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Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.08.25 17:41:00 -
[181] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online."
IMHO this sums it up nicely.
cu |
Lord LazyGhost
Kadavr Black Guard Shadow Cartel
17
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Posted - 2012.08.25 18:35:00 -
[182] - Quote
hows about when the links are activated sig radious goes up a lot. so makes scanning down so much easyer. would allow for booster baiting.
Ie coming in for a fight with a known booster engageing him while having a corpie to scan down and popping hi while the guy is fighting a bait ship lolz could be funz... |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 00:01:00 -
[183] - Quote
so FCing in a command ship will be cool now \o/ |
Stalking Mantis
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
198
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Posted - 2012.08.27 10:21:00 -
[184] - Quote
David Devant wrote:@ Pax Thar: There's nothing unfair about rolling a boosted ship against multiple targets. Check Garmon's vids and say it's unfair. Even against a single target, you die, you whine, and then you get on with it.
@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.
I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all.
Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face.
Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones.
Say it with a straight face.
We fly outgunned, We fly outnumbered. It's what we do. http://www.youtube.com/user/Flyinghotpocket/videos |
Arsedestroyer
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:28:00 -
[185] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face. Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones. Say it with a straight face.
It's quite the same for most of the OGB defenders - either they POS boost in Lowsec to gank solo frigs in their thrashers or never leave highsec like Diesel47. |
Esk Esme
Far From Sober
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 10:09:00 -
[186] - Quote
Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread
to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game
also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
107
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 11:02:00 -
[187] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote:Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
You should consider playing this game and not only smash talk. Scanning is not the problem, the problem for low-sec faction warefare players with boosting alts is that these alts are not in the enemy faction. So even if they just sit at the gate (which they often do) you don't want to kill them because you a) don't want to go pirate, b) are flying small stuff which quickly gets popped by gate guns. I think a boosting ship should be handled like a remote repper. If he is repping or boosting my valid enemy then I am allowed to kill it without any penalty. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
24
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Posted - 2012.08.29 11:14:00 -
[188] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote:Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread
to lazy to scan? No skillz at scaning? To much effort? Omg i got tckled at 38k theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war
Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game
also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is
Thats nice dear, now run along and try not to say anything else stupid. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1958
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 23:16:00 -
[189] - Quote
Esk Esme wrote: Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it
Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields whilst having a 6-link booster actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
It's all a matter of perspective... You know... morons. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 14:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt...
Leadership 5 - 256K SP Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants? |
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Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
24
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Posted - 2012.08.30 14:46:00 -
[191] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote: Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.
Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt... Leadership 5 - 256K SP Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3. How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants?
Its about 4-5 months which isnt particularly long for this game. |
Lili Lu
369
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 17:41:00 -
[192] - Quote
Vytone wrote:Cearain wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Lev Arturis wrote:Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds. Learn to probe. Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online." I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online." Carebear tears, best tears! Actually the whining because you can't cope and hope CCP will change it's plans is coming from your camp. CCP has said for years they wanted to end off-grid boosting. Now that they appear to have found a solution to the coding problem and be getting serious about doing it, all of folks that have come to depend on the Tech III ss-ing booster alt are the ones throwing names around and specious arguments about how others are too "lazy" to create probing alts to try to find boosting alts. And, yes, if the other guy disagrees with my opinion he is ipso facto a carebear.
Small gang roaming and small gangs harrassing larger ones happened in eve before the tech III cruisers were in game. And it will continue after the Tech III boosting alts lose their current mode of operation. Continue to moan about the loss of this unintended mechanic, or adjust. I think you will be able to adjust. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1961
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 22:18:00 -
[193] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so nect to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes.
Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills. You know... morons. |
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 12:57:00 -
[194] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Whar Target wrote:
With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.
Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so next to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes. Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills. Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt. |
Nicaragua
SkREW CREW Local Down
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 13:19:00 -
[195] - Quote
Whar Target wrote: Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.
Well thats just a difference of opininion on what makes something noobish. My personal take on it is that some of the people for OGB are arguing as though it is some kind of elite hardcore tactic and the problem is that everyone else just needs to catch up to their awesome skill level.
The fact is that it is none of those things and the samething can be achieved by any new player who has the appropriate knowledge within a short space of time, and due to the ease of ISK making in noob friendly pursuits like Faction Warfare the the entire thing can very easily be financed with plex from a couple of days FW complex grinding.
As for falcon alts then i can live with that because at least the falcon has to be within a reasonable range of the ships it is assisting which leaves it open to interceptors, long range weapons, sensor damps, ECM etc. |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bora Alis
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 13:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
Pain of OGB defenders is delicious.
/me parking here freight train for tears. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
463
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:25:00 -
[197] - Quote
gang of 5 claymores and 5 vultures anyone?
Whos got dem linkz!?
WHY DUAL X-L ASB! IMPOSSIBRU! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1965
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 22:08:00 -
[198] - Quote
Whar Target wrote:Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.
It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.
