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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.28 13:53:00 -
[781]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: j0sephine hopefully not in a way that'll make Megathron pilots look at their boat and go "gee, well our ship does suck but gods it could be worse, just look at the Raven" -.o;
I hope thats not what happens to Amarr ships/pilots if/when MP's get changed!
no since megabeams and tachs are really good too, compared to 425ers and 1400ers Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.28 13:54:00 -
[782]
Originally by: Lallante A decent raven setup can outdamage a geddon with mps AT ALMOST EVERY RANGE. Why no cry of nerf there?
A change is needed, but if its a 'nerf' itll be ridiculous.
nice try, but we had this before in this thread
1st: Gedddons do more damage
2nd: Missles will get a nerf, we all know that Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.28 13:55:00 -
[783]
and guys, try to make better suggestions how the guns should be balanced then me Wanna fly with me?
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.01.28 14:07:00 -
[784]
please let this **** die
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.28 15:55:00 -
[785]
Originally by: Arud please let this **** die
no sorry
For Lallante, my Idea how the Missles could be balanced
Give them a Flight time damage mod, basicly thy do different damage depending on how long thy were flying
Some Paint Shop for this:
Missles could work like this
the damage needs to be checked out, basicly missled do extra nice damage on long ranges,
Torps are okish short/midrange weapons
for the high damage you need to calculate that Missles have a flight time and defenders can stop lots of missles Wanna fly with me?
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.28 16:19:00 -
[786]
Originally by: j0sephine
And how much of it is due to Raven's good tanking ability, rather than actual damage it's doing..? Am not questioning Raven has a very good combination of damage/survability, but the claim it can so easily outdamage a 'geddon with mega pulses. ^^;;
Erm erm, i never said it can outdamage a geddon with pulses. You don't need to outdamage something to kill it ;0 ________________________________________________________
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.01.28 16:32:00 -
[787]
...or missiles can have a relative speed and size to-hit modifier. That is, the smaller the ship, and the more transverse velocity (to the missile) the target has, the less damage the missile does. In essence, a ship sitting still should get 90-110% damage, while a light missile on BShip does 100-120% and a torp on a fast moving inty would do something close to 5-20% damage (depending on how it hit). Moving from or towards missiles (and get hit) = bad. Would also change the boring static missile damage as well as fix the Raven-Intypwnage.
And back on track again: The true problem here is partly that the "other guns" have much steeper fitting requirements, worse optimal range (that is, th optimal range is not where most ships are shot at, but closer or further away), and/or do less damage.
It is a philosophy thing. What is the philosophy that the races follow? It's not too clear at the moment (any more). Gallente does a lot of damage close - that is a given. But they don't! They do damage close, yes, but not a lot of damage. Minmatar has long range and heavy (if slow) hitting. Yes, they are slow, but their falloff over optimal makes them hard to boost far. Amarr has reliability. That means good tracking, no ammo, and so on. But they also have damage at the moment!
What I think should be done is not simple. Hybrids - damage Projectiles - range Energy - reliability (tracking and ammo)
The guns need to be made less similar. Projectiles need the range not to be dependent on tracking computers. Hybrids the damage to be extremely effective in their optimal window (if you do your damage in the part of the range scale where you are MOST VULNERABLE, i.e. 5km, then you had better do some bloody amazing damage). Lasers... needn't be changed much, really. As a side effect, Gallente ships in general need CPU improvement and a slight powergrid boost - neutron blasters aren't effectively useful at all and not to mention that you absolutely must fit MWD to have a prayer!
Here's another thought: simply comparing guns isn't enough! When it comes to autocannons and blasters, especially blasters considering Gallente are so slow, you just have to have extremely fitting intensive modules to let you survive to do damage. The devs should really stop comparing Neutrons on Megathrons. Neutrons are holy grails - unattainable relics --
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.28 16:35:00 -
[788]
thats why I used Electrons for my suggestion
but we cant make projectiles just long range, thats where thy should be best
but thy need to be ok in shorter range too
every gun needs a range where its the best, so thy can use tactics to stay in that range Wanna fly with me?
