With all the limits of the OP the replies of are really hilarious.
You can fly suicide bait
You can fly an AF (not an HAC) or a EWAR frigate with only 5 million SP
You can scram and die in the process
You can fly suicide cyno alt
It all sum up to "you can die gloriously so we can get more kills"
Or you could do what I did when I first started out, start flying auto cannon thrasher in what was then cva provi popping red frigs and other destroyers. I started at 4-5mil in a t2 auto cannon or arty thrasher and I would only lose them to blobs on gates or in bubbles that I warped too
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Kraschyn Thek'athor
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Posted - 2010.11.23 09:09:00 -
[28]
OP is clueless. 99% of all warfare is gang/fleet warfare.
With 5 Million SP you can fly a BC and a BS, which are arround the most used Gang/Fleet ships except Interceptor, Armor HAC and Logisitc. From that point, it depends more on your FC then on your own abilities. The killmails depend more on the bravery/stupidity of your opponents.
A Gang of 20x 5 Million SP BC Pilots will obliterate a Gang of 5x 20 Million SP Points with equal competent FCs, as long as all Pilots had an PvP Introduction from their corp. Most 5 Million SP Pilots die because Corps are too lazy to offer good grunt courses ;)
Chars with 2 Million SP (so learning skills and a couple of other) flying suicide T1 tacklefrigs will die often. But give me 20x of them and I do your fleet more harm then 2x 20 Million SP char do harm to my fleet. And I guess, I alone could reimburse 100x suicide tacklefrigs without damaging my wallet in any way ;)
PvP Training is the key to sucessful PvP. Skillpoints just broaden the options.
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Miht Virtaq
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.23 09:25:00 -
[29]
Skill and strategy > raw SP in my honest opinion.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.23 10:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson
NEVER ever try to PvP without a minimum of 20 mil SP or you'll just die!
Numbers don't lie, players like Antihrist do!
****ing L-O-L http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8088892 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8064044 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8010572
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