It all depends on the definition of a noob. Real beginners may perceive 4-5 months as a big investment for a game they haven't invested much time in yet and will ultimately will be turned off by OGBs since they're not sure if the want to make the investment into an OGB and multiple screens if they don't have that already.
In case they're interested in solo pvp or beginning to do smallscale with a couple of RL friends, they'll end up really annoyed because every single one of them and their dogs have their private OGB alts.
Nonetheless, it's noob friendly for noobs that made the decision to stick around, so mostly the roughly 2 year old noobs and everyone of them feels obliged to get one. Sounds good for CCP, but then again, mandatory OGBs just turn absolutely new subscribers off.
ECM mechanics need to be reworked, but that's another issue. You know... morons. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 05:50:00 -
[199] - Quote
Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. 14 |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 10:00:00 -
[200] - Quote
Many times I get the advantages of offgrid boosting myself. Fastest ship, 13Km scrambler, etc. It's very nice. I don't have any alts (for boosting or anything, in fact) but some mates do, and they use them,
However, I wouldn't mind seeing offgrid boosting removed.
Perhaps it would be enough if offgrid boosting T3 was much LESS effective than active boosting from a Command ship being risked in real engagements?
I see that T3 are expensive and wonderful tools, but I'd rather see Command ships being much better at boosting than them, always. |
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BBQ FTW
The Hatchery Team Liquid
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 23:22:00 -
[201] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. fon for CSM
even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame) |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 02:54:00 -
[202] - Quote
BBQ FTW wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. fon for CSM even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame)
a) I agree with what Fon posted above. b) I am in the 'No off grid boosting' fan club.
Give Commands more tank or evasiveness. Hell give them BS+ ehp and frigate speeds for all I care, but force them to be somewhere on the battlefield. Otherwise it sits in the same low risk - high reward situation it has been for too long.
When I pvp, its usually solo or small gang stuff in BC's and smaller (still raising alt's skills for larger ships). I dislike the inherent idea that just having a player (or lets be honest, an alt account) in a T3 with mwd blasting away out in some safe area makes an entire group of ships buffed, with no way to counter it (scanning down a ship with mwds going non stop is not very feasible) other than doing the same is just not right.
If you want to bring the kind of fantastic buffs that command mods bring, great! But do it on the battlefield where you are at risk, and a viable target for the other team. With high tank and / or support, as they are trying to blast you down, your team is blowing them away 1 by 1 (I do think they need more tank though, to counter the fact that they would need to be on the field, as they will hands down be the primary or secondary target next to ECM ships and Logi's).
Just my take on it. ~Zyella |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
420
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 03:51:00 -
[203] - Quote
+1 vote for nooff-grid boosting. I dislike the idea of an overheated MWD on an Atron being run down from 70km by a Vigilant before it even gets up to speed for a warp-out. Yeah, sure, its a 300M pirate faction cruiser with faction point and webs vs a 380K frigate, with a 800M booster alt for Loki links and a 800M legion alt for uber tank. Arguably, I lost on warp-in as I under-invested in the fight by at least 2.5Bn ISK...but the edge in speed and point range and scan res was blindingly obvious. If you can die to blaster boats at 70km within seconds, something's wrong.
Off-grid boosters stuck in POS shields not only create crazy crap like this, and are totally risk-free, they contribute to less PVP. It doesn't take long for people to finger who compulsively uses boosts to "solo" and who those booster alts are. I now know to totally avoid trying to pick fights in certain systems in FW because the opposition has booster alts, and I am too cheap, lazy and time-harassed to deploy my own alt (who is also not trained for it), to even the score and give me a competitive edge.
There's also a lot of argument about small gang PVP suffering to the Blob, and that off-grid boosters are essential to creating an environment where small gangs can engage blobs. This is bullcrap. Deploy a scout, pick your engagement time and location, and you can deal with a blob easily. If this wasn't the case, EVE Uni would dominate every time they came to FW lowsec because, clearly, we minmatar cannot avoid them and must fight outnumbered. Derp through a gate into a blob, you deserve to be punished, and demanding insane boosts to counter your derp isn't logical, it's just a crutch for crap FCing and poor skill. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
276
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 06:41:00 -
[204] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. Was suggested a while ago that hulls be used to differentiate in such a manner when they are getting overhauled anyway. T3, never being better than T2 (ref: CCP design goals), could be limited to squad boosting, T2 could be limited to wing/squad boosting with capitals being the only hulls with enough juice to transmit across an entire fleet. Problem is that for min/max'ing a fleets potential it would have to use up to 5-10% boosters which is a tough sell to people who have grown accustomed to having the "One Ship to Boost them All" .. that is the biggest hurdle as I see it.
Alternative (within framework of On-Grid, 'cause it WILL happen) is to simply add a broadcast power attribute to the relevant hulls/subsystems, T3 are able to cover 100km, T2 can cover 250km and capitals can reach full grid or 500km whichever condition is met first.