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.01.28 17:53:00 -
[789]
But of course. My true meaning was mostly concerning long range guns in that aspect. Short range it would be hybrids for damage, energy for range and autocannons for balance.
I'm of the oppinion that it is un-Gallente to tank a ship, and that Gallente ships should be designed around two concepts: speed and damage. As a result we'd have todays crushing energy requirements (easily the highest in the game if you take base capacitor into account) together which means little to no tanking for optimal use.
In other words, the damage graph would be, at certain points, dominated by hybrids. At the same time the graphs taking capacitor and ammo into account, hybrids would suffer. Pay a lot, get a lot.
Not like it's going to happen considering the devs tendency to either do too small or too specific changes. --
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
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Posted - 2005.01.30 18:15:00 -
[790]
bump
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.01.30 18:36:00 -
[791]
Originally by: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx bump
Not only isn't that allowed, but you're name is extremely long and is stretching the forums. --
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.01.30 19:22:00 -
[792]
well being as its surfaced again i wouldn't mind getting CCP's opinion on this whole debate?
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.01.30 19:25:00 -
[793]
or thy could tell us why thy think Megapulses are ok? Wanna fly with me?
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.01.30 19:31:00 -
[794]
I aint read all the posts, but stop calling nerf this nerf that, lasers are fine, i enjoy using them and they are now my first choice for guns. Why not instead fix rails, blasters, and projectiles? i would like to see this more as these guns are simply and distinctly crap, NOT in comparison to lasers but just simply CRAP full stop. why break summat to fit in, can we just not hang on and request a fix/balance of the overnerfed kit, this will also balance out against the missiles that people are crying about now.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.01.30 19:35:00 -
[795]
"I aint read all the posts, but stop calling nerf this nerf that, lasers are fine, i enjoy using them and they are now my first choice for guns. Why not instead fix rails, blasters, and projectiles? i would like to see this more as these guns are simply and distinctly crap, NOT in comparison to lasers but just simply CRAP full stop. why break summat to fit in, can we just not hang on and request a fix/balance of the overnerfed kit, this will also balance out against the missiles that people are crying about now."
"Why nerfing is good"
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Daakkon
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Posted - 2005.02.03 03:51:00 -
[796]
can we please get an official response from ccp please
www.dark-cartel.com |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.02.03 04:05:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Daakkon can we please get an official response from ccp please
Hahahahaha. No.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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cyberdog
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Posted - 2005.02.03 04:49:00 -
[798]
what i want to know is in real life if you see a better car than yours do you jump out and take pictures of it? Then send the pictures to the manufacturers and whine untill you get the same car. WAR IS UNFAIR THIS IS A WARGAME do you think the american G.I's got out of their tanks in the second world war and started comparing technical data to the german tiger tank NO! I can go on with examples of disparity in war forever but they got on with what they had and won the war with crappy shermans go figure. This is the first and last post i will ever make on these forums, most of you act like a spoilt bunch of children eve is an amazing game within it there is unfairness get used to it life is unfair. This game is unfair how come people who knew about this game b4 me have better stuff than me they found out about it b4 me that is unfair! They can kill me in a fight g.m's can i have the same sp's as them? u get my point. Adapt and destroy people DON'T WHINGE get on with the damn game.
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2005.02.03 04:58:00 -
[799]
Edited by: Nybbas on 03/02/2005 04:58:25 hahahahahahahhaa please tell me you are kidding, cyber so you think its OK for amarr to have way better guns than the other races, because cars in real life are better than other cars? |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.02.03 04:59:00 -
[800]
Originally by: cyberdog what i want to know is in real life if you see a better car than yours do you jump out and take pictures of it? Then send the pictures to the manufacturers and whine untill you get the same car. WAR IS UNFAIR THIS IS A WARGAME do you think the american G.I's got out of their tanks in the second world war and started comparing technical data to the german tiger tank NO! I can go on with examples of disparity in war forever but they got on with what they had and won the war with crappy shermans go figure. This is the first and last post i will ever make on these forums, most of you act like a spoilt bunch of children eve is an amazing game within it there is unfairness get used to it life is unfair. This game is unfair how come people who knew about this game b4 me have better stuff than me they found out about it b4 me that is unfair! They can kill me in a fight g.m's can i have the same sp's as them? u get my point. Adapt and destroy people DON'T WHINGE get on with the damn game.