BBQ FTW wrote:fon for CSM
even if he wants to exterminate my corpmate irl (ingame) Finally snapped, eh? IRL now being referred to as in-game .. guessing you love the Hi-Definition graphics beyond your front door and would love CCP to upgrade IRL to the same level
PS: Don't mind the people saying you are insane, they are just envious of your clearly superior perception! |
Crosi Wesdo
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
356
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 10:25:00 -
[205] - Quote
I dunno, removing boosts imo will just be a significant buff to alpha fleets. I never pos up my booster as its fit for mobility, i agree that possing them up should make the links non-functional. |
Aracimia Wolfe
The Cursed Navy
105
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 12:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:+1 vote for nooff-grid boosting. I dislike the idea of an overheated MWD on an Atron being run down from 70km by a Vigilant before it even gets up to speed for a warp-out. Yeah, sure, its a 300M pirate faction cruiser with faction point and webs vs a 380K frigate, with a 800M booster alt for Loki links and a 800M legion alt for uber tank. Arguably, I lost on warp-in as I under-invested in the fight by at least 2.5Bn ISK...but the edge in speed and point range and scan res was blindingly obvious. If you can die to blaster boats at 70km within seconds, something's wrong.
Off-grid boosters stuck in POS shields not only create crazy crap like this, and are totally risk-free, they contribute to less PVP. It doesn't take long for people to finger who compulsively uses boosts to "solo" and who those booster alts are. I now know to totally avoid trying to pick fights in certain systems in FW because the opposition has booster alts, and I am too cheap, lazy and time-harassed to deploy my own alt (who is also not trained for it), to even the score and give me a competitive edge.
There's also a lot of argument about small gang PVP suffering to the Blob, and that off-grid boosters are essential to creating an environment where small gangs can engage blobs. This is bullcrap. Deploy a scout, pick your engagement time and location, and you can deal with a blob easily. If this wasn't the case, EVE Uni would dominate every time they came to FW lowsec because, clearly, we minmatar cannot avoid them and must fight outnumbered. Derp through a gate into a blob, you deserve to be punished, and demanding insane boosts to counter your derp isn't logical, it's just a crutch for crap FCing and poor skill.
The Sig, The Rhetoric, you sir are my hero. even if you are Winmatar I like my coffee like I like my men. In a plastic cup http://aracimia.blogspot.co.uk/ |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:05:00 -
[207] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.
CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not. Was suggested a while ago that hulls be used to differentiate in such a manner when they are getting overhauled anyway. T3, never being better than T2 (ref: CCP design goals), could be limited to squad boosting, T2 could be limited to wing/squad boosting with capitals being the only hulls with enough juice to transmit across an entire fleet. Problem is that for min/max'ing a fleets potential it would have to use up to 5-10% boosters which is a tough sell to people who have grown accustomed to having the "One Ship to Boost them All" .. that is the biggest hurdle as I see it. That's right, but the whole point is in having to make trade-offs. At the moment should you start assemling a fixed-number gang of, say, 3-5 ships, you always have to evaluate pros and cons of any particular ship, that's including the boosting one. Are 3 skirmish links really more usefull than increasing your DPS by 25-50% or RR power by 1/3? That's a tough choice. Now it's all entirely different for blobs, they can easily remove one of their 50 Drakes and take a booster instead.
And that's just wrong.
I'd say that this particular thing is one of the most terrible flaws in current EVE mechanics, along with instantenious risk-free hot-dropping. 14 |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1973
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 23:57:00 -
[208] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:
That's right, but the whole point is in having to make trade-offs. At the moment should you start assemling a fixed-number gang of, say, 3-5 ships, you always have to evaluate pros and cons of any particular ship, that's including the boosting one. Are 3 skirmish links really more usefull than increasing your DPS by 25-50% or RR power by 1/3? That's a tough choice. Now it's all entirely different for blobs, they can easily remove one of their 50 Drakes and take a booster instead.
And that's just wrong.
I'd say that this particular thing is one of the most terrible flaws in current EVE mechanics, along with instantenious risk-free hot-dropping.
The problem with OGBs is that there is no trade-off. Want to run a gang of 3-5 ships? The question is not if you lose 25% of damage, the question is how many members bring their OGB alt. They're never dedicated pilots - just effortless alts.
I agree however that a purely range-based mechanic would overly favour blobs once more, but basing any mechanic on fleet size is only good in theory since most fleet coordination takes place OOG and people would easily circumvent that.
Anyway - with CCPs glacial speed, fixing the issues will probably take years, but they'll have to start somewhere and I think everyone in his right mind can agree upon the fact that OGBs should be removed, so that's a start. You know... morons. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 11:14:00 -
[209] - Quote
I can see both points of view on this one. Personally I would rather see things that are really broken such as Corp/POS Roles & permissions fixed first rather than this. |
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 11:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
posting in another lets dumb down eve becouse joe internetspaceship has a boosting alt they put aprox 6 months of training and cash into
welcome to alts online |
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