Commit Seppuku ASAP to regain the honor of your family.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.02.03 06:46:00 -
[801]
Originally by: cyberdog what i want to know is in real life if you see a better car than yours do you jump out and take pictures of it? Then send the pictures to the manufacturers and whine untill you get the same car. WAR IS UNFAIR THIS IS A WARGAME do you think the american G.I's got out of their tanks in the second world war and started comparing technical data to the german tiger tank NO! I can go on with examples of disparity in war forever but they got on with what they had and won the war with crappy shermans go figure. This is the first and last post i will ever make on these forums, most of you act like a spoilt bunch of children eve is an amazing game within it there is unfairness get used to it life is unfair. This game is unfair how come people who knew about this game b4 me have better stuff than me they found out about it b4 me that is unfair! They can kill me in a fight g.m's can i have the same sp's as them? u get my point. Adapt and destroy people DON'T WHINGE get on with the damn game.
Unplug your keyboard
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.02.03 07:36:00 -
[802]
Originally by: cyberdog what i want to know is in real life if you see a better car than yours do you jump out and take pictures of it? Then send the pictures to the manufacturers and whine untill you get the same car. WAR IS UNFAIR THIS IS A WARGAME do you think the american G.I's got out of their tanks in the second world war and started comparing technical data to the german tiger tank NO! I can go on with examples of disparity in war forever but they got on with what they had and won the war with crappy shermans go figure. This is the first and last post i will ever make on these forums, most of you act like a spoilt bunch of children eve is an amazing game within it there is unfairness get used to it life is unfair. This game is unfair how come people who knew about this game b4 me have better stuff than me they found out about it b4 me that is unfair! They can kill me in a fight g.m's can i have the same sp's as them? u get my point. Adapt and destroy people DON'T WHINGE get on with the damn game.
Real life works a bit differently than this game. For instance in real life we aren't a character we pay for to use and life isn't a service rendered for our amusement.
Also, during the second world war, the G.I.s did indeed not compare statistical data for the Tiger tank. They had scientists doing that. Also, there weren't too many Tigers to be worried about. Not that many were produced because they used customized, cutting edge technology, parts. And they were also a pain to repair, because of the same reason. Real life warfare has always been about comparing. But since there's no God (scientifically speaking, so let's not get into a religious discussion) to complain to, there was very little complaining being done. Instead real life humans take the punch and start ripping each others ideas off to get their own weapons and technology up to par with the other sides.
Perhaps you didn't know, but I can't adapt. I can't because the Devs won't let me tweak and upgrade my pretty sub-par hybrid technology. In it's essence the "shut up and adapt" argument is not an argument at all. You simply can't to the latter part of that command, as inevitably some setups will be worse than others due to what weapon platform basis you are using. At the moment, the worst BShip class platform is the Gallentean, and all setups there will be the underdog, entirely dependent on the opponent's incompetence. --
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
CCP Hammer
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Posted - 2005.02.04 12:26:00 -
[803]
Originally by: Daakkon can we please get an official response from ccp please
My official response is that daakkon is a nub
[These opinions are my own and are in no way meant to represent official opinions of CCP]
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Frqctal
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Posted - 2005.02.04 12:29:00 -
[804]
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.02.04 12:43:00 -
[805]
I knew this thread couldn't die. You all know it's the best
This thread + mega pulse 4tw
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.04 13:19:00 -
[806]
Its baaacccc***kk!
I'm starting to feel the need to get a shotgun, cause this threads turned into a zombie.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.02.04 13:21:00 -
[807]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Daakkon can we please get an official response from ccp please
My official response is that daakkon is a nub
[These opinions are my own and are in no way meant to represent official opinions of CCP]
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